41 posts
hi to all
im about to take the plunge on my first keel boat and was hoping to get some advice from the more experienced here.
a broker told me its customary to sign up to a contract at the asking price, but it is subject to satisfactory survey + test sail etc. if im not happy with either, i can back out or negotiate a lower price, wholly at my discretion.
is that the normal process ?? i was thinking it would be more normal to open with a "discounted" offer and move on from there ??
And on that topic, is there a rule of thumb discount ? i know there is no "rule" but if someone is asking say 50k, or a 100k, should i expect a 5% or a 10% discount ?? or is it just too hard to generalise that like ??
my thanks for any help
cheers
m
QLD
1156 posts
Don't listen to him. Its a buyer's market.
Don't sign anything until you are certain its the boat you want at the price you want to pay, then use the survey to be sure everything is OK and to negotiate a better price.
Most people ask a bit more than they are willing to accept but there is nothing wrong with paying the asking price for the right boat.
NSW
2711 posts
While not a rule I have usually advised offering about 30% under asking price (It was less a buyers market when I bought Morning Bird than it is now and I paid $37,000 against an asking price of $64,000) but as you get experience you get to know what is a good buy.
Don't rush the purchase, as Cisco says the most important thing is to get the right boat. If you pay a bit more and it is the right boat it doesn't matter. If you get a bargain for the wrong boat it is still the wrong boat. You will also get a good feel whether the price asked matches others and if sellers/brokers are getting desperate.
In particular, if you intend sailing offshore make sure your boat is safe offshore. An offshore boat can do the cocktail boat duty (maybe not as well) but the cocktail boat might be dangerous offshore. I bought a Duncanson 26, a roomy fixed keel 26 footer from a very good Australian designer/builder, some years ago thinking pottering around Sydney harbour is all I wanted to do. 3 years after I got it I was sick of Sydney harbour and wanted to go further afield. The little Dunc was hopeless offshore, far to tender for even a comfortable trip to Pittwater, so I sold it.
You might be surprised how quickly you gain confidence and want to venture further away from home base. If you get a harbour/inshore boat and in 2 years want to head out you will either have to sell and buy or take the risk in your inappropriate boat and place you, crew and potential rescuers in danger.
WA
855 posts
if the broker said you first sign a contract at the asking price and negotiate later, tell him to shove it and walk away, then later leave a note on the boat for the owner telling them about their dodgy broker.
You first agree on a price that you are happy to buy and the seller is happy to sell. You do this by submitting an offer via the broker, offers and counters go back and forth until you reach agreement. The contract is then drawn up at the agreed price. You may specify from your own inspection, certain things that may need to be rectified that can form terms of the contract.
After you agree on the price, you sign a contract stating the terms and pay a deposit, held in trust by the broker (like buying a house). The terms will include dates for surveys, settlement etc and will include a term stating you can pull out if the survey finds faults you are not happy with, nor cannot come to an agreement on. E.g, the surveyor may find faults, you can then either put it on the seller to rectify, accept them, negotiate a new price (and amend the contract) or pull out of the sale. It gives you protection, and because you are now in a contract, it stops the seller from selling to someone else, trying to change the price etc whilst you arrange survey etc.
Don't treat the survey as a bargaining tool. treat it as security in what you are buying. You should have a pretty good idea of how the survey is going to go before you sign up to it, your initial offer should reflect pretty much everything that needs doing. If you get a big surprise on faults from the survey, take that as a big warning on the whole deal.
A test sail occurs usually after you sign the contract and pay the deposit, but before you spend money on a survey. The theory is that it cuts out the crap, the seller and broker know you are serious, and should devote serious time to the test sail. And the buyer tests the truthfulness of what they are being sold. E.g the seller may say, yeah yeah, everything works a treat, or yeah I'll get that fixed, when you are first looking, but at the test sail stage, that yeah yeah becomes a test of the contract, the seller is bound by everything they said working a treat when you test it.
Just make sure the terms you want are in the contract. Allow plenty of time to arrange survey. Put in items you discover that need fixing. Allow time after survey to have things fixed before settlement date. Have survey and settlement dates noted in the contract. Include a detailed inventory list (spares, life jackets etc). Add terms such as "all instruments to be in serviceable working order", "all deck hardware to be in serviceable working order".
NSW
7757 posts
Keel kicker,
I would suggest you fill in a few details in your Bio. Then meet a few listers or acquaintances and have a face to face chat about buying a suitable boat. [Not a broker!]
It's a buyers market as everyone has said and it's always going to be from now on! All these boats for sale are not going anywhere in a hurry. Take your time. The biggest decision is what sort and size do you really need. Don't get saddled with someone else's nightmare.
