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Natural fibres to replace fibreglass ?

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Created by FRP A week ago, 4 Dec 2018
FRP
177 posts
4 Dec 2018 1:06AM
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Hi

This is a very cool idea. Using wool fiber as a replacement for glass. Makes me wonder if silk fiber could be used also. On my custom made double bass, the luthier, Jim Hamm, used a layer of silk between two veneers of maple for the curved sides to prevent cracks when the bass is 50-100 years old! Some of these natural fibres are very strong.

Cheers

Bob

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12170459

RideTheGlide
11 posts
Wednesday , 4 Dec 2018 11:17PM
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NSP is using coconut husks but still glasses over it:
www.nspsurfboards.com/technologies/#tech-9

I have run across a different unnatural fiber used by some hobby boat builders - rayon that is painted instead of epoxied. This is done over wood mostly to seal but supposedly adds some strength also. Since rayon is an attempt at faking wool, it makes sense that wool would have similar properties.

windsurftom
NSW, 234 posts
Friday , 7 Dec 2018 7:08AM
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There was a place in France making hemp fibre boards with bio resin.
Also I have seen Cork laminate

benjl
134 posts
Friday , 7 Dec 2018 5:23AM
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Paul Barron is a local shaper here, very innovative. He also invented the patented variable flex bar in surfboards which Channel Islands brought

Gorgo
VIC, 4040 posts
Friday , 7 Dec 2018 10:03AM
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Carbon is "natural". Arguably we already have too much of it.

colas
2836 posts
Friday , 7 Dec 2018 4:05PM
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Select to expand quote
windsurftom said..
Also I have seen Cork laminate


Yes, there are a lot of people trying to use bio-sourced cloth and resins in France.

The most famous is "Notox" www.notox.fr/En/

Gong uses bio-sourced resins, and has a WCKF cork sandwich construction, very useful for kite boards as they dampen the chop.

RSPro (spain) has now a cork pad:
www.rspro.org/products/front-deck-grip

micksmith
VIC, 1227 posts
Saturday , 8 Dec 2018 9:36AM
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Select to expand quote
FRP said..
Hi

This is a very cool idea. Using wool fiber as a replacement for glass. Makes me wonder if silk fiber could be used also. On my custom made double bass, the luthier, Jim Hamm, used a layer of silk between two veneers of maple for the curved sides to prevent cracks when the bass is 50-100 years old! Some of these natural fibres are very strong.

Cheers

Bob

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12170459


So much more to discover out there, some years ago I saw a program on the use and diversity of banana plant as an alternative to man made fibre. The csiro were investigating its potential as an an alternative, I just can't remember what they used as a resin but man it looked strong in their demonstration.
I see also it is used in Japan and probably elsewhere as an alternative to silk.
I applaud any company out there trying different materials to lesson the impact on our environment.

DEEPOceanboard
QLD, 2 posts
Monday , 10 Dec 2018 8:58AM
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Hi All,

We have been experimenting with a bunch of natural fibres over the last year or so.
All are great, but it's just a matter of finding the best application for them.

Expect to see it in our range alot more, in the future.

If we can make the production and quality of our boards, better for all involved, why wouldn't we?

Cheers
Deep

RideTheGlide
11 posts
Monday , 10 Dec 2018 9:41PM
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Select to expand quote
DEEPOceanboard said..
Hi All,

We have been experimenting with a bunch of natural fibres over the last year or so.
All are great, but it's just a matter of finding the best application for them.

Expect to see it in our range alot more, in the future.

If we can make the production and quality of our boards, better for all involved, why wouldn't we?

Cheers
Deep


I think the big issues are production and acceptance. You can get fiberglass cloth in pretty much any weight, width and quantity delivered to you within a few days, or if you have a nearby vendor, pick it up today. The cloth wraps and conforms to board shapes pretty readily without much in the way of special tools or processes. Customers don't have to be persuaded that it is just as strong as fiberglass. Getting enough customers to pay extra (due to production costs) is going to be difficult. Prices for the material won't come down until demand goes up. It needs a less specialized application first, like building supplies - shingles, maybe?

FRP
177 posts
Tuesday , 11 Dec 2018 12:00AM
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Do these wool boards shrink in the wash?????

www.seabreeze.com.auhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12170459

micksmith
VIC, 1227 posts
Tuesday , 11 Dec 2018 6:20AM
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Select to expand quote
DEEPOceanboard said..
Hi All,

We have been experimenting with a bunch of natural fibres over the last year or so.
All are great, but it's just a matter of finding the best application for them.

Expect to see it in our range alot more, in the future.

If we can make the production and quality of our boards, better for all involved, why wouldn't we?

Cheers
Deep


When you say a bunch of natural fibre are you talking banana plant

cbigsup
253 posts
Tuesday , 11 Dec 2018 4:06AM
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Fella had a nice New Deal custom glassed at Earth Technologies.

In LA. Bummer for you lads. Lotsa kuhl stuff your way tho!

tarquin1
70 posts
Today , 12 Dec 2018 1:26AM
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Fiberglass itself isn't that bad. It is mostly natural products. It has a low Co2 level to make. If you take into account growing crops,water used,harvesting them etc to make natural fibers it has a higher Co2 level. Most countries make fiberglass so it is locally produced. Again if you have to fly a natural cloth half way around the world to make a bio board it's not bio at all. Natural fibers also soak up more resin.
I make wooden boards and looked into this quite a bit.
Epoxy is the bad thing. Even the "bio" stuff. The hardener is the worst. The resin isn't too bad. I even read a report that said a 5:1 mix epoxy was better than a 2:1 bio epoxy. It was probably written by the company making the 5:1 epoxy.It's still epoxy and once you soak anything in it it is very difficult and expensive to recycle. That means it doesn't happen.
There are natural resins but they are not clear or as strong so companies don't use them. Expensive as well.

micksmith
VIC, 1227 posts
Today , 12 Dec 2018 6:50AM
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Select to expand quote
tarquin1 said..
Fiberglass itself isn't that bad. It is mostly natural products. It has a low Co2 level to make. If you take into account growing crops,water used,harvesting them etc to make natural fibers it has a higher Co2 level. Most countries make fiberglass so it is locally produced. Again if you have to fly a natural cloth half way around the world to make a bio board it's not bio at all. Natural fibers also soak up more resin.
I make wooden boards and looked into this quite a bit.
Epoxy is the bad thing. Even the "bio" stuff. The hardener is the worst. The resin isn't too bad. I even read a report that said a 5:1 mix epoxy was better than a 2:1 bio epoxy. It was probably written by the company making the 5:1 epoxy.It's still epoxy and once you soak anything in it it is very difficult and expensive to recycle. That means it doesn't happen.
There are natural resins but they are not clear or as strong so companies don't use them. Expensive as well.


BS, I guess you could say asbestos isn't bad ( if you leave it alone ) after all it is natural.

tarquin1
70 posts
Today , 12 Dec 2018 2:16PM
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Please explain why fiberglass is bad. I have read a lot of reports that say "Not Classifiable as a Human Carcinogen". It is classified as an irritant. You definitely can't say that for asbestos.
I am no expert and would like to understand why people think fiberglass is so bad.
As I said I think ( again I am not an expert in the subject) the epoxy is the bad stuff.

colas
2836 posts
6 hours ago , 12 Dec 2018 3:53PM
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Select to expand quote
tarquin1 said..
Please explain why fiberglass is bad.


My comprehension is that it is not that the fiberglass and carbon fibers are dangerous when in your board. It is more before and after: that their manufacturing process is polluting, and they end up as non-recyclable waste.
What can be debatable is the seriousness of this issue, compared to e.g. herbicides and pesticides.

greenleader
QLD, 5179 posts
1 hour ago , 12 Dec 2018 11:30PM
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......all the stuff we stand on from the polystyrene core to the fibres soaked in esters, epoxy's, polyesters and cyano-acrylates and the wonderful foams of polyurethane and klegecell and dozens of other brand names to the acetones, thinners, wax and grease removers....the Q-cell and glasss balloon filler coats with multiple sanding pads, priming, wet sanding and 2 pack polyurethane finishes from production houses that may or may not have filtered production rooms pales into insignificance if they use a layer of natural flax fibre or you don't recycle your household waste....just sayin



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"Natural fibres to replace fibreglass ?" started by FRP