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Drafting

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Created by teatrea > 9 months ago, 15 May 2012
teatrea
QLD, 4161 posts
15 May 2012 8:43PM
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Vid over on sup racer by the quick blade man talking about drafting , he is all for it.
How do you racers feel about it , would you be pissed if someone drafted you a whole race then went past you at the finish.Is there an un written rule amongst racers that you share the work load. I would rekon i would be hard to draft in open ocean conditions , but still water is a different story.
I only bring this up because i plan to draft as many people as possible in the creek to creek race and dont want anyone getting pissed with me

Piros
QLD, 4794 posts
15 May 2012 9:02PM
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Andrew it's all part of racing , very easy in still water , very hard in open ocean , swimming , running , cycling or paddling .It's all part of the sport , plan your race and plan your move , if you are in front , you are in front. If you are behind plan your move to take the lead. When in front make it as hard as you can for the guy behind you.

There's no Queensberry rules in water racing , you do everything you can to give yourself the advantage to win the race.....

laceys lane
QLD, 16775 posts
15 May 2012 9:16PM
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teatrea said...

Vid over on sup racer by the quick blade man talking about drafting , he is all for it.
How do you racers feel about it , would you be pissed if someone drafted you a whole race then went past you at the finish.Is there an un written rule amongst racers that you share the work load. I would rekon i would be hard to draft in open ocean conditions , but still water is a different story.
I only bring this up because i plan to draft as many people as possible in the creek to creek race and dont want anyone getting pissed with me


if you really don't like it stop paddling for five seconds. it's quite common for a group of paddlers to take leads, but it gets tricky close to the finish line. like when does the draft sharing stop. the last guy drafting is fresher then the lead man etc

teatrea
QLD, 4161 posts
15 May 2012 9:27PM
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Yep its an interesting topic , remember when Duncan Armstrong beat Matt Biondi (i think) and they accused him of moving over into the lane and drafting. Forget what Olympics it was but it was when Laurie lawrence went nuts All i know is , it does save a lot of energy. Just adds to the race tactics though , i wouldnt like to see no drafing rules.

RJK
QLD, 602 posts
15 May 2012 9:27PM
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Coming from a cycling background, personally I try and always take a turn at the front, for as long as I can, even if it is only brief. Probly not the smartest game plan, tried that at kings cliffs bop and burnt out.

Think it's pride issues!

Guess I might learn with experience?

Maybe it's finding a balance between drive to win and pride in self accomplishment

rager
QLD, 437 posts
15 May 2012 10:13PM
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It helps to draft behind someone when you're up the back of the creek at 5:30 in the morning and there are logs in the water hey CMC

ShireSUP
NSW, 982 posts
15 May 2012 10:17PM
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teatrea said...

Vid over on sup racer by the quick blade man talking about drafting , he is all for it.
How do you racers feel about it , would you be pissed if someone drafted you a whole race then went past you at the finish.Is there an un written rule amongst racers that you share the work load. I would rekon i would be hard to draft in open ocean conditions , but still water is a different story.
I only bring this up because i plan to draft as many people as possible in the creek to creek race and dont want anyone getting pissed with me


This may not help, but I used to swim ocean races, even before it was a big weekly event, and if someone drafted, they suddenly found a warm current, usually worked

Perhaps attach a hose?

Swanie
QLD, 1372 posts
15 May 2012 10:31PM
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Interesting thread. This is a bit of a hot topic at the time trials. Split decision about it as well. I have done both... Drafted of others.... and hated it when someone drafts off me. Go figure... I just want the best of both as long as it suits me

RJK
QLD, 602 posts
15 May 2012 10:41PM
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If the rules don't say otherwise then definatly draft as its a massive advantage and adds to the mind games that are all appart of the fun of racing. However when drafting is used, that race cannot be a judge of the fastest/strongest paddler. Maybe the smartest/best game player wins, still fast but maybe not the fastest??

laceys lane
QLD, 16775 posts
15 May 2012 10:56PM
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if it was up to me i would say no drafting

surf4fun
WA, 1310 posts
15 May 2012 9:05PM
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How do you enforce no drafting when there is 1 point all racers are heading for? Easy enough if as Jim says it is in flat water and people are in lanes but otherwise that is the nature of the sport. You will always have one person in front meaning the others will be following behind.

I drafted Dale and Alain the other weekend but also took my turn out in front, what goes around cones around. I also was drafting someone at the SUPA Australia nationals and they did exactly what Lacey says and put on the breaks.

I said this after seeing photos from the 11 cities race last year, its only a matter if time until we see teams made up of paddlers with specific tasks, eg, lead out or domestique, sprint paddler etc just like cycling teams.

NNSUP
NSW, 1209 posts
15 May 2012 11:42PM
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Coming from a cycling background I understand why racers draft but the general rule is that you take turns at the front. In cycling the guys get pretty pissed off if you free load the whole time. At the SUPA Nationals I had someone draft me for nearly 2 laps so I just stopped paddling, they were forced to head around me and I went off in the other direction to sprint away. I just had to reply after reading the previous post and recognising the face
The guy on Sup Racer made some good points.

surf4fun
WA, 1310 posts
15 May 2012 10:50PM
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No way was it two laps, I was out in front for the first half if the first lap and you stopped just over half way through the second lap. I am also aware of others who drafted the whole way.

Great first post by the way.

surf4fun
WA, 1310 posts
15 May 2012 10:55PM
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Swanie, after our last time trial where everyone started at the same time allowing for drafting we have decided our next race will be a proper time trial with a staggered start, just like this weekends creek to creek race. It will determine who is the better paddler more so than tactician.

jenkz
WA, 782 posts
15 May 2012 11:34PM
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Your boards made for drafting behind Cam.

PeterP
607 posts
16 May 2012 4:10AM
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I reckon the Olympic rowing facilities like the one Jim Terrell just raced at this weekend will solve the drafting - each paddler has a lane and it's each to their own.

All other races must allow drafting as it's just impossible to police - and if it was that easy to draft then we'd have a train at all our time-trials. We don't, because the top guys are flat out virtually at max hullspeed so if you make one mistake and lose the hump you are doomed, you just will not get back on. Climbing the hump to get back on when the guys are already at max speed kills you.

For some reason I can't view Jims video, it just doesn't load so I have no idea what he said. Unfortunately we have no Olympic canoe paddling facilities here , they would be great for comparing speeds across the world. Jim was averaging 12km/h over 2000 meters and 13.5km/h over 200 meters - not sure what equipment he was on or whether there was a tailwind - but those are phenomenal speeds for flatwater! Have a max 5knot tailwind rule or something to that effect and we should be able to compare speeds across the world. Trying to find a piece of suitable water here so we can get cracking - Jim just set the bar! For all other racing, draft your heart out when conditions permit.....

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
16 May 2012 7:13AM
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rager said...

It helps to draft behind someone when you're up the back of the creek at 5:30 in the morning and there are logs in the water hey CMC


Yep right after the lost shark discussion and 8 degrees. Lovely experience.

As a demonstration of being a nice guy rather than paddle past laughing you actually stopped.

Good discussion on drafting, like Piros said if they are behind you and relaxing on the wash you can zig or zag, speed up, slow down whatever. You control it, it's better than them being in front and disappearing over the horizon.

ScarbsSUP
WA, 354 posts
Site Sponsor
16 May 2012 11:15AM
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Hi Guys,

Drafting or wash riding is just part of racing, it brings tactics into the game which makes it much more fun and interesting, it also evens out the field as a smart paddler then has a chance over the naturally biggest and strongest paddlers.

I think it will create teams as in cycling which will work as a group until the last 1km or so where it will then be every person for themselves.

There are skills required to draft well, and other skills required to shake a drafter and still more skills to know when to break and how to break so you surprise your leading paddler. It makes the game much more interesting and skillful rather than just the fastest paddler always wins.

I also cycle and love sharing the drafting in groups. It makes such a difference in cycling, especially in a headwind. It may not be such an advantage in paddling if there is a strong tail wind???

Good discussion and I'm definitely all for drafting.

DM

DavidJohn
VIC, 15762 posts
16 May 2012 1:33PM
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All race boards should have a big pointy V shaped nose and a big cutout V tail shape to match.. So you can get real close.. and you could like a group of paddlers almost do that human centipede thing..

DJ

rager
QLD, 437 posts
16 May 2012 1:43PM
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Rubbings racing. Makes things more interesting for sure

angie pangi
QLD, 1754 posts
16 May 2012 2:40PM
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Here is the video from Supracer www.supracer.com/jim-terrell-drafting/

IMO i'm all for drafting it keeps things interesting and you have to think ahead about what everyone else around you is gonna do. Like, when you do go and try and break away?

The Sup 11 cities race in Holland was an excellent example of drafting and tactics and it taught me alot.

Here is a pic of the lead pack in hollands 11 city tour.


I think the only rule that you can possibly bring in is the same class drafting, eg. a 12'6 can only draft a 12'6 and shouldn't draft a 14ft etc.

I've heard some talk about gender drafting aswell eg, a female can't wash ride a male. I'm not sure if this would work cos in my eyes if a female can hang onto a good male paddlers wash (Which isn't easy) they derserve to be up there, but that's my opinion.

X angie

kissa
NSW, 523 posts
16 May 2012 2:56PM
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I've tried to draft behind Sam on his Ace. Maybe i can't find the sweet spot but it doesn't seem to help much. The BOP boards are easy to sit behind though....

paul.j
QLD, 2631 posts
16 May 2012 2:57PM
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It's easy draft your own class and own gender!!! if the girls want to race in the same divison as the guys then let them draft with the guys but if they compete in a girls divison then sorry NO drafting of the guys!!! i would call that CHEATING!!

Drafting is a good part of the racing but just have to keep it fair.

Jacko

angie pangi
QLD, 1754 posts
16 May 2012 3:07PM
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paul.j said...

It's easy draft your own class and own gender!!! if the girls want to race in the same divison as the guys then let them draft with the guys but if they compete in a girls divison then sorry NO drafting of the guys!!! i would call that CHEATING!!

Drafting is a good part of the racing but just have to keep it fair.

Jacko


So are you saying im cheating here? What about the 2 guys behind me? Should they be told to get off my wash?


X angie

paul.j
QLD, 2631 posts
16 May 2012 3:13PM
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yep cheating!! and yes they should not be there but if they want to go that slow thats up to them.

PTWoody
VIC, 3977 posts
16 May 2012 3:15PM
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I have no objection to gender drafting as long as it goes both ways (no innuendo intended). If I could keep up with Annabel or Angie or Ali (yes it's a hypothetical), then I should be able to draft them.

rager
QLD, 437 posts
16 May 2012 3:21PM
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Baked beans for breakfast might stop a few getting too close

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
16 May 2012 1:42PM
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Thay have been doing it in motor sport for years. I think banning it in a race is a joke. If ya dont like it dont race, or start doing it yourself. Nobody told you not to do it. Sheesh

rambooc1
QLD, 326 posts
16 May 2012 4:06PM
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Our rules in outrigging is not to draft off a 2 man if you're in a one man, otherwise all else goes.

PeterP
607 posts
16 May 2012 2:17PM
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Chick drafting is fine - both ways. They'll have to find a guy thats going the right pace (like a chick) for them to make it work anyway. And what are you guys doing on 12'6's anyway?

paul.j
QLD, 2631 posts
16 May 2012 4:35PM
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Just a quick example on what i mean by gender drafting.... If i went to all the races and thought you know what i'm not going to win i might just help Ang win and let her draft me the whole way is that ok? I wouldn't do this by the way!!!

My theroy is if you want to play with the Open mens class then its all free game but if you pay to compete againt other girls dont cheat by drafting of a guy in a different race pretty much.

Who thinks i'm in trouble by the way!!!



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"Drafting" started by teatrea