Kite or sail for newbie

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BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
14 Dec 2009 7:11pm
I know that many of you kite or sailboard or both. I am wondering what people think would be the best way to spend some hard earned.
I am a long time board rider, surf/snow/skate and live on Port Phillip bay so looking for a sport for when it is blowing South West.
Also would like to carry gear 400 metres to the beach(lends itself to kite)
Would appreciate any input.
Dave
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
14 Dec 2009 7:42pm

Hi Dave,
Kite is the go, less gear, weight, greater wind range per kite, more dangerous....more fun, more powerfull feel, very portable, generaly easer on the body...untill you crash, very reliable seabrease in you area suitable for kite.
Was a good wave at prk Sunday....but wind came up 20/25knts...so I chucked the sup on the beach & went back out on the kite & Terrorised all the mal riders that have been givin me a hard time over the last few weeks[}:)]...best fun I've had for some time

JonathanC
JonathanC
VIC
1024 posts
VIC, 1024 posts
14 Dec 2009 8:03pm
Kiting is also faster to learn than windsurfing, you will be ripping this summer rather than windsurfing that really takes years to get to the adrenaline stage. Agree with Dean, perfect for bay sea breeze.

Dean, you look like 007 with a rocket pack on in that jump photo and someone has photo shopped it out....classic
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
14 Dec 2009 7:53pm
I have done both, but gave Kiting away... Saw one too many kiters getting dragged across beaches and through carparks with no control. No matter what anyone says, QR systems can and do fail, I had it happen to me.

Jonathan is right, the learning curve is steeper for a kite to at least get out there and get moving quickly. However with modern windsurf learner gear it is not far behind.

My preference is to windsurfing because I love surfing waves on whatever craft. I have seen some kite surfers do some pretty cool stuff, but I am a fan of the way a windsurfer can ride a wave.
BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
14 Dec 2009 8:54pm
Well that is 2 for kites and if I may say they are not from young punks. which suits me
Also love both those photos
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
14 Dec 2009 9:07pm
Windsurfed for 20 years. Kiting for 10 years. I have no windsurf gear but I have a quiver of excellent kiting gear that gets used lots. Sort of says it all.

Windsurfing is easier to get started but harder to get good. (Most sailboarders never learn to gybe properly or deal with shore break or land a decent jump. Minor mistakes usually end up with a fall.) You can stand around on a big floaty board with a small sail and basically go yachting standing up. I was up and riding on my second go.

Kiteboarding is easy enough to learn but it takes about a month of practise to get the hang of it. It's still fun while you are a beginner but it's a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy while jumping up and down. Turning and jumping and all that are ridiculously easy one you get the hang of it. Even if you stuff up a turn the kite holds you up and you can ride on thinking you are the collest dude on the water.)

You should have lessons so you can start off safely. Lessons don't really help you progress. You still need to practise.

Modern kiteboarding gear is super safe. Super compact. Fairly robust and easy to use.

About a third of the time you will be out kiting and either sailboarders will be sitting around watching, or not even come to the beach. In the past sailboards had the edge in very strong conditions but a two kite quiver will now take you comfortably from 12-15 knots up to well over 40 knots.
russh
russh
SA
3027 posts
SA, 3027 posts
14 Dec 2009 8:52pm
By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
14 Dec 2009 9:32pm
russh said...

By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.


Hey russh....for such a "feminine" sport.......more than 50 have been kiled since 2000
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
14 Dec 2009 9:42pm
russh said...

By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.


WTF
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
14 Dec 2009 9:48pm
When I took up kiting I gave my windsurfing gear away and have never wanted it back.

Have lessons for safety and speeding up the initial learning curve.

Dale

BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
15 Dec 2009 8:25am
I wondered if this may be a sort of skiing V snowboarding question. Thanks for the replys so far.

LSD are people killed in the water or is when they touchdown on land, I have seen a few kites wrapped around the palms on St Kilda boulavard
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
15 Dec 2009 8:51am
IMO.. Defiantly windsurf.. .. I'm happy to spend some time with you Dave to get you started.

With windsurfing you don't need others to help launch and land.. and there's no problem with a crowd on the beach..

There's also no problem if the wind comes up or dies off or changes direction.

Maybe you should buy a Naish 14 for down winders and just buy a windsurfing rig for it..

There were a few sailing the Naish 14's in the Breakwater to Beacon windsurfing race on Sunday.

DJ
russh
russh
SA
3027 posts
SA, 3027 posts
15 Dec 2009 9:23am
LSD said...

russh said...

By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.


Hey russh....for such a "feminine" sport.......more than 50 have been kiled since 2000



well that's certainly something to be proud of.

SUP with a mast track and foot straps - great fun when the wind is too light to kite and some extra down the line speed from a cross off.

Lighten up!
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
15 Dec 2009 12:00pm
BWDave said...

I wondered if this may be a sort of skiing V snowboarding question. Thanks for the replys so far.

LSD are people killed in the water or is when they touchdown on land, I have seen a few kites wrapped around the palms on St Kilda boulavard


No....their killed for doing it!........by pole boarders
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
15 Dec 2009 12:17pm
Dave
It is probably worth noting that a lot of kiters spent 15 - 20 years absolutely hooked on windsurfing. When kiting came along it just gave them a new challenge. Then SUP came along and another new challenge. The fun is in the learning! and the learning can go on for years

Your dilemma is not really a dilemma!

Enjoy the choice you make between windsurfing and kiting. The one you choose to do will be the most fun for you.


Dale
LSD
LSD
VIC
763 posts
LSD LSD
VIC, 763 posts
15 Dec 2009 12:19pm
russh said...

LSD said...

russh said...

By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.


Hey russh....for such a "feminine" sport.......more than 50 have been kiled since 2000



well that's certainly something to be proud of.

SUP with a mast track and foot straps - great fun when the wind is too light to kite and some extra down the line speed from a cross off.

Lighten up!


Hey russh....you lighten up! you started bagging another sport...with feminine comments...most of us here have poleboarded for 10 years or more
Many riders are involved in all water sports, they all have pro's & con's

Glenn's 8'2 sup/sailboard i made a few months ago.....(& why do you need feminine foot straps when its light?)

8'2 sup/kiteboard......

Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
15 Dec 2009 12:39pm
The real problem with taking up another sport is how do you want to spend your time. If you are keen on SUP, kiting and windsurfing can be a distraction to the main game. You really need to push yourself to drive down the coast to surf if you know that a sea breeze is going to hit in the afternoon and you can go kiting or windsurfing. The bottom end for kiting pushes well into the top end of the fun wind range for SUP. Are you going to want to paddle into a 15 knot breeze when you can be riding and jumping?

You can get a sailboard rig to attach to some SUPs. They are designed for small sails and flat water cruising. Starboard explicitly tell you not to jump them.

For kite safety, most of the fatalities come from people being pounded into hard objects like rocks and seawalls and reefs and breakwaters etc.

The early kites were very powerful, had minimal range, an inherent instability, and dodgey safety systems.

The kites would do something bad (either through being set up wrong or through instability), recover, then slingshot the rider. If there was anything hard in the way then the rider would be injured or killed.

Modern kites have full depower on the bar. You just let go of the bar and the kite spills sufficient power for you to either ride out whatever is happening or go for the backup safety. Most kites have three levels of safety, push out the bar, release to a flag out leash, eject the kite completely. In 10 years I have never had to use more than the basic safety systems. It might be different for you.

Self-launching and self-landing is easy. You just have to learn how to do it. WInd changes and dropping off are also not a problem. You just learn how to deal with it. I swim in a lot less with my kites than I ever did with sailboards (actually the last time I swam in was 27 February 2005 I keep a log book. ). Kiting in the surf is huge fun and way easy. You can jump off or over big waves or smash them and run away if they are about to clobber you.

As Dean points out, you can kite on any kind of board you want. I learned on a 9' mal with a stunt kite. I now have (or have access to) twintip, kite surf, kite race, surf and SUP boards that I can play on with a kite. I've ridden sheets of ply as well. All good fun.
paul.j
paul.j
QLD
3381 posts
QLD, 3381 posts
15 Dec 2009 12:13pm
Kite or downwind sup is my vote!!! i have never wind surfed but how hard could it be, have you seen the guys who do it
NC Surfer
NC Surfer
142 posts
142 posts
15 Dec 2009 10:32am
Windsurfed for 20 years, switched to kiting for 10 years. I just switched back to windsurfing. SUP made me miss windsurfing.
russh
russh
SA
3027 posts
SA, 3027 posts
15 Dec 2009 1:27pm
russh said...

By all means express you feminine side and get a kite.


should have read = clown - taking the piss - wrong emot-icon.

Baiting friends that kite, sup, goat boat, drive fords, drink imported beer etc has been standard s&&t st**ring behaviour among mates / fellow surfers since time began - I didn't realise some were a little sensitive on the forum.

By the way Paul J- windsurfing is as easy as it looks - just grab a wave board and blast out their get a bit air, guage some decent bottom turns and chuck a bit of spray off the top - I'm sure someone will lend you some gear.
Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
15 Dec 2009 1:31pm
Jacko,
I am sure , someone like your could be doing push loops in say 2-3 years best case, so yer windsurfing is pretty easy (you will probally need to move to WA also).

Had a windsurfing mate who started kiteboarding and was going for handle passes in after about 3 months....

Different sport, like comparing golf to tennis.

Get over it all..
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
15 Dec 2009 2:13pm
Scotty Mac said...



Different sport, like comparing golf to tennis.




Tiger Woods got the best score!

Maybe he should have taken up SUP!
BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
15 Dec 2009 7:47pm
Thanks for everyones input.
I don't know how to do the "Daletor said...." thingy but your point about the fun being in the learning is a good one.
And Georg and LSD thanks for the facts.
Think I will give them both a bash over the next couple of months and see how it goes.
Sure I will have a blast.
Dave
daletor
daletor
VIC
301 posts
VIC, 301 posts
15 Dec 2009 8:14pm
BWDave said...

Thanks for everyones input.
I don't know how to do the "Daletor said...." thingy but your point about the fun being in the learning is a good one.
And Georg and LSD thanks for the facts.
Think I will give them both a bash over the next couple of months and see how it goes.
Sure I will have a blast.
Dave


To do the "BW dave said" .....just press the little button that says "Quote" at the top of each post which is just to the right of the red thumbs/green thumbs at the top of each post which seemed to have had a great workout on this thread!. Took me ages to work that one out........but the fun is in the learning..... and the achieving

Dale
rogerthecat
rogerthecat
188 posts
188 posts
15 Dec 2009 5:24pm
As a windsurfer of over 20 years I am heavily biased.
Seen some nasty accidents on kites (early years and early gear) and some cracking wipeouts windurfing.
The decision for me is risk, if you are offshore on a windsurfer and it all goes "breasts uppermost" you have something to sit on whilst you await rescue and a bloody big flag.
If the same happens on a kiteboard you are a swimmer.
A guy died off N Wales a couple of years ago - lost his kite whilst out back in heavy weather - rescue could not find him in time.

I have also had my 2 lads nose riding the big Starboard, planing with an 8.5m rig which is just as much fun as knobbing about doing old school freestyle moves in light winds.

Good luck testing, and I'm sure whatever you choose will be awesome fun.

Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5126 posts
VIC, 5126 posts
15 Dec 2009 11:41pm
I have read that with a small sail you can sail a SUP at paddling speed. I have seen underpowered sailboards getting into some decent small wave surfing so that might be a possibility for you if you want to pursue the SUP sailing thing.

With a kite if the wind drops out you just roll up the lines, flip the kite on it's back, hop in and use the bridles to sail it in. My kiting mate did this the other week and the upturned kite sails at about the same speed as a small sailing dinghy. He enjoyed it immensely.

I guess you could stroll down to Cosy Corner when there's a 15-20 knot SW and count all the guys and see who's having the most fun.
NC Surfer
NC Surfer
142 posts
142 posts
16 Dec 2009 2:14am
Gorgo said...
......... count all the guys and see who's having the most fun.


That only only proves kiting is easier and cheaper to get into. Windsurfing is handicapped by high costs and even harder learning curves.

That makes windsurfing self limiting.



JB
JB
NSW
2232 posts
JB JB
NSW, 2232 posts
16 Dec 2009 6:42am
I do both (or All) and find,

Kiteboarding (10+ Years) is easier to transport and carry, faster to rig (sometimes 50/50), an easy buzz, the difference between the student and the instructor is about 2 - 4 hours in most cases, extremely adaptable to a large variety of conditions and you can get away with a lot with one board and one kite.

Windsurfing (20+ years) is something you need to do right, otherwise it's not that much fun (at an intermediate-advanced level), as far as learning you'll be able to sail a big board easily after a few quick tips and maybe a lesson (depending on weather your a thinker or not), I find windsurfing far more rewarding after a good session than Kiteboarding, but can make you want to destroy the world after a bad one. It is harder to be good at windsurfing than kiteboarding (IMO) but when you learn something, you feel really good.

Conclusion, If I lived in an area with lots of wind, I think I would Windsurf more than Kite. At 95 kgs, wind sports do not like me much and the Nthrn Bchs tend to max out at 12 - 15 knts, so I usually Kite. But hey, if your looking to blow some coin, get both!

JB
BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
16 Dec 2009 8:16am
daletor said...

BWDave said...

Thanks for everyones input.
I don't know how to do the "Daletor said...." thingy but your point about the fun being in the learning is a good one.
And Georg and LSD thanks for the facts.
Think I will give them both a bash over the next couple of months and see how it goes.
Sure I will have a blast.
Dave


To do the "BW dave said" .....just press the little button that says "Quote" at the top of each post which is just to the right of the red thumbs/green thumbs at the top of each post which seemed to have had a great workout on this thread!. Took me ages to work that one out........but the fun is in the learning..... and the achieving

Dale


BWDave
BWDave
VIC
239 posts
VIC, 239 posts
16 Dec 2009 8:18am
Ok, Still not too good at the computer but thanks all for the info.

JB I am over 100kgs. Will this make the kite more dififcult?
LouD
LouD
WA
642 posts
WA, 642 posts
16 Dec 2009 7:12am
IMO...

If you want to ride decent waves only-windsurf.

If you want fun in all (windy) conditions-kite.

BTW, you do not need someone to launch and land you when kiting.

At>100kg, id be leaning towards kiting.
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