Forums > Stand Up Paddle Foiling

Small wing or longer mast or both when surf is big!

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Created by Seajuice 2 months ago, 3 Mar 2019
Seajuice
NSW, 394 posts
3 Mar 2019 8:57PM
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I stepped down to a smaller NeilPryde wing for bigger surf. Seemed to be better & more controllable in about head high surf. But I still had that dreaded breach to nose dive. Mainly due to my slower reaction time to dip the nose down on the approach of a trough in bumpy water or side swell.
So now thinking of getting the NeilPryde small wing as I didn't have any trouble in getting the medium wing up & running on my 7ft 115 Litre board.
So wondering what I should get for head high or bigger surf. Small wing or longer mast or both?
Or am I just starting to be ridiculous?! Haa!
Foil boarding was to be for small crappy surf wasn't it?

Clamsmasha
WA, 38 posts
3 Mar 2019 8:55PM
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Both!

Beasho
133 posts
3 Mar 2019 11:12PM
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In Northern California we are pushing into bigger and bigger stuff.

I only started to use the TALL GoFoil Mast 3 weeks ago and it is almost a game changer and NECESSARY for Bigger Surf.

In big surf there tends to be large lumps on the face. The tall mast stays down. First time out I was in 7 to 10 foot surf and the rig did NOT breach.

Wings - Go bigger. The small wings may be fine for takeoff but once you are flying you eventually, and very quickly run out of wave. Then you want the bigger wing to be able to pump and glide. I was out in Santa Cruz and it was 19 ft @ 19 seconds employing this strategy. Haley Fiske has been attempting to take off on 20 footers in Pacifica (Pedro Point). We are both using the GoFoil IWA wing aka NOT a Small Wing.

Small Tail - YES This can be very helpful. Prevents over-foiling on big waves. What happens is that you need to get your center of gravity BACK. The small tail takes off and stays down but then you struggle to pump. I am testing a longer footstrap that allows movement of the front foot from proper takeoff, weight forward, to sliding back for rearward improved balance.

3rd Thing - You will need a bigger board. My 7' 4" is good for big waves where I struggle on my 6' 6" due to lack of board speed and lower stability.

Here I am flying inside Mavericks (I started outside but no way to catch the shoulder). IWA wing with small Kai tail. You can kind of tell I am struggling to keep my weight modulated and the nose up. But the rig glides much better than with the Kai front wing.

Beasho
133 posts
3 Mar 2019 11:22PM
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Another tip:

On Big Waves Fly out in front of the Wave into the Flats.

This is NOT what you want to do in small waves aka you will stall, crash and burn. However in big waves there can be enough energy and a gentle slope to let you continue flying and then perform a controlled bottom turn back to the shoulder. This compared to running down the shoulder, or spine of the wave, which is 1) Where all the energy is and 2) Will get you going WAY faster than you are comfortable likely to send you flying into a breach.

This was Haley's observation. 2 Others he had for me were "You have to put yourself in harms way and when the wave goes mental you'll know you're in the right spot for takeoff." Not what you want to hear from Haley when you are at a new spot attempting to catch 10 to 12 foot faces on a foil.

DWF
85 posts
4 Mar 2019 5:18AM
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Seajuice, get the NP Wind mast. It's 70cm. It's what I use all the time now. I tried to get an 80cm for really choppy conditions, but none available in the US yet.

I don't like the small wing. It's the same thickness as the medium, yet much shorter in span. So it doesn't feel less draggy, just a lot less stable. Not to my taste. I prefer the medium and large wings. Maybe a pro would like the small wing.

Clamsmasha
WA, 38 posts
4 Mar 2019 9:23AM
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You can't go wrong with a longer mast, it helps to dampen the twitchier reaction of the foil at higher speed. It helps in steeper waves as you have a little more room to move without touching the lip/face.

As for wing size, it really depends on the quality (steepness, speed etc.) of the wave. A burger is a burger, and it helps to be able to fly a bit earlier as Beasho demonstrates in the video...not much fun working a fat section on a small wing, and of course the pump is much harder.

A wave quarter the size of Beashos can get too spicey for the Iwa if it gets suckey and lines up. As the speed ramps up the lift ramps up and you end up having tiny little breaches from the trough side wing, enough to face plant.

My local has gone from 1-2' windswell mush to 1-3' lined up groundswell this week, and the Iwa went from not quite enough to almost too much just due to the speed and steepness.

Seajuice
NSW, 394 posts
4 Mar 2019 7:45PM
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Cool. Thanks guys.
Makes sense.
If you are using the IWA wing in 15 ft plus waves. Then I think no problem with a NeilPryde medium wing.
I was able to fly on head high waves with the large wing but found it better with the medium having a bit more control with less breaches.
So a longer mast looks to be the answer when the surfs up.
I'll probably freak out going even higher. Haaa!
But gee, going from the 65 mast to a 70cm mast isn't much. So may have to look into the 80 cm?
Where I mainly surf it's easy deep enough.
But off the rocks & in the entrance the 65 mast is just right.

Camarillo
138 posts
4 Mar 2019 5:52PM
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Select to expand quote
Seajuice said..
Cool. Thanks guys.
Makes sense.
If you are using the IWA wing in 15 ft plus waves. Then I think no problem with a NeilPryde medium wing.
I was able to fly on head high waves with the large wing but found it better with the medium having a bit more control with less breaches.
So a longer mast looks to be the answer when the surfs up.
I'll probably freak out going even higher. Haaa!
But gee, going from the 65 mast to a 70cm mast isn't much. So may have to look into the 80 cm?
Where I mainly surf it's easy deep enough.
But off the rocks & in the entrance the 65 mast is just right.


I thought the NP Glide Foil comes with a 60 cm mast:

www.neilpryde.com/pages/product-compatibility

Seems you can go for 70 or 85 cm.

Seajuice
NSW, 394 posts
4 Mar 2019 9:36PM
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I Piros confirmed mast measurement at 65cm. I am pretty sure I measured it once too. But will double check.
It's listed as a 65cm mast on the NP parts list as shown here.

toppleover
QLD, 1498 posts
5 Mar 2019 6:45AM
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I measured mine & it is definatly 65cm. For prone using L & M wings the 65 is perfect for my local when it's small (touch the bottom at dead low tide) but lots of breaching in bigger more poweful waves.
85/90 will be too long, so think I'll get the 70 - 10cm longer should do the trick.
See there's a 70 carbon listed as well.

Gofoil Australia
NSW, 40 posts
6 Mar 2019 5:28PM
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I've been using the GoFoil 29.5" Mast with IWA front wing & Kai tail on both my 5'11 JL FlyingV sup & JL 5'4" SuperFly prone board up & down the coast for the past 5 days in 3-6 foot surf & it worked a treat.... My mate was on his GoFoil 24.5" mast & changed between his IWA & Kai front wings depending on the break, size & conditions... It was great to compare both...

Seajuice
NSW, 394 posts
6 Mar 2019 10:03PM
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Well. I am starting to see that foil companies should be supplying masts at increments of 5cm giving us a wider choice. So in my case I have a 65cm mast. And would like to go to a 75cm mast. But my only option is 85cm & 90cm which may be too long. And the 70cm may not make much difference.
I wonder if 5cm & 10cm etc spacers would work? If so. Much cheaper & less storage space.?

DWF
85 posts
6 Mar 2019 8:18PM
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Seajuice said..
Well. I am starting to see that foil companies should be supplying masts at increments of 5cm giving us a wider choice. So in my case I have a 65cm mast. And would like to go to a 75cm mast. But my only option is 85cm & 90cm which may be too long. And the 70cm may not make much difference.
I wonder if 5cm & 10cm etc spacers would work? If so. Much cheaper & less storage space.?




If you can get the 85cm, then cut it to 75cm. Cut at fuselage end with the NP. Then re-tap threads. Hole for tapping is extruded through mast end to end. No need for tap drilling.

That is the nice benefit to aluminum masts. You can make any size you want.

Seajuice
NSW, 394 posts
7 Mar 2019 1:32PM
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Thanks DWF.

toppleover
QLD, 1498 posts
7 Mar 2019 1:04PM
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Select to expand quote
DWF said..

Seajuice said..
Well. I am starting to see that foil companies should be supplying masts at increments of 5cm giving us a wider choice. So in my case I have a 65cm mast. And would like to go to a 75cm mast. But my only option is 85cm & 90cm which may be too long. And the 70cm may not make much difference.
I wonder if 5cm & 10cm etc spacers would work? If so. Much cheaper & less storage space.?





If you can get the 85cm, then cut it to 75cm. Cut at fuselage end with the NP. Then re-tap threads. Hole for tapping is extruded through mast end to end. No need for tap drilling.

That is the nice benefit to aluminum masts. You can make any size you want.


I think the NP 70 is actually 75cm, just like the 60 is really 65.

I've ordered one, so can report back when I receive it.

Camarillo
138 posts
7 Mar 2019 1:41PM
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Select to expand quote
toppleover said..I think the NP 70 is actually 75cm, just like the 60 is really 65. I've ordered one, so can report back when I receive it.


That would be nice, I was planning to wait for the upcoming carbon mast but that might take till September....

Is 85 cm 33,5 inch too long for a sup foil?

Gofoil Australia
NSW, 40 posts
7 Mar 2019 5:41PM
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I find the 29.5" (75cm) mast perfect for both Sup, prone & downwind foiling.... I can't go back to shorter but don't think I'd want longer either...



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"Small wing or longer mast or both when surf is big!" started by Seajuice