I'd hazard a guess, the original rudder broke, and the cost/complexity to repair it became to much, so a decision was made to replace it with a transom hung rudder.

I understand many were built by Geoff Baker at Fibreglass Yachts which had an address at Mona Vale, NSW. He was from Melbourne before that.

According to Sailboatdata: "Formit Fibreglass purchased the molds from Fibreglass Yachts in 1972 and produced the last eight Mk 1's. Then by late 1972 the Mk 2's and in 1980 began building the Mk3's. By late 1985 continuous production of the Mark 3 had ceased with only a few one-offs being produced until the last one was sold in 1990."

Hi thanks for the feedback...no, I think original...it's interesting, I have now pictures of two other Tophats with Transom hung rudders...both in Qld. Mine was built at Coombabah ..partly completed 1984 and surveyed then for insurance. My rudder is quite different...in an aluminium frame so can be lifted out but the bxxxxy
aluminium has 'grown' jamming it...that's maybe a rudder-off repair. Had boat surveyed in last work (last month/this month)

I asked the shipwright to check out the foredeck as some spring in one area....and some axxxhole had put
a hole in the bow...over $1000 to repair ...and no. .he/she didn't leave a 'contact me at so and so and I'll pay repairs'.

I asked the shipwright to put a 25 mm hole in the GPR below and drain any water. He did so but all was /is dry.
The core is however rotten and by the look of it someone has done what I call 'a shxt' repair...injecting stuff through various holes. Oh Nooo!...I have read their numerous excited claims...for me it's b/s. It may stop the springing, yes but it's still 'b/s'...vacuum pumps gorilla glue ...and so on. Do the bloody job properly I prithee.

Some people swear by it injection repairs...to me it is just a 'tweak'. I don't want it solid with numerous epoxy pillars, voids and stress points ...so I am going to have to pay a motza for a proper rebuild and reinforcement for the windlass.

Were I not 'clapped-out" from injuries and some illness I'd do it myself...I'm a good tradesman...and fussy..."do it once do it well' ..so I'll pay...I'll pay...I'll pay ..I'll pay...I'll pay (echoes?...no just the endless billing) , I was not married long but this is dearer than having a wife!! The money will never be recovered of course but the boat will be as good as they come... and sound.

I have spent a LOT of money on the boat since purchase...and it was not in bad shape; I just like things "100%".

Oh...getting back to your replies I can send pictures of all three if you email me at say. [email protected].

I am still searching for one of the transom rudder'd , the other I found a few days ago. I am helping the owner with a rudder problem.

Both those Qld moored boats have rudders quite similar each to the other. That doesn't 'per-se' mean they were built by same person but it's a strong possibility.

As Blue Moon says could be from skeg damage in the past but I have a feeling they were also original...some people preferred the transom mounting for their racing, others say 'doesn't make much difference they are very agile anyway'.

Yara raises the 'where hulls constructed'. Yes... In chasing the history I found the sailmaker who worked
locally, as an apprentice, when the shipwright circa 1980's ordered sails for some Tophats. Later the apprentice bought the sailmaker business and is still going in Qld. The boat was built for a bloke inland...as he had an "M.S." mailbox...like our NSW "RMB". His family are distant from him emotionally for some reason ...'didn't know grandpa very well' (he's also now deceased) though I am trying to find one possibly-communicative older relative...the only one mentioned. It's possible the hulls and cabin came from one of the known makers...certainly
mine is in good shape according to the surveyor.

According to the last owner but one, a Company Director who'd had it for 13 years... the mooring was checked every year. I suspect he either lied or was deluded as the business said to be annually checking the mooring said it was last done 10 years earlier. Great!! The bloke I bought it from also did not have the mooring checked in his couple of years owning it....as soon as the lift began it just broke at the concrete block...all rusted away.

The first eight months I owned it was a bloody nightmare...5 months off the mooring closed up for total re-rigging and other work...should have been a fortnight. Mooring broke away as soon as lifting began...new mooring...boat brought back and placed on wrong mooring...Issues with Maritime then and the Mooring owner...peaceably resolved, owner said I could use it for a month but after three weeks his boat was ready. New mooring done that day... then cut deliberately (I think I know by whom) and boat went drifting down the creek picked up by maritime and put on their mooring...another new mooring laid. (so far $2800 for that. Nearly $5000 for rigging .... I also found later he charged for materials and work he did not use.(e.g. wind direction indicator ) .or fit as invoiced and some extraneous, promised, work...a shroud and other not done ....maybe that's why he ignored every text, phone call and email thinking perhaps I 'knew"...when I didn't. I paid as usual on invoice...

While 'off mooring" for month was another $2700...with a substantial overcharge...on top of anti-foul ($1500 with paint...and I supplied paint..!) and a couple of other minor things. On that basis I was about $500-$700 screwed. I'll not go there as there was disappointment.

I was a contractor to a marina years ago and have a pretty good idea of times...

Boat finally returned. Cleaning $2000...plus I did the internal work from the boat closed up for 5 months, all done with natural oils... add $600.00 plus drive from Qld to Sydney and from Mooney to Lane cove each day for a fortnight...say $1800 (not the boat's fault...or Neptunes) . I increased ventilation as well.

I'd decided better away from 'once paid totally uncommunicative' Woolwich/Drummoyne area 'fixers ......New Maritime mooring charges plus $1200 mooring. laid (better price by $200.00 new muffler fitted $1000.00, donation to rescue..$500.(my choice they would have been happy with $200)...most recent costs $7200 including survey ..,with that bloody GST....plus $540 mooring fees...The deck will be several thousands...One day someone is going to buy a bloody-good Tophat at a lot less than it has cost me.

The shipwright I used was however the cheapest for the antifoul...in one case $2400 cheaper...the other $800 cheaper and the bloke I used...unlike the others didn't need it insured to lift it. I had to do some days of searching to find him and suss-out insurers. It's a closed loop...to lift boat must be insured...to be insured must be surveyed...to be fully surveyed must lift boat...to lift boat....and around and around we go.... I have not owned a boat for 45 years ...obviously I didn't learn well enough back then!!..just too thick really.

It was $350.00 cheaper to have him anti-foul and survey than the next cheapest quote....actually that's misleading the next cheapest place would have been $1500 dearer with survey and the rip-off around the corner would have been over $3000 dearer...

Has my luck turned?...is Neptune mellowing?...well...once foredeck done there's nothing left to do to my boat unless I repaint it...If only I was a barrister and could tax it all off as 'conferences'.

So...if only I could write "and then we lived happily ever after"...now you want pictures of transom rudder'd Tophats?...email me.?

Oh bananbender....how cruel a presumption!! ...meanwhile back at the ranch...I have since btw found two other transom rudder'd Tophat 25's...in Qld...Same type rudder as each other. very different from mine..The owner of one whom I did a lot to help refused to give me any information,name of boat or rego. Maybe I look like a Beagle Boy...? From the anti-foul end of 2024 I have found under the old paint "my" old Qld Registration.

Back to 'rudders'
The Shipwright says there is no sign of an earlier "normal" Tophat rudder having been swung from the keel. The other two with the similar rudders will surely have been done from the one build...and why are both in Qld...the plot thickens. It seems...and I am not fame-claiming...that until I started making inquiries about my own transom mounted rudder it was of no interest to other owners...until one sent a picture of one 'somewhere in Qld '(I later discovered it) and found another...Perhaps history of these boats has not been very broad, or interested in the 'oddballs" (boats I mean...not owners). If anyone sees a transom rubbered Tophat 25 (anywhere) please get pictures and details and send on to me at [email protected]

My vessel was built at Coombabah but maybe the hull was brought up from NSW (maybe Wyong)..the first survey was done in 1984(Coombabah) with the boat unfinished. Whilst looking to my inexperienced eye (the other is ok) like a Mk2 it may be a Mk3 without using the p/st single windows...which I quite dislike ..(no intention at discrimination). It had inboard engine then. The shat on the engine in there has a shaft so long the normal rudder would not be possible.

November 2024 I had an electric toilet installed about $1600 (but without electrics which I will do). I didn't insure it immediately as was really p/o'd that quoted insurance doubled after a clean survey "oh the premiums increased just after you were quoted"....what to double???... In the next few weeks it goes in for front deck core rebuild . I am not into injection repairs...see it as engineering 'b/s.'

I asked shipwright to put a 50mm holesaw (yes 'carefully...I am a fitter by one trade...) through the inside partitioning and drain any water....It turned out there were (under the roof carpet)...numerous holes in the lining...Yes it was dry but the deck not taught...a little springy...I would not be prepared to do an injection job and sell the boat as sound....others would, I realise..

It was never intended the core would be a mix of foam /decayed plywood and copious resin sitting on an inner lining. The correct repair is (working from cabin), neatly of course, cut out lining...scrape out and grind all the crap...fill the void using marine ply sheeting of 3, 4 or 4.5 mm thickness...my first choice would be 3mm... which will bend to take the designer-intended deck curve using several sheets. but the shipwright will decide... Freshwater seeping even a few droplets starts the rot...much water-blocking care has to be taken using fixing into or through the deck.

That repair will outlast the rest of the boat I suppose...I will be increasing and widening reinforcement for the anchor winch so a horizontal-shaft motorised winch could be layer installed....horizontal to drop chain into anchor locker. .

I replaced the solar panel with two others and two controllers...which also looks a lot tidier than 'the original'...I'll never leave my electronics on board...someone from Qld might climb on board. (heheheheheh)....I may have said I kindly let the rigger from an area beginning with "W" know he had charged me for parts and work he hadn't done....astoundingly...would you believe it?? ..he didn't reply!...whatever happened to honorable crooks?

So there we are. I will never recover the money I have spent nor use the boat often enough to sort of 'amortise' it....someone probably soon, will get a good boat without hidden faults.

A reason to transom hang the rudder, could be to eliminate weather helm. However, weather helm is a safety feature. More likely it was related to the engine installation.

Pythagorus said..

BlueMoon said..
I'd hazard a guess, the original rudder broke, and the cost/complexity to repair it became to much, so a decision was made to replace it with a transom hung rudder.

I do...I put an email address in my recent reply to the visionary "bananabender"...would you like some photos?

???

Now, as to being built in QLD, that is not correct. But fit out is.
Formit did build about 6 hulls and separate decks at one stage, but had so much trouble with owners putting the decks together that they stopped the sale of separate hulls and decks. I'm pretty certain, from your description, that your hull and deck may have been put together and fitted out in QLD or alternatively a hull, with deck attached, was purchased from Formit and fitted out in QLD. The internal fit out by purchaser's was not uncommon, even for Baker built Mk 1's.
Just to give some perspective on this, in the 1970's you could buy a 2 bed Unit in the eastern suburbs with water views for the price of a sail away new Top Hat. A hull and deck for fit out would save a fair bit if you could do the work yourself.
With the two QLD TH's with stern hung rudders, there may have been some connection when they were fitted out. There is actually no advantage with a stern hung rudder on a Mk 2 or 3. [Not possible on a Mk 1 because of the stern lift out panel.]
The Top Hat you spoke of on the Goldcoast was owned by, how can I put this...., anyway it was eventually seized by Maritime Safety QLD and auctioned off about two months ago as an abandoned boat. I don't know who the new owner is.
By the way, if your forward hatch is raised, its a Mk 2. If the hatch is flush with the cabin top it is a Mk 3. Which is yours?