Paddling into waves

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kitersi
kitersi
WA
29 posts
WA, 29 posts
31 Mar 2008 11:02am
I need help.
When I paddle for a wave and the board is perpendicular to the wave it only takes a couple of really hard strokes of the paddle and the board starts turning side on. I then have to swap paddle sides which takes time and slows the momentum down. Particularly when I fumble on the hand change.
Is it better to start the paddling at an angle to the wave and try to only paddle one side?
I have just started catching waves and find I get it sometimes however if my direction and timing is slightly out I find it hard to recover in time.
I know its just practice, practice , practice. However any advice on technique would be appreciated.

Cheers
Si
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
31 Mar 2008 3:02pm
Two things...The board..and paddling technique.

Some really short wave boards will 'yaw'..or want to turn with every stroke..no matter how good you are.

Most boards can be controlled with a better technique..You need to paddle deep..close to the board..and with the paddle shaft almost rubbing the rail.

The main thing is to have your left hand way over the rail on the right side of the board when paddling on the right side..and visa-versa.

This keeps the paddle shaft more vertical..Any angle in the shaft when looking straight on..will make the board turn more.

Practice on flat water and you will soon have it down pat...Dipping or holding down the rail on the same side that you are paddling on will also help.

Hope this helps.....Anyone else want to add their thoughts about this?

DJ

also...I took this vid of myself a while ago..It sorta shows what I mean..
NSW, 1613 posts
31 Mar 2008 3:57pm
Paddling in at an angle is one way to attack the problem but there are better long term ways to deal with it. If you put a few extra things in your stroke you can paddle indefinately on just one side. Although there's nothing too wrong with a bit of a combo of better paddling and using angle to get the job done as your skills are improving.

First thing to try to do is to make better use of the paddle catch (when the paddle enters the water). If it starts close to the rail and gets dragged around it until it leaves the water the natural force is to turn the board. So where the paddle goes in to the water is important.

To stop or at least lessen this turning force you can focus on making your paddle catch the water stronger and further away from the rail of the board then concentrate on pulling the paddle in a straight line from then. Even this change will make you paddle straighter. If you take this further the blade will start to take an opposite curved path through the water to your boards rail.

Second thing to learn is the "J" stroke. This will improve your stroke further by making the exit of the paddle from the water cleaner and with a bit of a "J" pattern to it. Basically just before and as the paddle leaves the water you rotate and move your top hand down and to the side. This when done right puts a little squirt of power out to the side helping you stay straighter. It also gets the paddle out of the water cleanly leaving you better balanced for the next stroke with the paddle travelling nice and flat through the air to your next catch like rowers and kayaker's do. This bit starts to make more sense when you're paddling in to the wind.

Sorry this doesn't read any easier but I've just realised this stuff is easier to show on the water than to explain in words.

Hope it helps a bit anyway.



kitersi
kitersi
WA
29 posts
WA, 29 posts
31 Mar 2008 1:46pm
Thanks guys, great advise.
I'll start practicing those techniques tonight.
Cheers
Si
WINDY MILLER
WINDY MILLER
WA
3183 posts
WA, 3183 posts
31 Mar 2008 7:52pm
j strokes are ok in glassy water , but I find them extra hard work in waves n chop, espcially when you want to get max power out of your stick to get on the wave....

my quick tip fix, get a bigger fin, sacrifice looseness for an easier set up...then go back to smaller fin when you've had more experience.
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
31 Mar 2008 11:21pm
WINDY MILLER said...

j strokes are ok in glassy water , but I find them extra hard work in waves n chop, espcially when you want to get max power out of your stick to get on the wave....

my quick tip fix, get a bigger fin, sacrifice looseness for an easier set up...then go back to smaller fin when you've had more experience.


That fin fix may work...even moving it back makes a difference.

I'm also not sure about the J stroke thing on a sup...I don't think it works for us..

I can paddle for as long as I like on one side only without deviating off course..and I don't think I do anything tricky with the paddle.

DJ

JB
JB
NSW
2232 posts
JB JB
NSW, 2232 posts
1 Apr 2008 9:49am
I find that keeping your stroke well in front of your stance helps a lot. I reach as far forward as I can (aim for level with the nose of the board) and start the stroke with a lot of power (like a stabbing action), then slowly reduce the amount of power as the stroke comes back towards me. By Reaching far in front you can turn your board either way by stabbing the water close to your nose, or the other way by starting the stroke far away (like in a "J" stroke). Short powerful stabbing strokes definately work better for catching waves. I find if you stroke past your body you just sink the tail of the board resulting in a more stalled motion from the board and this also makes the board turn during the stroke as it's like doing a kick turn. The more of your forward rail you can keep in the water whilst paddling with power, the straighter your board will stay. Also once you get your balance all sorted you can foot steer once you get some speed up by tilting your board, but this can be quite tricky for beginners or in choppy water though. It's far easier to just get efficient at changing sides of your strokes, because if you eventually change to a smaller board, or if you ride at a surf break that requires you to move around a lot to get in the best position, you will be deviating all over the place during setup for a wave. Smaller surface area blades also make life easier, and allow you to do faster, more efficient strokes, and they are also lighter.

Just my opinion, practice is the main key, as you already know.

Regards,

JB
NSW, 1613 posts
1 Apr 2008 10:03am
I think your diagram exagerates the angle of the blade in the J stroke a bit DJ. In your video your top hand is rotating down and to the side doing enough to clean up the exit of the blade from the water and it's also pushing a little bit of a swirl to the side in each stroke.

It shouldn't be a dramatic movement and shouldn't sacrifice any power at all it's just something little and easy you can put in every stroke like DJ is doing to help clean thing up.
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
1 Apr 2008 10:47am
WINDSURFnSNOW said...

I think your diagram exagerates the angle of the blade in the J stroke a bit DJ. In your video your top hand is rotating down and to the side doing enough to clean up the exit of the blade from the water and it's also pushing a little bit of a swirl to the side in each stroke.

It shouldn't be a dramatic movement and shouldn't sacrifice any power at all it's just something little and easy you can put in every stroke like DJ is doing to help clean thing up.


I agree..and thanks for your tips...also great advise from JB.

I found that my technique has changed a bit since doing that vid..My paddle is now a little shorter..and also has an offset blade.

Because of the offset blade angle I find that I don't do the windmilling thing with my top arm..It must have been the straight blade making me do that.

The paddle seems to slip out now using more of the lower arm and my top hand just goes up and down without going in and out as well.

I'll try and do another vid to try and show what I mean.

DJ

DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
3 Apr 2008 9:23am
I just found this..and think it makes more sense than the J stroke...But it's still a bit unnecessary IMO.

-------------------------
"Use a bow draw stroke into a forward stroke.

Here's my best explanation and hopefully it makes sense.

While paddling on the left side place your paddle in the water with blade paralell to the edge about 1-2 feet away. Pull straight towards rail and then continue into a forward storke. Kind of a reverse J-Stroke really..."
--------------------------

DJ
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
4 Apr 2008 10:18am
More interesting words from a friend called Bill...for those interested in technique...

DJ

---------------------

Most people can accelerate faster with a short stroke, but use a longer stroke for maintaining speed. I spent some time with one of the coaches who teaches kids to paddle here in Maui--he says none of the SUP guys he sees know anything about paddling except Dave Kalama. I'm going to try to make a video with this guy next week if we can hook up. What he showed me so far makes me feel pretty good about my old "how to paddle straight" video. I also used some of his information in the introduction of the Paddle showcase. http://www.kenalu.com/2008/03/2008-maui-paddle-showcase/

From what I've learned so far, your paddle technique depends a lot on your physique, fitness, and nature. Some people are efficient doing things fast, others do better digging. the diggers need paddles that catch hard so the can pull them with maximum power. Fast people need paddles that catch soft so they can apply power when the paddle reaches the middle of the stroke and release the paddle quickly to get the next stroke started.

Most people need to get the paddle closer to the board to reduce the turning force, and that means getting the paddle well under the water, but some people like a variable resistance, which is what ottertails and long blades are about. You start the catch with a small section of blade, and as you push down with your upper hand during the stroke the paddle gets deeper into the water for more power.

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Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
4 Apr 2008 10:45pm
Simon,
The stoke tech stuff is all good but later on you will probally find youself trying smaller fins to loosen up your board. Like the other guys are saying, smaller fins will make your board yaw more also as will shorter boards.

So the best thing is to actually time your run by starting off at 90 degrees to the wave and if you paddle strongly on one side to catch the wave and by the time you are taking off you are actually heading straight to the beach. The stroke stuff will come with time but shorter boards with smaller fins will still yaw a little bit anyway so try starting off at an angle and with a little practice, you will have it down it no time.

Regards,
Scott
kitersi
kitersi
WA
29 posts
WA, 29 posts
4 Apr 2008 9:22pm
Thanks Scotty,
My board is 10'4" so its not that big and does tend to yaw, however I'm slowly getting the knack. My timing is improving and I prefer your method of starting my paddling for a wave side on to it. I find I can generally get around to face the shore within 3 or 4 strong paddle strokes.
I tried the "J" stroke paddling thing and found it didn't make much differenceand felt awkward when paddling with short fast strokes. I was obviously not holding my tongue right.
Thanks all for your advice. I've now got lots of new things to try. Eventually I'll find a style of paddling that works and suits me.

Cheers
Simon
Scotty Mac
Scotty Mac
SA
2060 posts
SA, 2060 posts
4 Apr 2008 11:58pm
Thats it Simon, 10'4" is short. It's the price you pay for manouverability. Doesnt take long to get used to and you will find he paddle technique things will come in time anyways. It's the surfing part that is most important.
Paddling is just a way to get there......
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