D3 said..
So, a PFD isn't going to stop you from falling into the water, it's only going to be of benefit once you're in the water.
No surprise there, but if you don't wear one and then fall in, it's not going to help you while it's still on the boat.
Chris, if you're going to quote statistics and make big statements about the risks of dying while yachting, I'm going to need to see those stats.
Also, would be interested to see what the stats show about survivability once you're in the water PFD versus no PFD.
There are so many different types of PFD's out there, most people should be able to find one that suits them and the activities they pursue, so that when that one missed step, unexpected wake, broken tiller or bit of gear lets go and you end up in the drink you're much more likely to be picked up.
In response to your last statement alone, I would like to see your evidenced based claim that as a yachtsperson the wearing of PFD's does not decrease your risk of ......? (your made a very broad claim, risk of what?) You're the one making the claim so the burden of proof lies with you.
The mandatory wearing of PFD's surely hasn't had the same dramatic impact on loss of life as the introduction of mandatory wearing of seatbelts in cars, but I'd very, very surprised if it was completely insignificant.
Actually D3, the original poster was the one making the big statements, not me. He was the one telling us what to do, with an exclamation mark.
Since I am not the one telling people what to do, the burden of proof does not lie with me. However, I may as well say that my research in this area includes, for example, being in the water in MOB exercises; doing other research such as talking to Barry Bonds (if I recall his name correctly) the former US Navy officer who was US Sailing's head of safety about their PFD policy; and a lot of other research on MOB incidents and statistics. On top of that, I created a submission on PFD use for windsurfers that included, among other research, discussing the issue with the technical experts at Life Saving Australia. Roads and Maritime publicly said that it was well researched and convincing - so much so that they backtracked on laws they had publicly proposed. I attended much of the '98 Sydney-Hobart inquest, and have been at a memorial service for sailors I knew. At uni, I did a research piece on Standards Australia's faulty certification of MOB gear, including researching the issue with Tony Mooney from Yachting Australia and Standards Australia staff and going through the minutes of their meetings. So I think it is fair to say that MOB safety, which has interested me almost my whole life since my father was lost as a MOB when I was three years old, is something that I have a vague idea about.
I don't have a copy of the stats I worked on when I calculated the chances of death while sailing compared to the normal chance of death. However, why since I am not the one telling people what to do, I assume that you can fill us in on some of the MOBs that have occurred to yachtspeople in Australia. To throw a few around, off the top of my head of course there's Ron Robertson in a CYCA race about 1957; the couple who both ended up in the ocean in a WA race about 1978; LJ off WO (name withheld) off Cronulla in a CYCA race about 1998; the more recent A10 incidents and the one involving a 45'-ish IMS boat in Port Phillip. Overseas, of course, we have the Obsession tragedy in the 1978 SORC; Duncan Monroe-Kerr in a RORC race in about 1989; the Maitenes II incident; and of course the triple tragedy in the 1926 (I think) Transat. I'll give you some more any time you like if you to see evidence that I'm aware of MOB incidents.
I think that roll call may give a clue about my knowledge of MOB incidents; of course there are many more. But the fact is that if you take the MOB incidents involving yachts over the last couple of decades and then count the number of boats doing Cat 1-3 races alone, and then multiply the number of person/days involved and how rare the incidents are, you will see that even before PFD use became at all common, there were very, very, very few deaths from people going overboard from yachts.
Incidentally, this is backed up very strongly by the UK reports. Sailing is about as popular in the UK as it is in Australia (reference, Sport England Active People survey just to show I'm not making it up) and in 2018 just 3 of the 263 people who drowned were sailing; they may have been on yachts, dinghies or whatever. To put it in context, a whacking 93 managed to drown while running or walking along the coasts, rivers, bays and canals. In 2017 one person drowned while sailing - the same number as drown in the bath each of the last two years. I spend more time sailing than in the bath so according to that statistic I should wear a PFD in the bath!
Some of the stats used in Oz can also be very misleading, by the way - some say that most people who drowned did not wear lifejackets but omit to mention that many people who drowned were swimming for fun in inland rivers, often while drunk. Such deaths, like those involving capsized runaboats, are not evidence that sober sailors on yachts need to wear PFDs all the time.
When the evidence for full-time PFD use while yachting is that weak, and people who do not know how much time other individuals spend in the water and how well they can swim or get themselves back aboard, there seems to be no reason for people to tell everyone else to wear a PFD. By the way I started wearing a MOB light when ocean racing in 1979, when they were almost unknown, and I've worn a helmet sailing. I'm NOT against safety - no one would be when they have lost a parent overboard and been involved in unsuccessful searches for people they knew - but being rational means that we take preventative measures that are measured against the risks we face. Being lost overboard is, for many of us, a vanishingly small risk and our safety efforts should arguably go elsewhere.
One other point, I may note, is that MOB discussions have come up in forums like this one it's apparent that many people haven't shown that they can get back on board their own boats or get someone else aboard, and many of them have no recovery gear. Many people don't know the angle at which to recover a MOB with hypothermia. One of my concerns is that concentrating on wearing a PFD may be distracting people from such issues, just as it may distract them from looking out for the wakes or booms that can put them in the water - a place that can be perfectly safe if well prepared, or deadly even if wearing a PFD.