Thought you expressed contempt for experts. I have some knowledge of rigging but you can get ****ed

That's not very nice Rant! I was joking about the experts lighten up! ok some one that has some experience in the field!

I have noted the mast section above the headsail flexes quite a bit when pounding seas with a full main I geuss I should be reefed then With runners.

frant said..
Thought you expressed contempt for experts. I have some knowledge of rigging but you can get ****ed

That's not nice at all

You appear to have a problem

There is noone in this town that I can pay for decent tune up and advide thats why I post on here?!

Ps Still not the pic I'm looinb for but its gettin closer!

Southace, Bit hard to tell from the photographs but you might have a "hybrid" rig where the spreaders are swept back but the chainplates are directly athwartships of the mast. In that case runners are probably essential to prevent headstay sag. Do the runners originate at the hound or just below the hound. If so they would be to prevent sag and stop the mast from going over the front when running downwind. The backstay on a 7/8 rig wont hold the mast from going forward and over the front. Where is the strong point on your deck for the inner forestay and how high up the mast does it terminate. The inner forestay is probably used to fly the storm jib and prevent the mast from inverting when sailing deep reefed.

I have a triple spreader rig and am in the process of fitting a dyneema with chafe sleeve removable inner forestay and dyneema runners all luggage tagged to the second spreaders. That is for the storm jib. I can also use the same strong point on the deck to fly a spinacre staysail from the #2 genoa halyard.

I do recommend that you do a rig inspection. Take a magnifying glass with you and inspect every swage in detail. Just judging from the look of the tape on your spreader tips and the spreader tip covers themselves I would estimate that your rig is in quite good condition but if you dont check then you wont know. BTW when at sea/doing an ocean passage I do a visual inspection from deck level with binoculars everyday and go up the mast at least every few days. And I did go up the mast on the weekend for a rig inspection as well.

Ramona said..
The chain plates look well aft of the mast to me. looks like a good set up and I would leave it alone. The sails I would be looking at carefully. Main looks too full and the chord on that headsail is just weird.

What photo are you looking at? The only one I can see is the sideways top pic. Admitedly a bit of paralax error but don't see that the shroud base is that far aft. Did the original Adams design have swept back spreaders or a masthead rig with backstay?

Ramona said..
The chainplates look like they are directly under the lower spreader tips.

They look forward to me.

That is the topping lift that is slack the backstay is on tight. The speaders are swept back and chain plates are aft of the rig.

Well, if it is an Adams and the rig is original or close to it, why do you not talk to the possible designer Graham Radford about it?
He is a very helpful gentleman and l am sure if you ask him about the rig he is going to be helpful.
I have an Adams but mine is a mast head rig. I have an inner fore stay and runners in the height of the second spreader which l use with great success when the need arises. Also have an adjustable back stay to play with.
Cruising rig, no doubt, strong and reliable.
Your rig is not a classical cruising rig.

Southace, are you absolutely sure Icon is an Adams design?? Adams yachts are usually a bit fuller in the stern and the rig you have is not classic Adams.

No matter Adams or not, she is a classic yacht.

Remember the 34 ft yacht in Townsville a while ago that the broker and owner swore black and blue was an S&S but I know for a fact it was a Des Townson 34.

It would be good if you could trace her full history to eliminate any doubts.

No. I have been off the grog for over a month. Yes I have seen all the pics you have posted of Icon and I have to say I have not seen another Adams yacht like her.

Do you know of any sister ships to Icon??

HG02 said..

frant said..
Thought you expressed contempt for experts. I have some knowledge of rigging but you can get ****ed

That's not nice at all

You appear to have a problem

Touch of 'Murphy's Dog' syndrome maybe.

I think AloaHugo has it right. Just going off the spreader angle, it does appear as if your sweep is comparatively low for a rig of this type, and the topmast is not stiff enough to allow the backstay to provide significant support. As Aloa says, when you bend a rig like this with the backstay the distance from the mast base to the hounds reduces, which therefore increases forestay sag.

Chucking on some simple runners shouldn't be a big problem. However, some riggers note that if taken to the rail at the quarters, they can exert a twisting force on the mast that can be problematic for aft-swept rigs. You may be better off taking them to the stern at the centreline, but that does put them in the way to a greater extent.

A set of jumper struts is another possibility - they will transmit backstay tension to forestay tension quite effectively.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with the topmast pumping in a seaway - on some boat the mast is meant to flex in each gust to depower the main, and such rigs may also pump when they hit a wave. It's all a matter of tuning the rig tension to achieve the effect you prefer.

While some may not like them for cruising, these swept spreader rigs actually seem to be extremely reliable in use (although I'm only judging from what I've seen and the reasons that boats pull out of offshore races, not from any proper statistical data). Sure, they can bounce a bit but that's probably working as a form of shock absorber.

One thing about these rigs is that the tension on just about every stay has a considerable effect all through the rig. So if you increase the tension on the lower diagonals, you will need more backstay tension to bend the mast to flatten the mainsail. That MAY stop the mast from pumping and MAY tighten the forestay, but those factors can depend on the stiffness of the topmast. Many older boats had long topmasts (like yours and mine) and often on these rigs when you increase backstay tension the mast just bends at the top and no significant extra force passes to the forestay and lower mast. In contrast, modern swept-spreader fractional rigs normally have shorter and stiffer topmasts, which means that the backstay tension affects the forestay tension more accurately and directly. Modern racing yachts also tend to have flatter sails in low-stretch film, which means that they can be set up for a smaller range of mast bend since you are not trying to compensate for sailcloth stretch. So techniques that work for modern rigs may not work for this rig.