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Bonzer Sups?

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Created by exiled 4 months ago, 6 Mar 2019
exiled
220 posts
6 Mar 2019 10:57AM
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Has anyone out there seen any successful Bonzer shaped sups? With all of the things that have been tried by now, I would have figured that bonzer or two would be out there.

Kami
1381 posts
9 Mar 2019 6:04PM
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Good idea Exiled, I've Just a virtual one I got in a folder waiting to be built


www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Board=4780

exiled
220 posts
10 Mar 2019 7:43AM
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Nice looking out line, Is it laid out for a three fin set up or 5? what would the dimensions look like for a 120l board?

Still seems weird that no one has built one yet though. I'd love to hear a ride report.

Kami
1381 posts
10 Mar 2019 4:37PM
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It's three fins set up. The difference from 5 ones is the fact that 3 got a '' venturi effect'' aside of the single fin. 3 fins' Venturi is a kind of funnel where water flow is convergent to the single fin to add drive and therefore planning. And it can be a concave at center of the board as well.

When the 5 fins set up are mostly concaves and fins system hooking water flow along the rail. I personally think about 5 fins that the four leading ones are acting more as a Twinzer... and it's flat to belly at the center of the board.

For instance of 5 fins Bonzer I study that Bonzer 5 fins as a new board for my lucky son. As you can watch above here. BTW the 5 fins Bonzer is looser than the 3 fins.

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Board=5273


For that outline and foil, 120 litres boards the dims are here. Please note that design is an oriented Short SUP and need to ride with a weight ratio of approx 1,1. It can be studied as a longboard oriented SUP.

www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Board=4780


scott mckerc
WA, 204 posts
10 Mar 2019 7:21PM
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Agree exiled
should be tried
Had some 5 fin cambell brothers bonzer surf board and wavesailing boards shaped by mick manolas under license that were sweet back in the day. 1991
They definitely producer speed down the line
5 fin set up wasn't in line though? front one further out to the rail than the back one.

Kami
1381 posts
10 Mar 2019 8:46PM
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Select to expand quote
scott mckerc said..
Agree exiled
should be tried
Had some 5 fin cambell brothers bonzer surf board and wavesailing boards shaped by mick manolas under license that were sweet back in the day. 1991
They definitely producer speed down the line
5 fin set up wasn't in line though? front one further out to the rail than the back one.




I use 4 sets of plugs to figure out the 3 Fins Bonzer as the original one was.

As I look around and from my own small experience from a board I built, I better like the 5 fins rather than the 3 fins I had own and surf too long time ago.

Note that there are different concaves bottom shape up to the number of fins. The 3 one get a main divergent concave with a flat outside panel as seen above here


While the 5 fins is a four concaves convergent system.


exiled
220 posts
11 Mar 2019 11:36AM
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The other nice thing about the 5 fin set up is the availability of FCS bozer fins in that format. I've only seen the 3 fin runners as glass-ons, not really an option for the non-traditional build I'm contemplating.

Kami, I'm about 107kg, so the ratio would be close to what you are talking about, but at 8'9 of length, aren't you pretty much at long board lengths any way? My understanding was that bonzers need to be driven from the tail. So no matter how long you make it, you still want to get back there asap, right?

Kami
1381 posts
11 Mar 2019 3:22PM
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exiled said..
The other nice thing about the 5 fin set up is the availability of FCS bozer fins in that format. I've only seen the 3 fin runners as glass-ons, not really an option for the non-traditional build I'm contemplating.

Kami, I'm about 107kg, so the ratio would be close to what you are talking about, but at 8'9 of length, aren't you pretty much at long board lengths any way? My understanding was that bonzers need to be driven from the tail. So no matter how long you make it, you still want to get back there asap, right?




You are right about fins Exiled because FCS is doing what they call the B5 fins set. And personally, I would prefer the bottom shape of 5 fins getting fins closed to the rail of that wide board which is a SUP.

The B5 set is looser than the 3 fins with runners set and allows to ride the board more from the front foot. That B5 system would fit on the kind of board I recently designed to Hoppo.
www.shape3d.com/Viewers/Viewer3D.aspx?Board=5447

Would I suggest to you that combo, mixing the same kind of Hoppo's board outline with the Bonzer 5?

scott mckerc
WA, 204 posts
12 Mar 2019 8:22AM
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Kami said..

scott mckerc said..
Agree exiled
should be tried
Had some 5 fin cambell brothers bonzer surf board and wavesailing boards shaped by mick manolas under license that were sweet back in the day. 1991
They definitely producer speed down the line
5 fin set up wasn't in line though? front one further out to the rail than the back one.





I use 4 sets of plugs to figure out the 3 Fins Bonzer as the original one was.

As I look around and from my own small experience from a board I built, I better like the 5 fins rather than the 3 fins I had own and surf too long time ago.

Note that there are different concaves bottom shape up to the number of fins. The 3 one get a main divergent concave with a flat outside panel as seen above here


While the 5 fins is a four concaves convergent system.



Gotcha
so the four fin box's were for for /aft movement of a thruster set up.

So a quad concave 5 fin as opposed to the deep double. very interesting.

Have you shaped that one yet? would love to see.

Would you be thinking a 5 fin deep double would be running less rocker than a traditional thruster?

IN time I actually ended up with thrusters running with the eclipticals for windsurf, but reckon for sup the 5 fin super squirt model probably still the go

Kami
1381 posts
23 Mar 2019 8:37AM
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Select to expand quote
scott mckerc said..


Kami said..



scott mckerc said..
Agree exiled
should be tried
Had some 5 fin cambell brothers bonzer surf board and wavesailing boards shaped by mick manolas under license that were sweet back in the day. 1991
They definitely producer speed down the line
5 fin set up wasn't in line though? front one further out to the rail than the back one.







I use 4 sets of plugs to figure out the 3 Fins Bonzer as the original one was.

As I look around and from my own small experience from a board I built, I better like the 5 fins rather than the 3 fins I had own and surf too long time ago.

Note that there are different concaves bottom shape up to the number of fins. The 3 one get a main divergent concave with a flat outside panel as seen above here


While the 5 fins is a four concaves convergent system.




Gotcha
so the four fin box's were for for /aft movement of a thruster set up.

So a quad concave 5 fin as opposed to the deep double. very interesting.

Have you shaped that one yet? would love to see.

Would you be thinking a 5 fin deep double would be running less rocker than a traditional thruster?

IN time I actually ended up with thrusters running with the eclipticals for windsurf, but reckon for sup the 5 fin super squirt model probably still the go



I've been waiting the Bonzer 5 fins to deliver from the CNC. As you can see the Bonzer bottom on picture, this one is what I called up here a convergent system. It's running as concaves on Thruster does plus an elliptic vee around the fin base. These 2 components (convergent concave and elliptic vee) create the specific look of the Bonzer 5 fins.
To speak about the rocker needed by this specific bottom shape, i would say that all concaves increase the tail lift and the one I design here is doing it also.
In the case of the convergent Bonzer 3 with runners ( see up here) the rocker would do an S ... but would need a all topic to speak about!

BTW, my son is so lucky to have a shaper/designer Dad







scott mckerc
WA, 204 posts
26 Mar 2019 6:35PM
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Definitely interesting how the concave shallows out toward the box and V's only out of the tail
The cambell brothers ones I had ran all the way out through the tail.
Going to go for the five finner as well.
When I get her shaped will post.
Quite excited about the squirty acceleration sensation.
definitely a more drawn out out cutty to them though but smooth.
Like the retro beak nose too. stylish

Bender
WA, 2056 posts
27 Mar 2019 7:27AM
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Scotty your welcome to borrow this little stick to see how the Campbell Bros blend the bottom with the 5 fin set up. it surfs so fast and smooth

scott mckerc
WA, 204 posts
31 Mar 2019 8:39AM
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Bender said..








Scotty your welcome to borrow this little stick to see how the Campbell Bros blend the bottom with the 5 fin set up. it surfs so fast and smooth


obviously you got one bender. '
retro king.

Kami
1381 posts
6 Apr 2019 5:44AM
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Finally, I can spend an hour to give some finish to that shaped blank completed file.
This is a shorty but this is the same principles of design to do a SUP.
Then after it's a matter of measurements, adjustments to do stand-up paddling boards.







To had a close look at what I'm doing cause I wear eyed corrective glasses, I got the help of the S3D program to see where I have to finish up by hand





Kami
1381 posts
9 Jul 2019 5:45AM
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Finally, my friend laminated and geared that shaped blank.

I expect to find some Bonzer addict to scale up this shortboard file into a SUP one. Let numeric virtuality becomes reality




















SRrat
WA, 230 posts
9 Jul 2019 10:27PM
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Love the planshape , what the final dimensions?

Kami
1381 posts
10 Jul 2019 3:55AM
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SRrat said..
Love the planshape , what the final dimensions?


Thx SRat, Dims are 5'5'' 20' 2,5" 30 litres . This board is going to be ridden by my son 73kg 36 years. But once the file completed like this one Shape3D allows scaling at any dims.

SRrat
WA, 230 posts
10 Jul 2019 7:26AM
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Thanks Kami

ninjatuna
34 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:59PM
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Did someone say Bonzer addict?

Patiently waiting for a bonzer sup

Kami
1381 posts
11 Jul 2019 12:59PM
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ninjatuna said..
Did someone say Bonzer addict?

Patiently waiting for a bonzer sup



What a Bonzer addiction! the largest Bonzer collection probably ever made you have here!
You are an expert of Bonzer for sure.
What are you thinking about the kind of Bonzer SUP? From shortboard kind to the longboard kind or intermediate as the orange one at the far right on the picture up here? I like the Eaton on the far left too.
Ninjatuna, Pm me, please.

scott mckerc
WA, 204 posts
12 Jul 2019 1:25PM
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Ninjatuna
that is seriously impressive
Built this one and couldn't find any FCS set ups any where so ended up getting Nathan rose surfboards who's played with them a bit to help with placement and angles with some glass ons.

At 7'8x29.5 she's quite stumpy, but the first surf was out in solid three to 4 four foot lefts (On my back hand)

Went for a very wide based centre fin that wasn't very big. 14cm.

Handled the size no problem at all with acceleration and speed like nothing else I've ever felt. Especially when you engage the rail and there's some water moving. Actually catches you out there's so much acceleration sometimes.

This fin set up was fine except..... the bonzer fins don't provide any lateral stability when standing on the board so the was quite tippy for that width board.

Went for a larger fin which then lost that magic sensation so still got some playing around with what centre fin is going to provide the best of both worlds.

ninjatuna
34 posts
14 Jul 2019 1:44AM
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Lookin good Scotty.

When I started riding bonzers years ago, I was told to give the board a few sessions before making any stupid decisions because you will fall off the tail when making big turns because it will not slow down. And that was exactly what happened.

To me the magic of these board is having a long center fin box to be able to play with not only different fins but also the location of that center fin. I had a new bonzer (the purple and green one) on a trip to Barbados one time and moved the center fin around but still could not get any good performance out of it. Switched to a slightly smaller more upright fin and the magic happened. The board came alive. So much easier to experiment with single fins than quads or tri's.

colas
3257 posts
14 Jul 2019 2:21PM
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scott mckerc said..
the bonzer fins don't provide any lateral stability when standing on the board so the was quite tippy for that width board.



It is their cant, that actively want to destabilize you by dragging the tail underwater to the sides.

I found out when experimenting with rear fins on my short foil board. I tried bonzer side fins, and it was hell. The board was fluttering, sinking the tail to the sides like a dead leaf constantly, it was worse than without any fin!

I then reshaped cheap keels into basically the same size and outline than the bonzers, but without cant, and it worked perfectly.

micksmith
VIC, 1312 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 12:09PM
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colas said..

scott mckerc said..
the bonzer fins don't provide any lateral stability when standing on the board so the was quite tippy for that width board.




It is their cant, that actively want to destabilize you by dragging the tail underwater to the sides


Can you clarify this paragraph, I mean I just don't get it

colas
3257 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 11:12AM
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micksmith said..
Can you clarify this paragraph, I mean I just don't get it




While paddling, every movement that pushed the tail on a side would also pull this side down underwater, amplifying this yaw+roll movement that has thus to be actively corrected by the rider.

I guess it would be less a problem in a true Bonzer setup with a big center fin dampening this effect. I just have the 2 side fins in rear boxes on the tail (Simmons setup). And was is only while paddling, as I foiled they got out of the water when I rode the waves.

Kami
1381 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 2:03PM
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colas said..


micksmith said..
Can you clarify this paragraph, I mean I just don't get it






While paddling, every movement that pushed the tail on a side would also pull this side down underwater, amplifying this yaw+roll movement that has thus to be actively corrected by the rider.

I guess it would be less a problem in a true Bonzer setup with a big center fin dampening this effect. I just have the 2 side fins in rear boxes on the tail (Simmons setup). And was is only while paddling, as I foiled they got out of the water when I rode the waves.



Paddling abilities is not the goal of the Bonzer, that goal is to get speed and control while surfing.
If paddling ability is needed for some SUPers, the stability should be provided by the outline enlarged by the tail width. But enlarging tail width increases the total surface of the tail and therefore the torque or strength the SUper has to apply from his back foot to dig the main fin, side ones, concave surfaces and rail to make thrust all Bonzer system.
For instance, on the 5'5" board I've made to my son shown on the picture below here, he already claims that it has not the glide of paddling of its Machado Go fish type of board because the board planning area of the board is much larger than the nose part; BTW: which is the reverse case of the SUP.

IMO: Whatever the board is SUP or Prone, the tail surface has to be able to be dug. No matter if its paddling ability.



colas
3257 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 3:09PM
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Kami said..
Paddling abilities is not the goal of the Bonzer, that goal is to get speed and control while surfing.


I was only replying to Scott who found that standing on the board was unstable.

micksmith
VIC, 1312 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 7:13PM
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Colas I don't foil but do you need side fins with a foil, I would have thought you didn't need them.

colas
3257 posts
Tuesday , 16 Jul 2019 5:50PM
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micksmith said..
Colas I don't foil but do you need side fins with a foil, I would have thought you didn't need them.



On short SUP boards, they allow you to really crank the power on paddling/rocking/pumping on takeoffs without losing energy in the yaw or managing it. I can foil without them, but with them I can really take off on anything, and they have no drawbacks while flying, and even help when touching down, as the board doesn't yaw so loses minimal speed.

As I use a traditional surf shape I can put them on the rear, but Dave Kalama and others cannot with their whistle tail, so they put one in front.



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"Bonzer Sups?" started by exiled