Which Gennaker cut - Radial, Tri Full? .....Help!

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Datawiz
Datawiz
VIC
605 posts
VIC, 605 posts
6 Oct 2012 8:46am
Hi Guys,
My $$$$ pit is a 34ft Catalina. I've decided to get a cruising spinnaker (ie a Gennaker).
F**East Sails have quoted me for Radial Head, Tri or Full Radial cut.
I don't know enough to decide which cut is best for me - so any input on this much appreciated.
Thanks all
Allan.
HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
6 Oct 2012 2:18pm
Don't you just love jargon. To get the discussion rolling and hoepfully get some suggestions on which is best for your application you might care to look at the diagrams of the three different types described in this Rolly Tasker webpage. You can see the difference in the lower part of the sail. http://www.velasrollytasker.es/tips/mps/d1.html

According to the Rolly Tasker site, "The Full Radial design is the most popular choice and strongest construction. The radial shaped panels fan out from the three corners Head, Clew and Tack and run throughout the sail. The Tri-Radial layout, which has horizontal panels in the middle, is eligible for smaller sails with lower loads. This construction is less expensive in production because it is easier to manufacture and cloth can be used more efficiently."

The answer to your question may well be in defining for yourself what you intend to use it for (racing or cruising and range of wind speed) and therefore knowing what loads it will be under, deciding how large a range of wind angles you want it to handle versus whether you can justify the cost difference for the type of construction.
HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
6 Oct 2012 2:32pm
I have a North sails gennaker on my Northshore 33 which was therewhen I bought the oat 6 years ago. It hadn't been used and still hasn't although I am planning to start this summer. So I will be interested to see what type of construction it is. If you are planning on using a gennaker with a furling headsail you might consider this nifty accessory from ATN .www.atninc.com/atn-tacker-sailing-equipment.shtml
If anyone has any experience with these tackers I would be interested in feedback as I am considering buying one.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
6 Oct 2012 6:34pm
Datawiz said...

Hi Guys,
My $$$$ pit is a 34ft Catalina. I've decided to get a cruising spinnaker (ie a Gennaker).
F**East Sails have quoted me for Radial Head, Tri or Full Radial cut.
I don't know enough to decide which cut is best for me - so any input on this much appreciated.
Thanks all
Allan.




Contact Tony Bull at Bull sails in Geelong, he is Galatea on these forums. He was having a special on full radial spinnakers made in a stock range of colours and sizes made by CSF a few weeks back. Chinese Sail Factory. Find him on Facebook or here
bullsails.blogspot.com/
You wont get a better sail or deal.
Fastfrogy
Fastfrogy
NSW
9 posts
NSW, 9 posts
9 Oct 2012 2:22am
Bully is a good mate of mine.... I also have a sail import business in Sydney relatively new, as with Tony I have over 20 yrs in the sailmaking industry. There are a lot of benefits buying locally and from a qualified sailmaker even if they have not manufactured it in Oz.. Ie back up support when it goes wrong!!! And it often does with the very cheap sails from these asian sailmakers who have been know to use very low grade materials.
Email me ur F**** East price.. I should be very competitive... At the end of the day it all depends on what you want out of your sails...
[email protected]
Ps... I am also happy to help out any one that needs any info on spinnaker socks such as the ATN

Cheers
Shaun
Galatea
Galatea
VIC
119 posts
VIC, 119 posts
9 Oct 2012 10:25am
Thanks Ramona for the referral, hope the new genoa is doing the job.
I am contactable on [email protected]. many thanks
I have done a lot of Catalina 34 sails in the past and have the spinnaker sizes on file.
Recent referral for a Catalina 34 Full Radial we did for a client in SA

Hi Tony,

Finally got out on the water yesterday in about 10 knots and up the new kite went!

its magnificent and so easy for a couple of old farts to use

We were doing 6 knots plus in 6 knots apparent at about 120”

Thanks a lot

Lou and Peter

“Ikati”
HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
12 Oct 2012 6:24am
The commercials are fine but what was the informed answer to the question. For the Catalina 33 is it worth the cost of a full radial throughout the sail or will the tri radial with some horizontal strips in the middle do or will just radial at the head with the rest horizontal strips suit?
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
12 Oct 2012 8:22am
HaveFun said...
The commercials are fine but what was the informed answer to the question. For the Catalina 33 is it worth the cost of a full radial throughout the sail or will the tri radial with some horizontal strips in the middle do or will just radial at the head with the rest horizontal strips suit?


Go to the North sail page and check out their diagrams.
www.au.northsails.com/SailProducts/CruisingSails/Gennakers/tabid/623/language/en-US/Default.aspx
Hyde sails at http://www.hydesails.com.au/Tri-Radial-Spinnakers-and-Asymmetrics.html
I have 5 spinnakers, mostly radial head. The gennaker is the only one I use which I can manage single-handed. Its a Lee brand [Australian] and its a fairly simple cut. The designs of gennakers have certainly moved on since it was built mainly due to computers. Some of the designs look brilliant and I'm sure a lot is due to marketing.
I would look on eBay and buy a cheapy first and or do some dumpster diving. If you decide to buy Chinese talk to Tony first.
Galatea
Galatea
VIC
119 posts
VIC, 119 posts
12 Oct 2012 10:18am
HaveFun said...
The commercials are fine but what was the informed answer to the question. For the Catalina 33 is it worth the cost of a full radial throughout the sail or will the tri radial with some horizontal strips in the middle do or will just radial at the head with the rest horizontal strips suit?


The difference between the two cuts should be minimal. The full Radial will maybe use a 4-5 metres more cloth and about an hour of extra manufacturing? So the cost diffrence should be $100-150 for a boat this size. On the proviso both sails are cut from the same cloth and the finishing details (corners, tapes etc) are the same. I would suggest go the full radial.
CoolRunnings
CoolRunnings
NSW
159 posts
NSW, 159 posts
12 Oct 2012 11:28am
HaveFun said...
I have a North sails gennaker on my Northshore 33 which was therewhen I bought the oat 6 years ago. It hadn't been used and still hasn't although I am planning to start this summer. So I will be interested to see what type of construction it is. If you are planning on using a gennaker with a furling headsail you might consider this nifty accessory from ATN .www.atninc.com/atn-tacker-sailing-equipment.shtml
If anyone has any experience with these tackers I would be interested in feedback as I am considering buying one.


CoolRunnings
CoolRunnings
NSW
159 posts
NSW, 159 posts
12 Oct 2012 11:41am
CoolRunnings said...
HaveFun said...
I have a North sails gennaker on my Northshore 33 which was therewhen I bought the oat 6 years ago. It hadn't been used and still hasn't although I am planning to start this summer. So I will be interested to see what type of construction it is. If you are planning on using a gennaker with a furling headsail you might consider this nifty accessory from ATN .www.atninc.com/atn-tacker-sailing-equipment.shtml
If anyone has any experience with these tackers I would be interested in feedback as I am considering buying one.





Greetings-I have a NS 33 with a couple of kites,one being a Norths MPS.Given that you normally set your spinnaker behind the unfurled Genoa and likewise shelter the spinnaker behind the same during the drop,I would think the 'Tacker' device a nuisance.I have a simple block and tackle to set the tack of our MPS on and it has worked fine for me in the last 13 years.
Overall,I still prefer the standard kite set-up on a pole which allows you to run more angles from shy through to square and is no great inconvenience.You do not need 'lazy' sheets/braces on a 33 and I simply end for end the pole during jibing.
Anyway,Good luck playing with your kite this summer!
kenif
kenif
VIC
45 posts
VIC, 45 posts
12 Oct 2012 2:22pm
Hey Guys we should hijack this thread to NS 33 spinnakers.

I too have a NS 33.
I have a couple of Spinnakers and also a MPS/Assy which I have yet to take out of the bag.
However this Sunday with a forecast on Port Phillip of 5-10knts I will.
I intend to use the downhaul run through a caribinner attached to the pupit hardware at deck level . This will provide me with a degree of trim at the tack.

I will also attach a lazy sheet long enough to go from the clew to the 'lazy winch' so I can gybe from the cockpit.

I have studied the 'tacker' and thoguh initially impressed I know thing why?
Galatea
Galatea
VIC
119 posts
VIC, 119 posts
12 Oct 2012 3:25pm
kenif said...
Hey Guys we should hijack this thread to NS 33 spinnakers.

I too have a NS 33.
I have a couple of Spinnakers and also a MPS/Assy which I have yet to take out of the bag.
However this Sunday with a forecast on Port Phillip of 5-10knts I will.
I intend to use the downhaul run through a caribinner attached to the pupit hardware at deck level . This will provide me with a degree of trim at the tack.

I will also attach a lazy sheet long enough to go from the clew to the 'lazy winch' so I can gybe from the cockpit.

I have studied the 'tacker' and thoguh initially impressed I know thing why?


Good luck with it, it is wise to have tack adjustment. let in run out downwind for more a spinnaker shape. pull it on when reaching to make assy more genoa like. The tacker has one main benefit, it hold the tack of the spinnaker close to the centreline of the boat. On some assy's that fly well above the pulpit (good thing for cruising visibility)the tack can sag away to leeward when loaded up reaching. The downside is they are another thing to hook up and need to have genoa furled to setas mentioned earlier. They are pretty easy to fire off before the drop though, they don't load up much when you bear away for drop. I enjoy using an assy cruising without the mainsail up, you can just run very square without worryng about the blanket effect of the main.
kenif
kenif
VIC
45 posts
VIC, 45 posts
12 Oct 2012 8:38pm
Tony

Thanks for that.

It looks as though I will also rig another caribinner at the top of the piulpit to raise the level.
This will depend on the cut of the assy, the length of the down haul and also the strength of the pulpit!

Ah the joys of single handing in a double handed race, if I don't put up some type of kite I might as well stay in bed.
HaveFun
HaveFun
NSW
201 posts
NSW, 201 posts
17 Oct 2012 10:08am
Thanks for all that experience on rigging spinnakers on NS33s. Very helpful.
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