In our household we subscribe to Greenfleet** to offset the carbon footprint of our cars - see www.greenfleet.com.au/

Using the Greenfleet calculator, one board's lifetime CO2 emissions could be offset by one tree at a cost of $3 through Greenfleet (gives new meaning to the term 'log'). Interestingly, this is very much cheaper than the $US 8.16 CO2 cost quoted in the article. Planting trees also has co-benefits in terms of salinity and biodiversity.

** "Greenfleet is an Approved Abatement Provider under the Australian Government's Greenhouse Friendly? initiative. This means the methodology behind our offset program has undergone independent scrutiny and meets appropriate standards.

Greenfleet offsets greenhouse gas emissions by planting forests that soak up carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Our forests are made up of a wide variety of Australian native trees that also help to reduce soil erosion and salinity, improve water quality and provide habitat for native animals."

Agreed. I believe in the whole foot print thing but carbon trading....

wow..... Loving the LCA into surfing! I work in the field of environmental management (esp with the LCA/ EMS and now carbon trading) and never even thought of the LCA of my own boards! great to see a real eye opener!

the whole carbon trading needs to be worked out / sorted.. but thats a rank im not about to get into!! :)

Carbon trading is meant to factor the cost of carbon into products which in turn is meant to make low carbon products more attractive to the consumer. That's the theory anyway and the good old capitalist way.

I would be happier if there were more positive incentives that result in genuine carbon reductions. Dicking around with solar panels on Melbourne suburban roofs is kind of pointless when the same money would buy 5 times as much power from a solar power station which could be sited somewhere the sun shines a bit more frequently.

Similarly, I will be as green as anybody, until you try to stop me driving down the surf or price surfboards out of existence.

oliver said...

I see the concept of carbon credits as a big can of worms, but I'd subscribe to it if I had faith in the concept or I could ever understand how it works.

From my limited understanding, the only way to offset carbon emissions is to plant trees. So your money goes to plant a tree. Well that makes sense, my money goes to someone to plant a seedling on some private property or elsewhere that one day will become a tree.

But a seedling is not really going to have much impact as it will take years before it grows and any emissions are offset. How can I track the progress of my tree? What guarantee do you get that this seedling will still be around in one month let alone 10 years? Are there some trees that are better to plant than others? Is the land that my tree is planted on guaranteed never to be developed? Should my seedling die, will another another seedling be planted to replace it or will I get my money back?

Oliver relax! the amount the rest of the world are polluting our impact is very small. If you can get the US and a billion Chinese and a billion Indians on the program then you can make a difference. Understandably they want all the toys which is really not sustainable without major changes in technology.

This generation will go down as the ones that really F****d it for everyone in the future.

Like supping at a really crowded surf break without a leash or kiting Bondi(in joke sorry).

Diver said...
Seems to be a way to extract some form of value from an asset that currently doesn't exist, creating a market bubble that will eventually burst. Wonder when that happened recently????

The idea is that the asset is a clean atmosphere. To keep the atmosphere clean we need to invest in things that reduce CO2 or absorb it. We call this investing in carbon credits, carbon trading or a tax on carbon but its all essentially the same thing.

So in order to preserve the value of the asset (which we all have a stake in as humans) we invest in areas like clean energy or the aforementioned plantations that absorb CO2. The problem is nobody has agreed on just how much a clean atmosphere is worth as an asset (eg what should the price on carbon be?). So this obviously makes decisions on investing in carbon credits difficult. In theory the plantation that you buy into now will be worth more when the price of carbon is set and/or that plantation grows naturally as a business. Needless to say this all depends on a lot of things.

Brooko said...
I agree Wait untill you get the tele marketers from India trying to sell you carbon credits like I got on Friday wtf ??

There will be more of that sort of thing occurring as momentum builds for a tax on carbon. It brings to mind the mid to late 90's when every man and his dog got into dotcom startups. I fully expect the carbon trading market to be just as messy and have a similar number of dead ends. If you do decide to invest in carbon credits I'd encourage you to do good background research and dont get duped by the wild schemes that are going to inevitably arrive.

oliver said...

Planting trees are the only thing we can do that will absorb CO2 and reduce emissions. Clean energy just reduces the amount of CO2 that would normally be omitted, so calling it "Clean" is a bit of a furfy - it's just less dirty.

Not true. There are other methods like fostering algae growth in the oceans and creating biochar. But greater plant cover is the most obvious and the no-brainer when it comes to carbon reduction. Clean energy is very much an appropriate term. Replacing a coal plant with solar or wind will reduce emissions. You cannot replace a coal plant with trees.

While you may not feel clicking on the green icon is going to do much I think you are rather conceited if you believe that one individuals effort will amount to anything in this situation. What is needed is a global shift in conciousness (no less!) and by being the sort of person who clicks on those green icons and creates an environment where companies and consumers are both vying to be green then you are doing your bit. By actively choosing not to invest in such ventures you are voting against their importance. That is your choice.

As for the CO2 footprint of surfing yes it would be quite high but its all relative at least we're not tow-in surfing or sky-diving. If that really worries you then mover closer to the beach or buy a fuel efficient car. But if you really want to take the issue of reducing CO2 seriously then sacrifices WILL have to be made. Its unpleasant but its the truth. Hopefully the economic growth generated by the change to a cleaner civilization will outweigh the disruption it causes.

Of course I agree wholeheartedly that we should all do our bit to sequester carbon by buying carbon-fiber surfboards too. I am saving up to sequester 14 feet of carbon as soon as I can.

mm its more than planting trees,,,, lots more..

planting trees has only a band aid effect - and most of teh trees should be planted by now for CPRS/ NGERS,

The focus now should be leading towards sustainability - more efficient cars, introduction of cleaner production methods, and those that are involved in the CPRS/NGERS is a means for them to look at introducing more efficient practices. Planting trees can help --- but its not the solution..

I don't think we should 'sweat the small stuff'. The carbon footprint of a surfboard is tiny in comparison to our annual per capita emissions (28 tonnes per person in Australia according to http://www.garnautreview.org.au/chp7.htm). And when we are surfing, we are not watching the plasma or doing donuts, so our carbon emissions will be quite small.

Its the other big things we need to worry about - cars, household energy consumption, and the emissions efficiency of the $ we earn at work (the latter one for the bosses to figure).

Plantations offsets are a bit of a short term band aid solution - and won't hold back the tide of emissions from our energy use for long. We do need to change the emissions intensity of our energy use if we are going to address the problem.

That change will involve a a technical solution (for example, cars that run on low to zero emissions electricity or renewable biofuels). Some form of a GLOBAL price on carbon is a must to allow this to happen - whether it be emissions trading or a carbon tax. It will mean that the 'market' will ensure that the required emissions reductions are achieved. It will be a rough ride to begin with, but if we want to get there - and we probably do need to - we can get there.

Yeah, in sustainable energy. We're very big on LCA and Triple Bottom Line assessments.

It's difficult not to be skeptical of climate change and carbon credits - the PM's key advisor on Climate Change is Ross Garnaut who also happens to be the Chairman for Lihir Gold.

I had a look at their operations some time ago on the tiny island of Lihir in PNG:

www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1sQMgnrQTqT6HqbHgYHatkVh4S-k&source=embed&hl=en&geocode&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&ll=-3.128775,152.634258&spn=0.066591,0.091238&z=14

You don't need to be an expert to see that this guy doesn't quite practice what he preaches.

"... In 1995, Garnaut was offered the Chairmanship of a new PNG mining company, Lihir Gold Limited. The company's main mine is on the island of Lihir, 700 kilometres north east of Port Moresby. This large open-cut gold mine generates huge taxes and export revenues for PNG. It is also a serious polluter of the coral reefs and ocean floor around Lihir Island, as mine tailings which contain traces of cyanide and heavy metals are loaded on barges and dumped on the nearby ocean floor. Meanwhile, post-processing waste is discharged by pipeline 1.5 kilometres out to sea. In June 2000 there was a cyanide spill at the mine... " - newmatilda.com/2008/02/25/who-ross-garnaut%3F

oliver said...

It's difficult not to be skeptical of climate change and carbon credits - the PM's key advisor on Climate Change is Ross Garnaut who also happens to be the Chairman for Lihir Gold.

I had a look at their operations some time ago on the tiny island of Lihir in PNG:

www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1sQMgnrQTqT6HqbHgYHatkVh4S-k&source=embed&hl=en&geocode&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&ll=-3.128775,152.634258&spn=0.066591,0.091238&z=14

You don't need to be an expert to see that this guy doesn't quite practice what he preaches.

Oh Oliver what have you got against Papua New Guineans

I really dont think Australia has earned the right to criticise anyone over GHG emissions especially not PNG who have very progressive policies. You guys are still stuck in the 20th Century!

If you had taken a good look at Lihir you would know they are phasing out their diesel generators in favour of geothermal power from the volcano there. Massively cutting GHGs in the process. We are unlikely to just stop using gold and Lihir is a good resource for that and they are doing it a lot more sustainably then many other mines.

PNG is preparing to play a major role in carbon trading due to the large rainforests we have. You have to be very naieve to criticise Professor garnaut for taking an interest in a country (which btw he has lifelong ties to) which will play a key role in the near future.

Lobes said...

oliver said...

It's difficult not to be skeptical of climate change and carbon credits - the PM's key advisor on Climate Change is Ross Garnaut who also happens to be the Chairman for Lihir Gold.

I had a look at their operations some time ago on the tiny island of Lihir in PNG:

www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1sQMgnrQTqT6HqbHgYHatkVh4S-k&source=embed&hl=en&geocode&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&ll=-3.128775,152.634258&spn=0.066591,0.091238&z=14

You don't need to be an expert to see that this guy doesn't quite practice what he preaches.

Oh Oliver what have you got against Papua New Guineans

Errr nothing. What gave you that idea?

Lihir Gold is a publicly listed on the ASX and has operations in Papua New Guinea, Australia and West Africa.

If I was having a go at anyone, it would have been Professor Garnaut (who is Australian). And I wasn't even having a go at him. My comment was a response to you calling me "rather conceited".

Lobes said...

While you may not feel clicking on the green icon is going to do much I think you are rather conceited if you believe that one individuals effort will amount to anything in this situation.

As a key advisor to the State and Commonwealth Governments on climate change he makes me feel more comfortable about driving down the surf and not pressing on green leaves when I buy concert tickets and air tickets.

Pfffft. Stop reading into things too much people. I like the panels and windows of my car as they are.

Lobes said...

What gave me the idea is your not-so-subtle insinuation that Prof Garnaut (who has family in PNG) cannot be trusted because of his connection to a PNG mine. Forget all the Australian companies he may be a director of. Why is it the PNG one that raises the red flag???

And I didnt call you conceited, I called you conceited "if you believe that one individuals effort will amount to anything ".

If you believe you can resolve this whole Global Warming thing yourself then don't let us hold you back. But you wouldnt be that conceited would you

LoL Oliver I know your ways

Posting Guidlines

Don't take the forums too seriously! Topics often go off the rails when people start reading far too much into others comments.

Keep focused on what's being said and not who's saying it.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52360

I have an idea carry a pack of seeds around with you and every time you fart , sow one.It will help you to become carbon neutral!

Seriousley though man has done an almighty job at stuffing the environment thats for sure!But i think we will see an explosion in renewable technologies over the next decade and people in general a becoming more aware , that less is more!

Out with old in with the new , this is what carbon trading prevents in some ways its is basicallly fence sitting trying to keep both sides happy.

Any way every one has a theory i guess time will tell!If you interested in an alternative theory look up a book called solar rain , by a guy called Mitch Battros.
Very thought provoking!