Paddler weight to board volume

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Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
9 Sep 2013 10:07am
Has anyone done any comparisons for race boards? How much do our elite/race paddlers weigh and what is the comparison if any between board volume?
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
9 Sep 2013 10:36am
I'm not sure it's as relevant for race boards as it is for surf.

Take this example: A Race board is usually around 300 Litres give or take.

The actual hull of the board will theoretically float you at 95 liters with the paddler at 95kgs. If you make that board 14' long, 27 wide you really only need to have say a board 2 inches thick. This is totally disregarding any way the board will interact with the water, water coming up the nose, the board, the board leaning over and water coming onto the deck. This is just the hull on perfectly flat water paddled perfectly flat. The only thing affecting the speed of the board is the shape of the hull. To explain what I mean, imagine your board with everything sliced off above the waterline.

Of course this situation never happens. So we have what is called reserve buoyancy. This allows the board to deal with bump, chop, instability, waves etc etc. For flatwater in a lane race or the like you need less reserve buoyancy which means a lower weight, faster board.

To stick with the example above using that same designed hull for the board to deal with bumpy conditions or ocean etc you need more volume, particularly in the forward area. This keeps the board above the water and allows more stability given our falling forwards position.

I have read people asking that if they get a thicker board will it carry more weight, I don't believe so. As it is called reserve buoyancy the added volume really only makes you higher out of the water, the hull will still displace the same amount below the waterline despite its thickness.

For a larger guy you need to have a well designed board or compensate for failings in the design by adding stability and forgivess by going wide.

Sorry for the essay but this is my understanding. Happy to have alternate opinions disputing this. It's a great topic.


To summarise, basically the volume of your race board is really only relevant to its purpose and how it is distributed throughout the design and your own requirements for stability etc.

Deano72
Deano72
NSW
540 posts
NSW, 540 posts
9 Sep 2013 11:50am
Will be interesting to see how some of the new high volume 12'6" boards go in BOP races with decent waves.
Handling that much foam would be pretty challenging for the average punter I'd be thinking.
But perhaps they have been designed for a specific purpose other than surf racing......like elite marathon racing
gregc
gregc
VIC
1299 posts
VIC, 1299 posts
9 Sep 2013 12:35pm
Really good explanation I thought CMC.
Air80
Air80
102 posts
102 posts
9 Sep 2013 2:55pm
Hi, I am by no means a racer but my Sunny King 12"6 flat water race, is 241 ltrs in volume and i am 90kgs

As well as buoyancy there is trim to also consider.

I have found that my position Fore - Aft makes some change to the way the board reacts

ie standing above or 1" (toes position) in front of the centre handle the bow is noisy (makes wash) and actually splits the water meaning the board does not yaw as much, the stern makes a nice wake and it feels as if the board is riding a bump made by the bow then lifting the stern. I do tend to get a bit of water running over the front deck even is glass conditions

if i move 3-4 inches almost same result but less water over the front deck i use this sport if a bit choppy

move another 3-4 inches back (toes behind handle) and the bow goes quiet as the water now slips under the bow but the stern is now noisy as there is no nice wash and the wash "crashes" when on the pull part of the stroke.

As for carrying more weight kind of - a 90kg on a 12"6 board will displace 90kgs of water in the boards area, on a 14" it will still displace 90kg but over a thinner profile, The 12"6 will have a deeper draft than the 14", so with every stroke the 14" finds it easier to move the 90kg of water out of the way as it is thinner.

Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
9 Sep 2013 6:45pm
The theory behind displacing 90kgs in comparison to say 80kgs on the same shaped board is what I was wondering. Would extra foam in lets say thickness help the heavier paddle move easier across the water or create what CMC is calling negative bounancy or do you have to increase length or width to create a more buoyant board.

It had just got me thinking about what weight, height and size favours a SUP paddler at an elite level. At this stage SUP favours people between let's say 70kg to 85kg for professional athletes, rather then a sprint kayaker as an example at between 85kg to 95+ kg
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
9 Sep 2013 7:58pm
No doubt Adapt sup favours a lighter rider , that doesent mean you cant be competetive. I think you just have to find a board that suits you , unfortunately most production sups seem to suit lighter people. Custom design might be the go.Fanatics are one than seem to be good for heavier guys , if you look at that Chase fellow he is a big unit and kills it on a fanatic! If you are strong and have good power for your weight , you may even have an advantage over the lighter guys expecially for sprints , unfortunately at present we dont have sprint races!They call bop style sprint races , but it is far from a sprint race If you find a great board for heavier dudes let me know i can them stop this FKN dieting and training my arse off and put on some weight againGone from over 90kg to 84kg , i am actually stronger too lifting bigger than i ever have. Now just have to give up the smokes and look out Teatree is coming for you
gregc
gregc
VIC
1299 posts
VIC, 1299 posts
9 Sep 2013 8:41pm
That is a really good point about trim isn't it. I find that my 14ft Fanatic is quite sensitive to trim to. I notice that if I am just a little too far forward or a little too far back it changes the whole nature of the board. I have also noticed that if I am heading into wind and I don't sink the nose a fair bit its quite the work out to go fast (well fast for an old fat bloke anyway).
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
9 Sep 2013 8:46pm
interesting from cmc. my experience with no data backup what so ever is some good volume never goes astray dw ing. i also think with big volume you need a a normal weighted board - not a light weight. a low volume board needs to be really light

kelly m has gone from lower volume board to a slightly higher volume . he reckons the the board responses better to increased power paddle plays way better then the lower volume board.


however if you volume up to much_______________



ps disc, absolutely no hardcore evidence to back up my theories
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
9 Sep 2013 9:22pm
When watching my DW vids with my new high front camera mount I'm amazed at how much water flows over the rails and deck at times and it has me thinking if it was 1/2" thicker through the deck and tail it would be much faster.. I guess I am close to the upper weight limit for a paddler paddling this board so it's to be expected.. I can see future 12'6" and 14" boards getting thicker.. not thinner.. unless its a custom shape for a light weight paddler and being thinner is more about saving weight than reducing the deck height.... IMO..

DJ
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
9 Sep 2013 9:43pm
ah, but dj, if you go too thick on a narrow board you end with what i call the 'high rise' effect- easy to topple over unless you have good ground(conditions) and good footings ( a very good paddler).

but imo, i don't believe even for 'avgp' its worth it dw ing wise


the only way to do it well is a canoe which sucks( i've had two). some quiet whispers getting around atm
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
9 Sep 2013 9:51pm
I agree you can only go so thick.. When you look at an Ace you can see there is no possible way for water to ever flow over the rails or tail.. I'm sure that has something to do with why it's so fast.

DJ
Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
10 Sep 2013 12:05pm
I'd probably say DJ that has more to do with the boards shape, the ability to have your feet closer to the water allows for greater stability as well. The only downside I can see with a dugout is having your feet trapped inside the standing area and the difficulty of not being able to control the board in a surfing stance all the way back to the tail
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