Grantmac said..
They mention the ends being glued on. I wonder if they will offer tuttle options or convertible like Fanatic does. Would make for a sweet windfoil cross over mast.

Hopefully they have the galvanic corrosion figured out, aluminum and carbon in constant contact are not a good mix.

I'm guessing they probably float at that weight too.

I has one of these. A real nice mast. I opted for Cedrus in the end-much stiffer with interchangable adaptors.

In response to your query-very different and competing companies that have very different masts.

That is indeed annoying. Unfortunately it's true no fuselage is the same. I have 2 black Axis fuse. One is tight one is loose. I wished NL made the adaptor in carbon as it's easy to fix and maintain by putting epoxy around. I've done this on my axis carbon mast to get a tighter fit.

I've a friend that has the same issue with his Axis fuse / Cedrus mast connection.

That's a worry with the NL, I have a to suite Takuma on order with a Stringy fuse.

I have a Cedrus mast and the connection to Axis fuses ( I have 3) and Lift are very good. We always see the bad news but sometimes the what we don't hear is that the majority have no issues.

the aluminum foil tape is the easiest solution. put a strip on one side of the fitting, install it and never think about it again. Get used to it, the only joints that won't have this problem to some extent are correctly designed taper fits. Unfortunately, taper fits are out of style - Takuma screwed theirs up so bad that it isn't actually a taper fit and gofoil never caught on.

What are people's experiences of the No Limitz masts when winging, especially the 93cm?

In particular, can anyone confirm that they aren't prone to ventilation which can be an issue with the masts from some brands.

I wasn't aware of ventilation until I used a mast with such an issue. I've used many different foils from many brands all without any issue.

I don't know what causes the mast to ventilate but I hate crashing for no obvious reason, especially at speed!

I'd like to know that ventilation isn't going to be a thing if I purchase a No Limitz mast.

TooMuchEpoxy said..

jondrums said..
the aluminum foil tape is the easiest solution. put a strip on one side of the fitting, install it and never think about it again. Get used to it, the only joints that won't have this problem to some extent are correctly designed taper fits. Unfortunately, taper fits are out of style - Takuma screwed theirs up so bad that it isn't actually a taper fit and gofoil never caught on.

Go foil even screwed theirs up!! My most recent RS wings required serious modification. Aguera says the tight fit is confusing to the less technically inclined. If your crafty enough to want a tight taper your crafty enough to make it tight yourself. Although I will say it's easier to make get a bad taper tight than a non taper.

Are you using an old mast from when GoFoil wings and masts were a matched set?

All ours fit well from knew and it is just time and wear they eventually requires an approach to enlarging the taper.

Hi everyone, Kyle with Project Cedrus here. There are two entries on my blog which are relevant to this discussion, so I wanted to share.

1) projectcedrus.com/cedrus-updates/adapter-shimming/
Regarding mast/fuselage interface/fit, there's no one to blame. It can be manufacturing, simple wear and tear, even environmental. To be honest it hast not been an issue with Cedrus, at least as reported to me, and I am in personal communication with nearly every one of my clients. I was on a kite trip in Baja when I noticed my Lift wings were starting to feel a little loose on my mast, and I started to get really nervous that I was going to have to recall 200+ lift adapters from around the world at this point which would probably put me out of business. I called Josh at the Foil Shop and he explained that all setups, even full OEM, can experience some "slop" at the connection. He recommended shimming with tape, and I've been good ever since. Only recently have other clients started coming forward, 1 in particular in Australia who was unhappy with the fit of his mast in Axis and Unifoil. I tried to help, but he was not happy with the need to shim. I respect his decision. I have another client in SoCal with 4 masts and I don't even know how many adapters and he's constantly sanding/grinding them to get a perfect fit. I get that some feel a $1,200-$1,300 mast should be a perfect fit every time, but I can tell you from a design/engineering/manufacturing standpoint, it's simply not possible without controlling the whole system and having much tighter tolerances/QC which is obviously going to increase cost. Most brands manufacture in Asia, at higher production rates, so variability is much higher than Cedrus. Many of my adapters are actually designed from CAD supplied directly from the brand, so in theory they should fit exactly the same. But in some cases, they don't... which is obvious evidence that OEM CAD (design data) does not match their manufacturing.

2) projectcedrus.com/cedrus-development/aero/
Ventilation is even more complex and can be caused by a number of things. Of course mast profile is highly impactful, with shorter chord lengths/thicker masts being more prone. However there's a lot more than that, as structural performance can play a big role. A thin mast may ventilate under high torsional loads because the profile can twist causing flow separation. Surface finish is also critical, anything from a pinhole in paint to a damaged trailing edge can cause it. Water surface conditions matter, as small chop can trap air against the mast. In short, ventilation is a lot like a car skidding around a tight corner. Sure a Porsche 911 will perform better than a Land Rover, but all cars will skid when pushed to a limit. And that same Porsche that can turn at a higher speed may not be as fun to drive at slow speeds over rough (wavy) terrain. Much like the above, expecting there to be a perfect foil setup (mast, etc) that will never ventilate is a tall order.

Great masts, but I didnt like the part where I needed an mallet to get the wings on and off, and don,t get my started about traveling with those masts wich was PITA,or the price of it in europe as they are here by far the most expensive set you can buy and because of that virt no dealers or demo gear.. converted we talk about a 4000,- australian dollars for a simple set...

The Starboard QL2 is a damn good connection system. Shame their wings seem to always be a generation behind.

So what were you riding and what size wings did you have on the No Limitz , which length . Got me worried now I have 2 on order. How does it compare speed wise with the Cedrus.

Hdip said..
I have seen photos of the fuse breaking and people losing their foil wings. Hopefully it's not a widespread issue.

The fuse adaptor on the NL mast? or are you referring to the comments about GoFoil?

nice thing about the gofoil kit is that everything floats. When or if the mast/fuse breaks nothing will sink. when I broke mast/fuse joints it never came clean off, still completely attached, just cracked through and really floppy. I guess if I tried to keep riding it maybe it would break all the way, but it wasn't possible to ride so floppy.On the flip side, I have sunk two sets of wing/fuse/tail kits by broken mast connections. One was a takuma when the M6 mast/fuse bolts sheared off. I recovered that kit the next day by searching the beach half a mile away where it washed up. The other I won't name the brand because they took reasonable care of me with the warranty process. But those parts are likely lost forever.

Hwy1North said..

Hdip said..
I have seen photos of the fuse breaking and people losing their foil wings. Hopefully it's not a widespread issue.

The fuse adaptor on the NL mast? or are you referring to the comments about GoFoil?

NoLimitz. It seems people are getting their foils replaced when it happens. It's all third hand rumors though. KDmaui's supposed to be running a NoLimitz mast in the upcoming hood river race.

BayAreaKite said..
Cedrus may get a little flack for its thickness, even though most clients don't report feeling any more drag. But there has never been a single structural failure/crack or other irreparable damage to the mast in over 4 years of production. I was never a huge fan of these complex conical male/female fuselage pockets, but some brands seem to have better control over their manufacturing of the joint than others. I do continue to believe that two flat and planar surfaces held together by M8 screws is a very reliable, predictable, and strong connection.

As a gross simplification i think the thickest part is going to be annoyinng if speed/efficency is the target. If your wing is thicker than the cedrus its probably the better bet. If your wing is thinner then your going to morice that mast (compared to something equivalent thickness)