Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

SUP Foiling .....why ?

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Created by kobo Two weeks ago, 8 May 2020
kobo
NSW, 207 posts
8 May 2020 5:29PM
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Love prone foiling and very comfortable with it, Went out for my first SUP foil with today and it's sux,every muscle is sore, lower back hurting , cramps in my feet and totally exhausted.
Managed to get 8 rides of 100 m or so and felt fine once I was up foiling , even though it felt like foiling an ocean liner compared to prone, but I recon I fell off at least 6 times for every wave I caught.
Got to admit I've never supped before and I bought it to wingding with ultimately, but found balancing and being in the right place etc very challenging.
Tell me it gets easier and less painful, but apart from being able to catch the waves earlier I'm struggling to see many advantages to SUP over prone.
Interested to hear from others who have tried the same.

hilly
WA, 5252 posts
8 May 2020 4:13PM
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kobo said..
Love prone foiling and very comfortable with it, Went out for my first SUP foil with today and it's sux,every muscle is sore, lower back hurting , cramps in my feet and totally exhausted.
Managed to get 8 rides of 100 m or so and felt fine once I was up foiling , even though it felt like foiling an ocean liner compared to prone, but I recon I fell off at least 6 times for every wave I caught.
Got to admit I've never supped before and I bought it to wingding with ultimately, but found balancing and being in the right place etc very challenging.
Tell me it gets easier and less painful, but apart from being able to catch the waves earlier I'm struggling to see many advantages to SUP over prone.
Interested to hear from others who have tried the same.


I sup due to neck issues. Advantages are you are standing already so no jump up, get into waves a bit earlier and you can cover more ground to catch waves. if I could prone I would and not sup.

colas
3830 posts
8 May 2020 4:25PM
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kobo said..
Got to admit I've never supped before



It is normal. You just experienced what prone surfers experience when they try SUPing, thinking it is easy :-)

There is no free lunch. SUPing offer advantages over prone surfing, but also drawbacks. The technicality of the paddling is a major one, along with going out through breaking waves. With or without a foil ;-). On the advantanges, I would guess it is easier with a SUP foil to take off on non-breaking waves and to use straps. And also the only option if your body is not able to prone surf anymore.

This said, for foiling, for a lot of people, Wingfoiling seems to be more interesting than SUP foiling as it has similar advantages/drawbacks, but more convenient in most places.

Gorgo
VIC, 4363 posts
8 May 2020 6:41PM
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Rule 1 of foiling. The foil takes all your inputs, amplifies them up to 11, and throws them back at you.

You don't get good at foiling until you re-calibrate your muscle memory to send the correct inputs to the foil. Until you do that you will be tentative and uncomfortable and have epic crashes.

Once you've developed the feel you can go as hard as you want. Then it becomes addictive.

Piros
QLD, 5844 posts
8 May 2020 6:43PM
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Foiling is all about genres . Sup Foil Surf , Sup Foil Downwind , Sup Foil Wingding. Prone foil tow in , Prone Foil Surf , Prone dockstart & Prone foil downwind & Foil wing. Plus you can Sup & Prone behind a boat . All require different skills . But each assist each other . The more aspects of foiling you master the other genres become easier and you become more efficient. To quote Henry Ford " Whether you think you can or think you can't both are right "

If you can foil on a Sup or prone there is no reason why you can't foil on anything. Same goes for the pumping thing .

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
8 May 2020 9:19PM
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Hilly, yes paddling back out and catching waves earlier will be easier when I learn not to fall off all the time.
Colas, yep I did think it was going to be easy so you are right on there.I thought because I could already foil the lunch would be freeer.
Piros, it's all your fault anyhow for posting all those videos of an old man doing everything on a foil !
btw got the 6'7 fanatic and 4m ozone , hoping for some decent wind on Sunday to try some winging for my mum on Sunday. More humble pie on the way.

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
8 May 2020 7:58PM
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I don't think I could cover 18kms and get over 40 waves if I was prone foiling.






kobo
NSW, 207 posts
8 May 2020 10:31PM
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tightlines said..
I don't think I could cover 18kms and get over 40 waves if I was prone foiling.






True, so paddling around on a SUP gets easier with practice

Youngbreezy
WA, 639 posts
8 May 2020 9:28PM
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Piros said..
Foiling is all about genres . Sup Foil Surf , Sup Foil Downwind , Sup Foil Wingding. Prone foil tow in , Prone Foil Surf , Prone dockstart & Prone foil downwind & Foil wing. Plus you can Sup & Prone behind a boat . All require different skills . But each assist each other . The more aspects of foiling you master the other genres become easier and you become more efficient. To quote Henry Ford " Whether you think you can or think you can't both are right "

If you can foil on a Sup or prone there is no reason why you can't foil on anything. Same goes for the pumping thing .


Hey man don't forget about kite foiling!

MidAtlanticFoil
66 posts
8 May 2020 9:36PM
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kobo said..
Love prone foiling and very comfortable with it, Went out for my first SUP foil with today and it's sux,every muscle is sore, lower back hurting , cramps in my feet and totally exhausted.
Managed to get 8 rides of 100 m or so and felt fine once I was up foiling , even though it felt like foiling an ocean liner compared to prone, but I recon I fell off at least 6 times for every wave I caught.
Got to admit I've never supped before and I bought it to wingding with ultimately, but found balancing and being in the right place etc very challenging.
Tell me it gets easier and less painful, but apart from being able to catch the waves earlier I'm struggling to see many advantages to SUP over prone.
Interested to hear from others who have tried the same.


I got my buddy to pick up foiling (very good prone surfer). Even with limited SUP experience, mainly flat water touring, he decided to get a SUP Foil board with V1 Gofoil (old maliko high aspect). I was with him his first few sessions he was loosing balance and falling in constantly. Now probably 20 sessions in, I don't seem him fall in or loose balance at all. He says he won't go out with any cross current or side wind though. Now I'm trying to get him to use a prone board I lent him and he's all like 'but i'm just getting this SUP dialed in, don't want to start over' haha.

It impressive to be next to him while he paddles into unbreaking waves that I couldn't even begin to paddle into prone.

I'm in a similar boat to you, picking up a SUP to Wing with. At 65 Kilos, I went +40L for a 105L 5'11" SUP. I've had two SUP Sessions in the surf on it and it is challenging! My first wave though, I almost got a 2-1, still fun. Then I recently got a smaller wing board that's 5'1" and 75L (+10L) and I tried to SUP that in the surf and my J stroke skills were exposed as non-existent. Paddling around like a row boat with one oar. I could also barely stand on the board with the 1550 wing (much easier with the 2400 in flat water). I hope to start training some flat water paddling with the small board so I can take it to the ocean, as that size is easy for me to pump and it rides great with the wing.

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
8 May 2020 9:56PM
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kobo said..

tightlines said..
I don't think I could cover 18kms and get over 40 waves if I was prone foiling.






True, so paddling around on a SUP gets easier with practice


Yep it certainly does.
Mind you I had been paddling SUP's for years before I started foiling.

Youngbreezy
WA, 639 posts
8 May 2020 10:19PM
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I have been getting right into the progression podcast and there has been a fair bit of talk about the pros and cons of sup vs prone

The obvious ones are sups are better at paddling longer distances, have earlier entry and better ability to take off both on bigger waves and smaller bumps/ wind swell. Prone boards are significantly more manoeuvrable/better performance and alot better for pumping, small prone boards also open up the world of dock starting.

Its when it gets to the elite level that things get interesting and the lines become blurred. I think it was James casey and zane Schweitzer that were saying they can pump longer and further with a sup because the paddle gives the extra propulsion. Some of the best sup guys like Derek Hama are able to rip the best turns using the extra leverage of the paddle and the use of foot straps takes things to a whole new level.

With that said I do think we will see prone become the dominant form of surf foiling. Foiling is starting to get a bit of acceptance and coolness with the mainstream surfing world with quite a few top pros taking it up. This is something that sup surfing has never achieved. A lot of good surfers will gravitate towards prone foiling because they are already good at prone surfing and sup is often stigmatised in the main stream surfing world.

jondrums
16 posts
9 May 2020 4:06AM
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Without a doubt, a SUP foil setup can get into waves that are impossible to catch on a prone. From past experience on non-foil SUP, I can get into waves earlier on a foil-SUP using a combination of paddling and pumping. That means I can ride waves that no other common wave-riding craft* can - and I'm not some elite athlete. There are guys who can flat-water start a SUP-foil, which means they could catch any kind of wave regardless of size or steepness.

This alone makes SUP foiling very interesting for me because I can go to places where nobody else is and catch every single wave I want to catch. Shh, don't tell anyone else about this little secret. I keep wondering how long I'll get empty take-off zones, but so far so good.

* the good kayak guys can come close to catching waves as early, and the oc-1/surfski guys can get waves I can't get.

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
9 May 2020 7:59AM
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Geez, now you guys are talking me back into again , really like the idea of going anywhere and getting what I want with no crowds that for sure.

rwtaaffe
NSW, 91 posts
9 May 2020 11:56AM
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A few SUP skills would help NL??

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
9 May 2020 12:05PM
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Can't post here unless you use your real name Richard !

Youngbreezy
WA, 639 posts
9 May 2020 2:00PM
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Kobo if it's any consolation paddling a short foil sup is a lot harder than paddling a normal longer sup. I have been on sups for a long time and struggled for my first few sessions on a foil sup. Like anything it does take time to develop the skills and it does get easier with time.

Best thing is to do plenty of flat water paddling as training and work on your J stroke technique

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
9 May 2020 6:02PM
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Youngbreezy said..
Kobo if it's any consolation paddling a short foil sup is a lot harder than paddling a normal longer sup. I have been on sups for a long time and struggled for my first few sessions on a foil sup. Like anything it does take time to develop the skills and it does get easier with time.

Best thing is to do plenty of flat water paddling as training and work on your J stroke technique


Thanks Youngbreezy , I will do as suggested ,I did try the J stroke and it worked a bit but I guess it needs practice too.
Cheers.

eppo
WA, 7525 posts
9 May 2020 9:15PM
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I mainly prone foil but have a sup to and I feel your pain. Not coming from much of a supping background spent the first 10 sessions just hated it. But then it clicks and you can get the benefits of it. I have the sup for really fat Fck waves that the prone cannot get on. Also if a particular waves peak is shifting all over the shop you can see it coming sooner and also get into the right spot quicker.

also good for those waves a fair way out that you would second guess prone paddling out to.
as far as catching more waves ... depends. Now I can pump back out to the wave (and even some sneaky link ups) I don't miss out on much compared to the sups.


But as someone said above I can see at the advanced level with really small sup boards and foot straps and pump ability ... the Sup foiling has some obvious overall advantages.


but yeh it's just water time man. I nearly sold mine for a lot while there.. many hours and lots of swearing I kind of got somewhere that meant it was worth keeping.


still prefer prone foiling though any day of the week. Can't get enough

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
10 May 2020 8:00AM
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eppo said..
I mainly prone foil but have a sup to and I feel your pain. Not coming from much of a supping background spent the first 10 sessions just hated it. But then it clicks and you can get the benefits of it. I have the sup for really fat Fck waves that the prone cannot get on. Also if a particular waves peak is shifting all over the shop you can see it coming sooner and also get into the right spot quicker.

also good for those waves a fair way out that you would second guess prone paddling out to.
as far as catching more waves ... depends. Now I can pump back out to the wave (and even some sneaky link ups) I don't miss out on much compared to the sups.


But as someone said above I can see at the advanced level with really small sup boards and foot straps and pump ability ... the Sup foiling has some obvious overall advantages.


but yeh it's just water time man. I nearly sold mine for a lot while there.. many hours and lots of swearing I kind of got somewhere that meant it was worth keeping.


still prefer prone foiling though any day of the week. Can't get enough


Thanks Eppo, I'm hearing you ,I can pump back out on my prone and I get plenty of waves every session too, so I will just have to spend the time on the sup until the advantages takeover the disadvantages, I found my first session with the wing not as bad as paddling too, Felt more stable having the wing to lean against.
Cheers


juandesooka
336 posts
10 May 2020 1:58PM
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I do both, started sup now mostly prone. But the sup stillistill useful in some situations...get in early on soft waves, extra long paddle backs.

today i was on a wave that's was fairly critical takeoffs (should have been regular surfing to be honest). Prone didnt work well as I couldn't get set up quick enough, so couldn't catch up to the face, and it quickly shallowed up inside. But with sup I could take off just that little further on shoulder and make it.

supin wind chop or dumpy closeouts sucks, where prone can catch the reforms.

You'll pick up sup quick...overall way easier than prone I think

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
10 May 2020 4:36PM
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juandesooka said..
I do both, started sup now mostly prone. But the sup stillistill useful in some situations...get in early on soft waves, extra long paddle backs.

today i was on a wave that's was fairly critical takeoffs (should have been regular surfing to be honest). Prone didnt work well as I couldn't get set up quick enough, so couldn't catch up to the face, and it quickly shallowed up inside. But with sup I could take off just that little further on shoulder and make it.

supin wind chop or dumpy closeouts sucks, where prone can catch the reforms.

You'll pick up sup quick...overall way easier than prone I think


Thanks, that's interesting that you think it's easier than prone, I will keep at it and see how it goes, went out with the wing today and got some good foil time with it so very happy.Even though it was very gusty I found it much easier than paddling the sup.I strapped the paddle to the handles on the wasp so I could get back if the wind dropped, but I ended up hanging onto the paddle like a boom and worked a treat so I'm stoked with that option, even managed to ride switch with the wing , which is great as less twist in the body and upwind better.Wind was gusting from 11-17 and managed to get going with the 4m wasp and 1550 Armstrong, had to pump through the lulls to keep going so looking forward to a steady seabreeze to have a go in.

Bazzacuda
NSW, 11 posts
10 May 2020 9:28PM
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For me the SUP was harder to learn, a lot more coordination going on to learn. For waves with a long paddle out, either small and weak or when bigger, stand up works well. Chop and wind make it hard work. Learning to pump the SUP did wonders for my pumping ability on the prone.

I can't pick a favourite, I get more waves per session on the sup, and enjoy the looseness of the prone. For a long paddle, sup is better, for beach breaks the prone is king.

For losing weight and as a full body workout, the sup has advantages. After a few months riding one, my core is a lot better off and have not had any back issues which used to hinder me.

But from a surfing background I also love the feeling of paddling in on the prone. It depends on the day and conditions.

scotty100
QLD, 208 posts
11 May 2020 7:44AM
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Its like all the foiling disciplines, time and place for each. When it's morning and glassy I go sup foil, if wind gets up or it's bumpy condition I go prone foil, wind hit 10 knots I kite foil and when wind hits 15 knot I try and wind ding. I also would not try and take on over 6 foot on prone foil but would have no issues with sup foil. This is why we have all the options and it annoys me when people try and spruke that 1 is better than the other, it is total personal preference and each to their own. One thing is common with all " stay loyal to the foil" ?? and most of all ENJOY

kobo
NSW, 207 posts
11 May 2020 8:57AM
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scotty100 said..
Its like all the foiling disciplines, time and place for each. When it's morning and glassy I go sup foil, if wind gets up or it's bumpy condition I go prone foil, wind hit 10 knots I kite foil and when wind hits 15 knot I try and wind ding. I also would not try and take on over 6 foot on prone foil but would have no issues with sup foil. This is why we have all the options and it annoys me when people try and spruke that 1 is better than the other, it is total personal preference and each to their own. One thing is common with all " stay loyal to the foil" ?? and most of all ENJOY


Hey Scotty 100 , you are the first to mention being able to take on bigger waves with the sup , is that because you can get onto them earlier before they get too steep ?

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
11 May 2020 7:17AM
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kobo said..


scotty100 said..
Its like all the foiling disciplines, time and place for each. When it's morning and glassy I go sup foil, if wind gets up or it's bumpy condition I go prone foil, wind hit 10 knots I kite foil and when wind hits 15 knot I try and wind ding. I also would not try and take on over 6 foot on prone foil but would have no issues with sup foil. This is why we have all the options and it annoys me when people try and spruke that 1 is better than the other, it is total personal preference and each to their own. One thing is common with all " stay loyal to the foil" ?? and most of all ENJOY




Hey Scotty 100 , you are the first to mention being able to take on bigger waves with the sup , is that because you can get onto them earlier before they get too steep ?



I would say you can take on bigger waves on a sup for a number of reasons, the first being because you are standing up you can see the wave forming way earlier so you have a better idea of where you need to be.
You can paddle faster on a SUP to get to that position.

When you are experienced on a SUP, ie you have better balance, better stance (more of a surf stance) better paddle technique (those that come from a SUP racing background will get the blade in the water more and get a lot more power down for example) you will be able to catch waves easier than on a prone
Then as you SUP foil pump technique improves you will get even better at catching waves and can get on way earlier or further out on the shoulder which gives you time to set your line.

There is no doubt you can pump better on a prone when you are up but you can't do anything but paddle when laying down.
The best Sup paddlers can get up on Flatwater, a lot of sup paddlers can get up on unbroken Ocean swell when downwinding, you would have to be a super freak to get up on ocean swell on a prone

hilly
WA, 5252 posts
11 May 2020 7:53AM
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On bigger waves I prefer to tow foil. Getting caught inside with a sup foil is not that enjoyable.

juandesooka
336 posts
11 May 2020 8:13AM
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I have caught my bigger foil waves on sup too, just able to get into them earlier and little more on the shoulder. On a sub 5' prone board, the only place you can catch the wave, the drop is too critical (at least for me).

But on really big days, it is fun to ride the prone by sitting just inside the peak, catch the white water, then ride til it reforms on the inside. Often end up taking off behind a surfer, hang back til they fall off, then take over the pocket/wall after.

For big waves prone, I am intrigued by the descriptions in Progression Project of riders catching a small insider, immediately kicking out and pumping to peak to catch a wave that would otherwise be not paddle-able. Kind of a personal tow-in. That would work really well in our spot, but my pump skills are not yet there. I still think the pump monkey thing looks pretty bad, style-wise, but as a means to an end, would be awesome.

tightlines
WA, 3267 posts
11 May 2020 8:18AM
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hilly said..
On bigger waves I prefer to tow foil. Getting caught inside with a sup foil is not that enjoyable.


Yep would totally agree, once it gets real big, the tow is the go.
I was going to mention that but had already rambled on for long enough.

hilly
WA, 5252 posts
11 May 2020 9:23AM
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juandesooka said.. I still think the pump monkey thing looks pretty bad, style-wise, but as a means to an end, would be awesome.


Totally agree with both points. We need a pump monkey emoji

eppo
WA, 7525 posts
11 May 2020 8:33PM
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juandesooka said..
I have caught my bigger foil waves on sup too, just able to get into them earlier and little more on the shoulder. On a sub 5' prone board, the only place you can catch the wave, the drop is too critical (at least for me).

But on really big days, it is fun to ride the prone by sitting just inside the peak, catch the white water, then ride til it reforms on the inside. Often end up taking off behind a surfer, hang back til they fall off, then take over the pocket/wall after.

For big waves prone, I am intrigued by the descriptions in Progression Project of riders catching a small insider, immediately kicking out and pumping to peak to catch a wave that would otherwise be not paddle-able. Kind of a personal tow-in. That would work really well in our spot, but my pump skills are not yet there. I still think the pump monkey thing looks pretty bad, style-wise, but as a means to an end, would be awesome.


Yeh also a good ploy when the first paddle out there is a long one. Catch a sneaky bit of white water on an inside wave then pump out the main wave. The pump monkey Peter Garret disco hip hop move lol.



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"SUP Foiling .....why ?" started by kobo