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Pandemic SUPing

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Created by Souwester Two weeks ago, 23 Mar 2020
Souwester
WA, 1010 posts
23 Mar 2020 9:43AM
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Hey Breezers, whats everyones thoughts on SUP'ing during the pandemic - I will respect what ever the law says with beach closures if it gets to that but hypothetically if I get in my car and head to the beach on my own at Dawn, no interactions with anyone and SUP on my own for an hour - get back in the car and head home have I become another idiot that should have stayed at home?

Colas - I know France has locked down its beaches and possibly Spain (dont quote me on that), whats your thoughts?

DaveSandan
VIC, 910 posts
23 Mar 2020 1:09PM
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I have considered the same thing if I have to take leave or get stood down, no contact and paddling out to sea is a great way to escape the insanity of the situation. Not sure if we will be allowed to leave our houses in a month from now but as it stands today only essential travel is advised.
For me if I am isolated at home or in the car and ocean with no contact with others that's ok. I just watched 2 paddlers coming in from a point break. They were alone and safe as far as I could see and as long as they go home and have minimal contact according to social distancing they are being safe for all concerned.

OkiWild
32 posts
23 Mar 2020 11:35AM
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Probably 90%+ of our island coast line is "wild," meaning not a resort beach. 99% of my surfing is done with me getting in my car, driving to the spot, surfing, and driving home with zero interaction, or with the one other person I agree to meet at the spot. That said, concerning a "shelter in place" order, even by going surfing, I'm meeting the intent of the policy, and won't stay in the house just because it's somehow not fair to other people who have more community-focused hobbies. Truth be told, I'm a pretty solitary person, and have never felt comfortable in social settings. All of my children are out of the house, with the youngest soon starting his third year at university. As far as "isolation" goes, the whole thing hasn't really affected me.

micksmith
VIC, 1366 posts
23 Mar 2020 4:22PM
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Haven't got a problem with it, they're not saying you can't surf just not in multitudes

Souwester
WA, 1010 posts
23 Mar 2020 2:06PM
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Sounds like SUP surfing is the way to go, just as well I prefer that 9.8 times out of 10.

I joked with mates saying that I have been practicing social isolation for about 4 years now from the moment I started surfing a SUP.

Its coming into prime time for the surf over here, I missed last season with an injury and will go a bit crazy if I miss another, in saying that if the law steps in and closes beaches then that will be that.

Bluehawk
NSW, 12 posts
23 Mar 2020 5:17PM
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Same question but in NSW. Can we SUP surf if beach not closed?

micksmith
VIC, 1366 posts
23 Mar 2020 5:32PM
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Select to expand quote
Bluehawk said..
Same question but in NSW. Can we SUP surf if beach not closed?


Yes

colas
3753 posts
23 Mar 2020 3:32PM
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Select to expand quote
Souwester said..
Colas - I know France has locked down its beaches and possibly Spain (dont quote me on that), whats your thoughts?





As I work from home, am not a social guy (I guess I shake a hand at most once a year), and love to surf alone and early, and I have few friends anyways since I moved in the county recently, I must say I was tempted to go SUPing anyways, and I did on the first lockdown day (last Wednesday), with two other guys, with half a mile between each other :-)

However, now I do not get out from home, because:

- By taking the car, you always have the small probability of an accident, or you can hurt yourself in the surf. And rescue teams are already overwhelmed, especially now that they must take extra precautions when rescueing people, as they could deal with infected people, and the protective gear is quite scarce. Selfishly, I do not think I am more at risk in a car (especially now that the roads are empty) than cutting my hedges at home, but this is a statistical issue: the more we are on the road, the more people will think it is OK to drive, and the more there will be accidents.

- The cops are p*ssed off, since they have been on heavy duty for many years - no vacations - now sent to gas and bludgeon people - among them a lot of doctors, nurses, and firefighters - protesting the budget cuts of this liberal government. And now they are sent without masks trying to control people, so they tend to get quite heavy handed on people having fun while they work. The amount of the fine has gone from 38 euros to more than 300 in mere days, and they are now thinking of jailing people fro going out. They even fine homeless people for being out of their home, or nurses going to work, even with official papers from the hospital.

- As in China or Italy or now the US, the news of the lockdown leaked, and lots of city people fled the cities towards the countryside before the lockdown, fearing being locked for months in small flats. But they are bringing the virus to small towns that have no shops nor medical facilities to handle them, angering the locals. In my town, Seignosse, the mayor tried yesterday to forbid landlords to rent logdings to avoid having too many people at this time of the year where there are not enough workers (shop clerks, cops, nurses...) to maintain a high level of population. And these city people think of it as vacations and flock the beaches, kiss each other, infuriating the authorities that are going to apply dratic measures, even if this happen only in few places, they make the news.

- locked people become bitter and jealous, and seeing surfers on the webcams maddens them with call to the cops to "lock them up!". Designating emblematic sacrificial goats can be a reflex to feel "in the right". Even if a surfer causes no risk compared to some asshole crowding markets to buy a few items 3 times a day.

In summary, I am convinced I could go SUPing without transmitting the virus. But wrt to the social/political state of the country, I must stay at home.


PS: "they're not saying you can't surf just not in multitudes" this is what was said a here week ago... an eternity. It wont last if your local news show groups of people on the beach, or surfers gathering after a session on the beach or parking lot.

tarquin1
332 posts
23 Mar 2020 3:48PM
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I agree Colas. I live in France and as you said things are getting stricter. Expect another announcement today. Longer and stricter confinement. I think we are going to see army in the streets. As in Italy and Spain. So no surprise.
The doctors are pissed as well. Especially when they see or hear of people out having fun when they are doing 48 hr shifts without adequate protection. They were holding up signs on the news last night saying please stay home.
I am pool paddling. Lucky to have a pool.
And most ports are closed here now and pleasure craft are banned.

surfinJ
467 posts
23 Mar 2020 4:08PM
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Agreed. We are all in this together so thinking of all those locked down inside towns and cities, I will behave as well. Solidarity. It is easy for me as I am on the countryside and have the luxury of acres of natural space to be confined in. What a huge challenge for the families stuck in confined spaces.

As an imagination exercise I have traced a covert path to the beach, passing unknown through a few housing areas and some major roads on a waterway, then a hike through the woods to a remote beach. But then that would be selfish I look at this as a big red light, a forced time out.
This too shall pass.

ombakSup
4 posts
23 Mar 2020 5:06PM
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I live in Denpasar, Bali, here's no lockdown. Jokowi, the Indonesian president urged for social distancing, that's what I and my family do.

I sup surf alone, and find empty spots to keep it that way, so I consider that too as social distancing.

The only problem is getting there safe with my bike, there's still a lot of traffic on the streets and when stopping for traffic lights they still fill in all available spaces, ending up shoulder to shoulder. I try to stop somewhere way ahead and hope the light turns green before the crowd swallows me.

I just hope the local people will do strict social distancing, but what I see up to now worries me. If this doesn't work, a forced lockdown is unavoidable. We will know more the coming days..

Kela
49 posts
23 Mar 2020 5:07PM
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Beaches down my way (Mandurah) had a few people enjoying the glorious day on Sunday. Great to see people out and about and practicing correct social distancing. Was nice to paddle out and get a few little sliders.

micksmith
VIC, 1366 posts
23 Mar 2020 9:07PM
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Select to expand quote
colas

PS: "they're not saying you can't surf just not in multitudes" this is what was said a here week ago... an eternity. It wont last if your local news show groups of people on the beach, or surfers gathering after a session on the beach or parking lot.


thats right, so boys and girls be smart be safe and aren't you glad we're in Australia not France

kato
VIC, 2671 posts
23 Mar 2020 9:14PM
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Given that I'm still driving to work, yet were told to stay home. All the trades are still working, yet the schools are shutting down early. I'm going surfing/windsurfing and not going near anyone, work or play. About time they get their messages and actions in sync so we can comply with what will actually make a difference. Just had our first confirmed case today in our shire.

Traff
SA, 104 posts
23 Mar 2020 9:24PM
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ombakSup said..
I live in Denpasar, Bali, here's no lockdown. Jokowi, the Indonesian president urged for social distancing, that's what I and my family do.

I sup surf alone, and find empty spots to keep it that way, so I consider that too as social distancing.

The only problem is getting there safe with my bike, there's still a lot of traffic on the streets and when stopping for traffic lights they still fill in all available spaces, ending up shoulder to shoulder. I try to stop somewhere way ahead and hope the light turns green before the crowd swallows me.

I just hope the local people will do strict social distancing, but what I see up to now worries me. If this doesn't work, a forced lockdown is unavoidable. We will know more the coming days..


I think Indonesia is a ticking timebomb. I hope I'm wrong.

ombakSup
4 posts
23 Mar 2020 7:40PM
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Select to expand quote
Traff said..

ombakSup said..
I live in Denpasar, Bali, here's no lockdown. Jokowi, the Indonesian president urged for social distancing, that's what I and my family do.

I sup surf alone, and find empty spots to keep it that way, so I consider that too as social distancing.

The only problem is getting there safe with my bike, there's still a lot of traffic on the streets and when stopping for traffic lights they still fill in all available spaces, ending up shoulder to shoulder. I try to stop somewhere way ahead and hope the light turns green before the crowd swallows me.

I just hope the local people will do strict social distancing, but what I see up to now worries me. If this doesn't work, a forced lockdown is unavoidable. We will know more the coming days..



I think Indonesia is a ticking timebomb. I hope I'm wrong.


I think ur right, but it's home so we hope for the best..

MangoDingo
NT, 383 posts
23 Mar 2020 9:36PM
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Yep, official line (in Oz) as of tonight is:
"According to the current guidelines, you can still exercise outside, but you'll need to comply with the social distancing measures and stay 1.5 metres apart."

So that's it - grab the boards, it's on.

Mind you, I live I Darwin and there's no bugger here at the best of times - it's like the entire Territory population's been social distancing for decades!
Probably why I moved here in the first place come to think of it.
Paradise.
Stay safe you mob!

BigZ
53 posts
24 Mar 2020 3:58AM
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Select to expand quote
colas said..

Souwester said..
Colas - I know France has locked down its beaches and possibly Spain (dont quote me on that), whats your thoughts?






As I work from home, am not a social guy (I guess I shake a hand at most once a year), and love to surf alone and early, and I have few friends anyways since I moved in the county recently, I must say I was tempted to go SUPing anyways, and I did on the first lockdown day (last Wednesday), with two other guys, with half a mile between each other :-)

However, now I do not get out from home, because:

- By taking the car, you always have the small probability of an accident, or you can hurt yourself in the surf. And rescue teams are already overwhelmed, especially now that they must take extra precautions when rescueing people, as they could deal with infected people, and the protective gear is quite scarce. Selfishly, I do not think I am more at risk in a car (especially now that the roads are empty) than cutting my hedges at home, but this is a statistical issue: the more we are on the road, the more people will think it is OK to drive, and the more there will be accidents.

- The cops are p*ssed off, since they have been on heavy duty for many years - no vacations - now sent to gas and bludgeon people - among them a lot of doctors, nurses, and firefighters - protesting the budget cuts of this liberal government. And now they are sent without masks trying to control people, so they tend to get quite heavy handed on people having fun while they work. The amount of the fine has gone from 38 euros to more than 300 in mere days, and they are now thinking of jailing people fro going out. They even fine homeless people for being out of their home, or nurses going to work, even with official papers from the hospital.

- As in China or Italy or now the US, the news of the lockdown leaked, and lots of city people fled the cities towards the countryside before the lockdown, fearing being locked for months in small flats. But they are bringing the virus to small towns that have no shops nor medical facilities to handle them, angering the locals. In my town, Seignosse, the mayor tried yesterday to forbid landlords to rent logdings to avoid having too many people at this time of the year where there are not enough workers (shop clerks, cops, nurses...) to maintain a high level of population. And these city people think of it as vacations and flock the beaches, kiss each other, infuriating the authorities that are going to apply dratic measures, even if this happen only in few places, they make the news.

- locked people become bitter and jealous, and seeing surfers on the webcams maddens them with call to the cops to "lock them up!". Designating emblematic sacrificial goats can be a reflex to feel "in the right". Even if a surfer causes no risk compared to some asshole crowding markets to buy a few items 3 times a day.

In summary, I am convinced I could go SUPing without transmitting the virus. But wrt to the social/political state of the country, I must stay at home.


PS: "they're not saying you can't surf just not in multitudes" this is what was said a here week ago... an eternity. It wont last if your local news show groups of people on the beach, or surfers gathering after a session on the beach or parking lot.


I agree with Colas. Staying at home is our duty. SUP surfing can lead to injuries and in some cases the need to go to emergency. You don't want to create any possibility of additional strain on healthcare systems.

MickMc
VIC, 365 posts
24 Mar 2020 9:40AM
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40 years surfing and never had to go to emergency or required any hospitalisation. Think I'm safer in the water than on land. Keep a few metres away from others and enjoy the waves.

colas
3753 posts
24 Mar 2020 3:47PM
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micksmith said..
thats right, so boys and girls be smart be safe and aren't you glad we're in Australia not France


Especially since now some people seem to revert to the national wartime habit of denouncing your neighbors to the Kommandantur...

www.en24.news/a/2020/03/in-lille-the-17th-saturated-with-calls-for-denial.html

We even have people trying to evict from their flat exhausted nurses working day and night to save people, because they are afraid they could contaminate them.

Granted these ugly behaviors are a minority, and we are lucky to have a society that is ready to help others (e.g. understand that tax money will have to help unemployed and failing small businesses)... and no gun culture! ... The USA is going to be the stuff of nightmares... but they will make movies about it for years :-)

colas
3753 posts
24 Mar 2020 8:15PM
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MickMc said..
40 years surfing and never had to go to emergency or required any hospitalisation. Think I'm safer in the water than on land. Keep a few metres away from others and enjoy the waves.





From your own perspective, maybe. But you are consuming gas, and adding mileage to your car that will require maintenance. And the same for the rescue infrastructure with people and boats & helicopters on the ready, even if by luck you or me do not need them.

So if you look at the whole picture (country-wide), you are applying an economic pressure for gas stations and garages to stay open, as well as all the backoffice logistics and supply chain, with a reduced number of workers that are quarantined or confined, and that will in their turn consume gas to go to work, without adequate protections as they are not health workers. The few resources still available should be kept for vital things. BTW we are seeing "call to arms" now, pleas for idle people to go to the fields help replace the missing workers to harvest vegetables. (I discovered we were employing Ecuadorians here in Hossegor in the asparagus fields... This crisis shines a hard light on the globalization)

This said, if I was in a remote part of the country, at walking distrance from the spot, with no monitoring and no rescue infrastructure, I would be on the water. But not here where I must take my car, and with an active rescue infrastructure. Even if I can see on the news tons of idiots taking nearly no precautions, triggering more drastic measures even for sensible people. Near my old home some idiot organized a big BBQ and tried to argue with the incoming police... they did not waste time, he was swiftly put in jail and all the guests fined 1500 euros (2800 AUD) on the spot.

supsean
64 posts
24 Mar 2020 9:03PM
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NYC here. Plan on going surfing this week if the waves are small. Legal to do at this point. Once things lock down more, I will of course respect the law.

micksmith
VIC, 1366 posts
25 Mar 2020 8:12AM
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Select to expand quote
colas said..

MickMc said..
40 years surfing and never had to go to emergency or required any hospitalisation. Think I'm safer in the water than on land. Keep a few metres away from others and enjoy the waves.






From your own perspective, maybe. But you are consuming gas, and adding mileage to your car that will require maintenance. And the same for the rescue infrastructure with people and boats & helicopters on the ready, even if by luck you or me do not need them.

So if you look at the whole picture (country-wide), you are applying an economic pressure for gas stations and garages to stay open, as well as all the backoffice logistics and supply chain, with a reduced number of workers that are quarantined or confined, and that will in their turn consume gas to go to work, without adequate protections as they are not health workers. The few resources still available should be kept for vital things. BTW we are seeing "call to arms" now, pleas for idle people to go to the fields help replace the missing workers to harvest vegetables. (I discovered we were employing Ecuadorians here in Hossegor in the asparagus fields... This crisis shines a hard light on the globalization)

This said, if I was in a remote part of the country, at walking distrance from the spot, with no monitoring and no rescue infrastructure, I would be on the water. But not here where I must take my car, and with an active rescue infrastructure. Even if I can see on the news tons of idiots taking nearly no precautions, triggering more drastic measures even for sensible people. Near my old home some idiot organized a big BBQ and tried to argue with the incoming police... they did not waste time, he was swiftly put in jail and all the guests fined 1500 euros (2800 AUD) on the spot.


Come on colas give it a rest, you're grasping at straws now mate, I mean come on gas ( petrol ) consumption, maintenance, rescue helicopters. One minute you're saying don't do it the next it's " if I was in walking distance I'd do it "
you seem to be a phuking hypocrite from where I sit. The thing is you're French and I guess I should take into consideration you don't understand our culture nor our coastline. But more importantly what we do at the moment is within the law, as this changes so must we. There's no point you telling us what we should do from thousands of miles away. I've just been stood down after 20 years with the same company, so at the moment I'm surfing until told otherwise. Plucking virus has stuffed up what was to be a very good year

supthecreek
1926 posts
25 Mar 2020 6:06AM
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Grabbed this screen shot from a break in New England today.... being surfers, they all sit on top of each other.

I have plenty of options for empty beaches and waves, but I may do some limited flat-water paddling or perhaps ride my bike and see how this shakes out. Outdoor exercise and fresh air is important to health and well being.... but knowing others don't share the luxury of my rural life kind of makes me want to sit out for a while in solidarity.

Wishing you and your families a healthy result from this event.... be well.


cantSUPenough
VIC, 1918 posts
25 Mar 2020 10:54AM
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Select to expand quote
supsean said..
NYC here. Plan on going surfing this week if the waves are small. Legal to do at this point. Once things lock down more, I will of course respect the law.


I have to say I am surprised that NYC is not a total lockdown right now. Maybe that explains why the situation is so bad...

"New York City's Health Department said as of Tuesday morning, there were 14,776 confirmed cases and 131 deaths. Birx said 56% of all cases in the U.S., 60% of new cases and 31% of fatalities are coming out of the NYC metro area."

tarquin1
332 posts
25 Mar 2020 2:20PM
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On the news last night here in France 5 young surfers fined AND their parents for letting them out. The fine is 135 euros at the moment. More if you get fined more than once and possible jail if you get 5 in 1 month.
I think I'll keep paddling in my pool.

OkiWild
32 posts
25 Mar 2020 3:10PM
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Still business as usual in Japan. No tourists, people being more careful than usual, and all that, but people are still going to work, still doing their thing. People keep saying "It's going to explode in Japan." Maybe, but why didn't it before, as we were pretty neat the epicenter, and Chinese tourists abounded.


Countries around the world accused Japan of hiding the numbers by not testing enough. Very possible, but where are all the sick people and why aren't the hospitals overrun? We should be way ahead of Italy and everyone else in terms of infection strain on the hospitals.


A lot of people around me believe it already burned through here, but who really knows. In early February, by boss got sick with something that really knocked him down. Then I got it. Then everyone I know got it. But no one had it the same. You know how when a cold goes around, and people compare symptoms, and they're like "Yup, I got the same thing," as a cold and flu will affect people about the same from person to person? And how one person in a work place gets sick, and then maybe a few other people will get sick? Yea...not like that. EVERYONE got sick; to the last person. While my boss thought he was going to die, Fever, and all that, I got a slight sore throat for a day (or half a day), a cough during the night for two days, horrible runny nose for two days. That went away, and then moved into my chest. I have seasonal asthma, but it was nothing like that. I used a steroid inhaler for five days with no effect. One day OK, the next felt like someone was standing on my chest. Unbelievably tired. Just over a month later, and I still have some minor upper chest congestion on some days. Never had this feeling in my life... Some people had it way easier, and some much worse. Some people still have the chest congestion. No one thought about it at the time, but the infection rate and variance of symptoms sure is strange... My wife's cousin is an Internal Med MD with his own clinic. He told me he believes he has seen it quite a few times. They test for flu and it's negative. Nothing they can do but tell people to go to the main prefecture hospital, and they won't test unless you have a path to a known infection source... He believes it is widespread, only they're not testing for it... A few other doctors and nurses I know (my daughter is a nurse at Keio University Hospital in Tokyo) also have stated they think it's already widespread.But without data, all you have is and opinion. Without widespread testing, there is no data. Sort of like ****ushima. If the Japan government pulls funding from the JMA, and tells them to stop testing the ocean around the plant for radiation, anyone saying there's contamination is only voicing opinion. Right? It's all so confusing. Too much information and not enough information at the same time. The engineer in me is pulling my hair out. Everything that makes sense has contradictions, and things that make no sense are supported by data...WTF?


Anyway, I have it on good authority that Japan will start locking the doors here in about another day. Starting with 14 day quarantine for anyone entering the country. Which leads me to ask "Why now?" Is it because the reality is that none of us have had it, and it's still a threat? Then how, with so many Chinese tourists, and being so close to the epicenter, did we dodge a bullet until now? How did it knock down the rest of the world before the next closest country?


Not scared. I'm just a thinker, and a planner. A bit of a prepper after the 2011 tsunami. But not a hoarder. Being a hunter, and avid outdoors-man, it's always been my intent to feed as many people as I can in a disaster situation. Biggest puzzle ever, and the clues are all BS. This is why I need to go surf. My mind races at a million miles per hour about all sorts of things; every angle covered, and the ocean is the only thing that quiets it. I'm going surfing. If it's flat, I'm going spearfishing.


Thanks for listening. This is the first I've said to anyone about any of it.

Edit* I have no idea why it won't let you type the legit name of the place in Japan F u k u shima without censoring the word like it's the F word.

colas
3753 posts
25 Mar 2020 3:29PM
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micksmith said..
There's no point you telling us what we should do from thousands of miles away.



I am not telling you what to do. I am telling what happens in France (and others in this thread from various places) to warn you what's (most probably) coming.

And the relevant distance from you is not space, but time. For this viral situation, we are not miles aways, we are just mere days into your future. Just like Italy shows us in France exactly where we will be in one week. For instance the part about gas, mileage, etc... is not trying to convince you, it is a description of what the authorities (lawmakers, judges, cops) will think in some days at your place.

MickMc
VIC, 365 posts
25 Mar 2020 6:38PM
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Select to expand quote
colas said..

MickMc said..
40 years surfing and never had to go to emergency or required any hospitalisation. Think I'm safer in the water than on land. Keep a few metres away from others and enjoy the waves.






From your own perspective, maybe. But you are consuming gas, and adding mileage to your car that will require maintenance. And the same for the rescue infrastructure with people and boats & helicopters on the ready, even if by luck you or me do not need them.

So if you look at the whole picture (country-wide), you are applying an economic pressure for gas stations and garages to stay open, as well as all the backoffice logistics and supply chain, with a reduced number of workers that are quarantined or confined, and that will in their turn consume gas to go to work, without adequate protections as they are not health workers. The few resources still available should be kept for vital things. BTW we are seeing "call to arms" now, pleas for idle people to go to the fields help replace the missing workers to harvest vegetables. (I discovered we were employing Ecuadorians here in Hossegor in the asparagus fields... This crisis shines a hard light on the globalization)

This said, if I was in a remote part of the country, at walking distrance from the spot, with no monitoring and no rescue infrastructure, I would be on the water. But not here where I must take my car, and with an active rescue infrastructure. Even if I can see on the news tons of idiots taking nearly no precautions, triggering more drastic measures even for sensible people. Near my old home some idiot organized a big BBQ and tried to argue with the incoming police... they did not waste time, he was swiftly put in jail and all the guests fined 1500 euros (2800 AUD) on the spot.


2 minutes to my local break. Could walk but I drive ..... selling petrol, maintaining cars etc keeps people in jobs and if done properly poses no risk. Am I applying economic pressure forcing them to stay open? I can tell you they're desperate to keep their jobs. Maybe you should talk to them. Rescue infrastructure already in place, so the fact that I'm on the water changes nothing. They're not out there just in case I get hurt and the likelihood of my needing them is pretty much zero anyway. More people in jobs.
What has some idiot having a bbq got to do with whether we should go surfing or not? We go to the break, keep a few metres away from each other as we surf and if chatting afterwards. If the government decides we shouldn't go surfing I will obey the law and respect their decision. That being said my son is a psychologist working with people suffering from diverse mental issues. He continues to work despite the risk to his own health and he fears for their condition even under the current state of things. At his point in time people should still take the opportunity to go for a walk, swim, surf .... keep a safe distance from others, wash your hands and make the best of a bad situation.
Yes, this all from my own perspective and the current situation in Australia. I can't speak for France, and I wouldn't without actually being there and having a full understanding of the situation there.

Gboots
NSW, 849 posts
25 Mar 2020 7:04PM
Thumbs Up

This Chinese Virus is gonna make us all go crazy.
The reason most of us SUP / Surf is for our sanity. Personally I think this situation is being used for other agendas ....but I will leave that for the "Heavy Weather" General Discussion section of the site



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"Pandemic SUPing" started by Souwester