cheap ais/gps

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Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 2:14pm
What do people think of these cheap ais transponder/gps. i need both and it seems these are all that in 1 for about $600. thers a few different brands. i know nothing about these things.


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-3-Color-LCD-Class-B-AIS-Transponder-Combo-High-GPS-Navigator-HP-33A-CE-/281671095993?hash=item4194e7d6b9:g:TzQAAOSw7aBVF79a
andy59
andy59
QLD
1156 posts
QLD, 1156 posts
4 Jun 2016 2:49pm
You can get a GME transceiver for the same price. The only thing is it doesn't have a display.
nswsailor
nswsailor
NSW
1458 posts
NSW, 1458 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:04pm
I've got my AIS receiver set up to be seen on my chartplotter.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:27pm
nswsailor said..
I've got my AIS receiver set up to be seen on my chartplotter.


it seems this thing is a chart plotter and ais in 1?
nswsailor
nswsailor
NSW
1458 posts
NSW, 1458 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:35pm
Just had a look...did not see what charts it took? Does it take charts?
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:43pm
dunno!
LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
NSW, 2140 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:56pm
No charts in it, just a GPS and AIS xsponder
someday
someday
NSW
97 posts
NSW, 97 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:57pm
it seems this thing is a chart plotter and ais in 1?

No, the class A transponders, which are required for commercial mariners, are more expensive than the class B transponders targetted at recreational mariners. The class A transponders transmit at higher power and more frequently. Class A is listed in the "Offshore Special Regulations" as required for cat 0. So sure class A seems better, but hard to afford it. Maybe if you were rich enough you could look for a unit with more features, like a SART alarm:

www.oroliamaritime.com/products/mcmurdo-smartfind-m5-ais-class-a-transponder/

You will need a splitter, or if you don't care about the "Offshore Special Regulations" then I guess you could install a second VHF antenna at some other location. The splitter specs seem to say they can't handle class A, this one should work anyway:

digitalyacht.net/2014/03/27/isaf-offshore-special-regs-now-mandate-an-ais-splitter/

An alternative approach (which will be no good if you really want a transponder, but just letting you know of the option), is: instead of the transponder and the splitter, to change the VHF radio to one that includes an AIS receiver, such as the Standard Horizon Matrix GX2200 (the GX2200 would have to be imported from the USA, and is presumably not type approved in Australia, it was discussed on seabreeze a while ago).
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 4:45pm
I guess i dont really know what i want - well i do but i have no idea what stuff does what.

im preparing to sail up to QLD and beyond next year and i would like to 24 hour sail. i want boats to be able to see me and me them. Id also like a chartplotter. I was hoping there might be something all in one. i have a handheld garmin, navionics on phone and ipad. maybe i dont need a gps seeing as i already have a few. I will be chart plotting on paper charts using the dead reckoning system, deviation etc. id also like to rig up a windspeed thingo on the mast with the display for that on my plotter. i might be going a bit overboard with the things i want...might not need any of it. probably dont!

I guess my main concern is other ships at night
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 5:22pm
apps.apple.com/au/app/transas-isailor-marine-navigation/id398456162

seems like you can get apps for all this. this one looks like its free! gonna try it out.


RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
4 Jun 2016 3:44pm
SectorSteve,
I bought one of these ( www.thegpsstore.com/Standard-Horizon-GX2200-Matrix-AIS-with-GPS-P3968.aspx )from the GPS store a year or two ago and used the NMEA0183 to my laptop to overlay on the navigation package I have.
It has been fantastic and I highly recommend it. I know that the transceiver would be better, so if you want to go that way, then I would go with the GME and use the NMEA output to overlay on a plotter or computer with navigation software. For the record I use, and am impressed with the Nobeltec software on a windows 8 laptop. I used a standard RS232 to USB converter for AIS on one USB port and have a puck type GPS plugged into another. 5000 nautical miles without a glitch.
cheers
RiffRaff
SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
4 Jun 2016 5:52pm

i know very little about this . But i did read somewhere a few years ago that ......... a good option is to keep the ais separate from your radio antenna for a couple of reasons , ........... 1 ......... if mast head Ariel fails ais still works . 2 keeps coax cable clean , free of joins

Ais antenna on stern still works fine .as ships antenna is very high and can see low yacht ais antenna easily

all yachts should carry second Arial anyhow . ............
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
4 Jun 2016 6:21pm
that looks unreal. so does it blue tooth to your computer or something? or a cable. so you could have all the info go to a computer? so you use the nav software on the computer and this units gps together?
geez its cheap enough.
Lazzz
Lazzz
NSW
913 posts
NSW, 913 posts
4 Jun 2016 6:47pm
RiffRaff said..
I used a standard RS232 to USB converter for AIS on one USB port and have a puck type GPS plugged into another. 5000 nautical miles without a glitch.
cheers
RiffRaff



I'm interested to know how you connected it to your laptop using the RS232 to USB converter as well - I've had one of these radios for a while but haven't yet had a chance to play with it propely.

Do you run the NMEA 0183 wires into the RS232 end?????
RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
4 Jun 2016 5:47pm
The NMEA is the same as 232 it is 2 wire connected to a 9 pin din plug which plugs into the converter.
The converter will give the pin out in the instructions.
Just get one from your local computer shop or jaycar for around 40 bucks.
I had to run the cd that came with the converter to install the drivers. Was easier than I thought it would be.
Use sheilded cable, again get it from jaycar.
At the radio end i just crimped using the gel filled connectors
RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
4 Jun 2016 6:02pm
Remember you will need nav software to read the nmea ais sentences
Lazzz
Lazzz
NSW
913 posts
NSW, 913 posts
4 Jun 2016 8:05pm
RiffRaff said..
The NMEA is the same as 232 it is 2 wire connected to a 9 pin din plug which plugs into the converter.
The converter will give the pin out in the instructions.
Just get one from your local computer shop or jaycar for around 40 bucks.
I had to run the cd that came with the converter to install the drivers. Was easier than I thought it would be.
Use sheilded cable, again get it from jaycar.
At the radio end i just crimped using the gel filled connectors


Thanks for that - I have my project for tomorrow now :)

Not much else to do in this weather :(
Lazzz
Lazzz
NSW
913 posts
NSW, 913 posts
4 Jun 2016 8:07pm
RiffRaff said..
Remember you will need nav software to read the nmea ais sentences


Should work with OpenCPN
Kit3kat
Kit3kat
QLD
202 posts
QLD, 202 posts
4 Jun 2016 8:30pm
the AIS antenna doesnt have to be particularly high anyways. If the range it's crap its either a connection problem or a software problem.

We have a small backup laptop with its own small usb antenna (reciever only) and the range of that thing is already massive.
PhoenixStar
PhoenixStar
QLD
477 posts
QLD, 477 posts
5 Jun 2016 7:41am
Sectorsteve said..
I guess i dont really know what i want - well i do but i have no idea what stuff does what.

im preparing to sail up to QLD and beyond next year and i would like to 24 hour sail. i want boats to be able to see me and me them. Id also like a chartplotter. I was hoping there might be something all in one. i have a handheld garmin, navionics on phone and ipad. maybe i dont need a gps seeing as i already have a few. I will be chart plotting on paper charts using the dead reckoning system, deviation etc. id also like to rig up a windspeed thingo on the mast with the display for that on my plotter. i might be going a bit overboard with the things i want...might not need any of it. probably dont!

I guess my main concern is other ships at night


So other ships can see you - if they have a AIS receiver, and you can get an alert if other ships approach - if they have a transponder. Once upon a time, in the good old days before the war, a boat traveling from A to B would almost surely miss a boat traveling from B to A because DR navigation was not an exact science. But now they will both have their autopilots on GPS and set to travel the route, steering only a few meters off course, and the chance of collision is high. So, AIS or not, you really should not be traveling at night without a watch. In my not so humble opinion.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
5 Jun 2016 8:27am
Your most likely collision target will not have AIS. Amateur fishing boats and professionals are far more common than the odd merchant ship. Amateur fishing boats will be up to 60 miles wide of the shelf these days depending on what's hot. Modern technology has had a tremendous impact on game fishing.
RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
5 Jun 2016 8:46am
Agreed that not all targets will have AIS, it is a fact that a watch should always be maintained.
There are times however when cruising at night, that the lights can get confusing and the eyes play tricks. Having the additional string to you bow with AIS should not be discounted because people are afraid of or do not trust technology.
With this technology being available and the low cost to purchase and install, it would be crazy not to take advantage of it.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
5 Jun 2016 11:10am
i think its important to have. keeping watch more so and between the 2 youre managing the risk of hitting something as much as you can i think. the thought of hitting something or running aground at night really isnt a pleasant thought. id say its every sailors worst nightmare.

Im still tryna get my head around electronics and how to do it.

I really like that tac tic stuff that uses bluetooth from the top of the mast to the solar units.windseed, COG. No wires and they clip in to brackets you mount. When racing the skipper of the boat i race on has them. i know wind speed may not be as necessary, but id like it to help me make decisions on sail area etc whilst underway.

atm im thinking that matrix unit you bought- riff raff

laptop with charts, connected to that unit.

Ipad for navionics and hand held garmin.

can i connect through nmea wind data to a programme on computer instead of getting the tac tic gear?




RiffRaff
RiffRaff
WA
265 posts
WA, 265 posts
5 Jun 2016 9:51am
I believe most equipment nowadays has NMEA output.
Keep in mind that with the NMEA0183 you can only have 1 talker and multiple listener's. If you want multiple NMEA0183 talkers to one listener then you will need some kind of multiplexer. I think NMEA2000 can have multiple talkers and listeners but the hardware is a bit more expensive
sirgallivant
sirgallivant
NSW
1531 posts
NSW, 1531 posts
5 Jun 2016 11:56am
This post is more of philosophising on a Sunday morning about the human condition in our modern age than criticism of AIS and it's users!
I appreciate the merits of technology, AIS, ebay and our quickening life, whoever, l do not like all aspects of it or necessarily agree with it.

One should be careful of 'cheap', or unknown brands sold by lesser known companies on ebay. I rather buy stuff from an established well known manufacturer and distributor with tangible warranty and after service for twice the price of the cheap stuff, than waste my dosh on something, that might turn out to be a flop.
(Like sails. If l could not look into the sailmakers eyes and shake his hands, he could give me his wares at ninety per cent discount, l still would not touch it with a barge pole.)

Did any of you, esteemed members, ever try to validate a warranty on ebay, return or exchange goods made and distributed by an unknown entity? I am way too suspicious and paranoid about situations like that.

The kerfuffle about those Harken bits offered !'cheaply'! springs to mind. How many of us got sucked in? When are we going to see our money back? If we ever get it back. And that was an Aussie company, next door.
What if it was from China, Timbuctoo or whoknowswhere?

The hype and peer pressure of 'must have now!' is at such forte this days in all aspects of life, that soberly thinking people are hassled into superfluous purchases, just because they thought at the spur of the moment, they must have it and they could afford it.
In the name of safety and self preservation we are induced to spend our money in ways it seldom benefits the customer but constantly rewards the seller.

The new hype about AIS is one of the most poignant examples. While it's initial merit is unquestionable it's necessity is not. One could navigate without it the next age and more, following the old rules of good seamenship, and live to tell a tale. Even a single handed cruiser, who obviously will not be able to monitor everything 24/7. He is going to be dog tired, as single handers ofter are, not to wake for that alarm, just once...

By the way. Ww is selling the SHMGX2200 for 650 bucks. Ww. Cattledog page13, 69714N
I was told, this is one of the best brands on the yankee market today. (If you believe the hype?!)

The same units were on offer at the CCCofA's presentation night few months back for 400 bucks with some trimmings.




Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
5 Jun 2016 12:28pm
I've got a friend sailing from Europe to nz right now. It's taking him a while. Minimal cash.only been sailing a short time. 28 foot steel boat. Hand held GPS only, no Nav skills. On his approach to Barbados , a few days out he realised he didn't even have the cards for his GPS for that area. He used a compass and the sun instead. He made it no problem. He's encountered a fair few problems. As someone said here before , you start with a big bag of luck(hopefully) and a small bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck runs out. Great analogy. I worry about my mate dean on this trip .hes been really lucky. He even lost his boat in the canaries when it slipped off its mooring, his wind vane keeps breaking. He keeps having steering problems. Engine problems. But hes getting there. He's about to go through the Panama Canal.
even though he's doing it and I respect that he's doing it. It's inspiring. I'd prefer to be a bit more organised. Navigation skills, extra GPS. Back up steering, back ups for back ups where possible. He's got a really really strong boat and in the med on his way to Mallorca he got hit with 50kn at a time where he had minimal experience. I guess the experience has given him- experience.
as far as buying things online and the bcf thing. Bcf refunded and gave the parts for nothing in the end. They even gave extra gift carDid. It cost them. Recently I sent a pair of sunnies to the usa to be re lensed. They stuffed it up and did it for nothing In the end. you're right though in regards to buyer confidence online. You can get stung. I have been. There is a risk, but lately I've been lucky. Bimini for 120. Can't beat that. I feel for some shop owners that haven't shifted to online selling- like friend of mine who have had shops for 20 years but haven't moved with the times. They're struggling and paying massive rents locked into 10 year leases. With online buying I guess you need to do a lot of research on a product and you'll get that product cheaper as you are cutting out a few middle men.
with electronics I know we don't need all the stuff. But my thinking is like this: if I'm really tired and it's night time, I'd like some aids. I'd like my ,instincts tto be alert also and this is something you really don't wanna lose, relying on tech gadgets. I'd like to think for the most part, I wouldn't use the electronics, to save power and because I'd hope to be confident enough to read the wind, weather, keep a look out etc. but for those times when conditions are testing, I'd like to be able to rest my brain that may not be coping too well and read whether the winds increasing to help me make a decision, and to see on screen if large container ships are bearing down on me in the middle of the night.

sirgallivant
sirgallivant
NSW
1531 posts
NSW, 1531 posts
5 Jun 2016 12:53pm
We see eye to eye on the stuff mentioned.
The biggest problem you might encounter on your trip north, as far as dc current on the boat is concerned, a week of shejty weather, like now, would render the solar panels useless.
If you got caught outside, a small genset might be desirable.
What quantity of solar panels and batteries are you planning to carry?

Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
5 Jun 2016 1:22pm
Im going 400 watts 200ah batteries.
id consider getting one of those little Honda gennys
morningsun
morningsun
179 posts
179 posts
5 Jun 2016 12:19pm


Hi S.S. Interesting A.I.S. unit you have linked to, it has a short if colourful history, mainly centered around its certification for use in the E.U.
Not sure on wether it has Aus certification.

I am adding some links, if anyone is considering fitting an A.I.S. then its well worth reading the comment by Ivan Silva, in the "Bill's stuff" blog, towards the end of the page, regarding signal loss in cables.
billlions.blogspot.com/2013/12/matsutec-hp-33a-43-marine-gps-ais.html

Other link is to YBW, where this subject has caused a bit of a ****fight.. if you follow the links to the various threads on it, but also some great info in how to link it to other equipment.
www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?385367-Matsutec-HP-33A-AIS-Transponder
FreeRadical
FreeRadical
WA
855 posts
WA, 855 posts
5 Jun 2016 1:09pm
I've mentioned in several times in other threads, but have a look at the Vespermarine XB-6000. It has inbuilt wifi gateway which allows NMEA data on iPads etc. Your iPhone or iPad become the display for AIS traffic And there are free apps to display NMEA data. If you use iNavX on the iPad (similar to Navionics), it overlays the AIS on the chart display. We have tacktick for wind and ST60 depth and speed. The tacktick requires the T122 module to connect into the network and pass wind info to the c120 plotter, autopilot, and vesper. The autopilot can then steer to AWA which is neat.

the vesper is not cheap, but you might find it all you need along with an iPad.
Sectorsteve
Sectorsteve
QLD
2195 posts
QLD, 2195 posts
5 Jun 2016 3:58pm
So it just uses Wifi? , sounds good. you recommend the tacktick for wind?

So you could use this unit, and just an ipad?

thinking out loud....aerial?, installation of this unit, and it uses wifi to talk to the ipad/computer? overlays the ais info on the chart plotter. i was just looking at inavX yesterday.
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