Torn ACL

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jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
8 Mar 2011 2:22pm
Sunday a week ago...tiny waves just goofing around...my wife and a mate on boards too....my wife and i catch a tiny wave together... my mate who doesn't sup much is in front of me paddling out ( i should have done better to avoid him ) and i gently bump into him...as i say tiny waves.

He falls... his board heads towards...yep my wife...it bumps her... she falls....she has a sore knee but keeps surfing.

Diagnosis after MRI..... 3 torn ligaments including the ACL which from what i have read may mean surgery.

anyone know much about this injury ? and have a good divorce lawyer.

guess thats a kook huh.

Chopz
Chopz
WA
147 posts
WA, 147 posts
8 Mar 2011 1:27pm
I have never tore one myself but had many mates who have. One just had surgery. He had 5 weeks off work and is walking around on his leg now. Although he can't run or put any amount of heavy pressure on it I'm amazed how fast he is recovering.

If it needs surgery, which it sounds like it does, then that's not a real drama, give it 6 months and she'll be back in the water. From my understanding of doesn't take alot to tear if you catch them right. My mother in-law tore her's playing 10 pin balling, when down to release the ball and her leg just gave away from under her and it was all over.
She on the other hand has never had surgery, she just avoids lateral movement and she's fine. I had a mate play out the rest of his football season with a torn ACL by using the same method, would only run in straight lines. I myself would opt for surgery however.
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
8 Mar 2011 4:38pm
My wife has done hers, but she has quite strong legs, and with various exercises and general caution, she is fine, but understands she won't ski again, unless she has an operation. She never has any knee buckling either. (Doc's are fairly sure it is ACL, snapped, from MRI)

But listen to docs, scans, etc, and I would be steering towards the operation... so I could surf freely, etc....

PS - the "other" ligaments aren't usually much, and generally will either repair themselves, or they put a little stitch in them whilst they do the ACL.

If the ACL is intact, the little key-hole operation for an "internal knee tidy up" (nip & tuck) is also a very good option for anyone with general knee soreness. Quick recovery usually. Short Term Pain for Long Term Gain !!

Regards "Doc" Simon (I'm not a doc!)

jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
8 Mar 2011 4:04pm
Simondo how long did your wife rest her knee for - she is keen to get back on it again, she also competes with the horses and she's got a big show in 3 weeks - I keep telling her to stop but she's starting to climb the walls ..... we've got another appointment with a Sports specialist on Thursday ..

jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
8 Mar 2011 4:19pm
jasdeking said...

Simondo how long did your wife rest her knee for - she is keen to get back on it again, she also competes with the horses and she's got a big show in 3 weeks - I keep telling her to stop but she's starting to climb the walls ..... we've got another appointment with a Sports specialist on Thursday ..

Chopz thanks for that - in less then 6 months we'll be divorced !!


I need to change my pass .. hacking my posts above
Chopz
Chopz
WA
147 posts
WA, 147 posts
8 Mar 2011 2:42pm
I thought you were just joking about the divorce part... Sorry
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
8 Mar 2011 4:49pm
Chopz said...

I thought you were just joking about the divorce part... Sorry


that parts all good
akr
akr
10 posts
akr akr
10 posts
8 Mar 2011 6:31pm
jas

I've done both ACL's the last one 3 or 4 years ago i started sup as a recovery measure(flat water only).

If she has only torn it she may be able to recover, if its ruptured it she's toast .it takes about a year to recover after a reconstruction.

When mine was gone and before the op i would just collapse in a heap when ever i turned my knee the wrong way. i had booked a snowboarding family holiday to boot, what i did was i invested in a good quality carbon fibre brace it this allowed me to snowboard with the kids and surf while waiting for the reco. i also used it extensively during the recovery and still use it today on my dirtbike.

Hope it works out
Andrew
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
8 Mar 2011 9:25pm
akr said...

jas

I've done both ACL's the last one 3 or 4 years ago i started sup as a recovery measure(flat water only).

If she has only torn it she may be able to recover, if its ruptured it she's toast .it takes about a year to recover after a reconstruction.

When mine was gone and before the op i would just collapse in a heap when ever i turned my knee the wrong way. i had booked a snowboarding family holiday to boot, what i did was i invested in a good quality carbon fibre brace it this allowed me to snowboard with the kids and surf while waiting for the reco. i also used it extensively during the recovery and still use it today on my dirtbike.

Hope it works out
Andrew


thanks guys helps heaps...she is a super active girl and is really pissed at this

Andrew mate thanks we will go get the carbon brace on your mention.... they haven't said ruptured so fingers crossed ...

she just wants it over and back surfing and horse riding....show season is now !

thanks again

Murphenzo
Murphenzo
QLD
16 posts
QLD, 16 posts
8 Mar 2011 9:44pm
I'm currently out of the surf with a Grade 2 MCL tear and have torn my PCL in the past. It sounds like she doesn't have a complete tear, so it should pull up ok in time, with the right care. For my MCL injury I'm looking at around 3 months, which pretty simply is how long it takes for the fibres of the ligament to regrow (at a minimum). ACL and PCL you're probably looking at a bit more.

Most important thing, see a good specialist and follow their advice to a tee. As with my knee, one big part is going to be that she shouldn't be loading up that ligament until it's repaired. Keep on loading it up heavily and it'll end up being "sloppy". If that means no surf, no riding horses etc for three months, then so be it. It's better that having a sh&t knee for the rest of your life! It'll drive her nuts I'm sure, but there's always something else you can do.

If you like, I'll pass you the details for my sports physio back in brisbane. I've been through many physios before and no one has even come close to how good this bloke is. Really knows this stuff inside out, very focussed on getting you up and running again quickly, and no BS. I happily make the drive back there from the coast whenever I'm in need. I've had some simply awesome recoveries from serious injuries working with this bloke.
Murphenzo
Murphenzo
QLD
16 posts
QLD, 16 posts
8 Mar 2011 9:59pm
The other thing with a good physio is that they'll set you some realistic goals.

I was in Perth when I did my MCL. Saw a physio there who made the correct diagnosis of a grade 2 MCL tear, but told me I'd be right in three weeks! Good thing I knew better, because that would have been setting me up for major disappointment.

Five weeks later, knee's still not right, so go to see my physio here. Yep grade 2 MCL tear, damage to the meniscus, PCL not quite "right" but unrelated (only explained the old injury after he'd picked that up).....and then tells me I'm looking at three months, not three weeks.

But it's all good. I know what's wrong, I know what I can't do, I know what I need to do to help it and I know how long it will take.

If she's very active, she'll be frustrated and not being able to do things she usually would, but there are always alternatives. A good sports physio will help out there too.
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
9 Mar 2011 12:10pm
Sh1t it must be in the air ,my wife is off to get an MRI.Stepped of the the sup in shallow water fell over staight away i laughed thought it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen her do.That was until she came up swearing,then i knew something was up because she doesn't swear.So now i'm the house bitch,nannie,nurse,cook, and washerwoman.hahha,
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
9 Mar 2011 12:28pm
rodriguez said...

Sh1t it must be in the air ,my wife is off to get an MRI.Stepped of the the sup in shallow water fell over staight away i laughed thought it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen her do.That was until she came up swearing,then i knew something was up because she doesn't swear.So now i'm the house bitch,nannie,nurse,cook, and washerwoman.hahha,


oh know hope its ok for her

i also am all the above plus the bloody stable hand ... have to muk stables and be nice to the horse :( more like a big dog
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
10 Mar 2011 10:31am
Thanks Jas,everythings cool sounds like youv'e got way more bitch duties than me, haha
jasdeking said...

rodriguez said...

Sh1t it must be in the air ,my wife is off to get an MRI.Stepped of the the sup in shallow water fell over staight away i laughed thought it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen her do.That was until she came up swearing,then i knew something was up because she doesn't swear.So now i'm the house bitch,nannie,nurse,cook, and washerwoman.hahha,


oh know hope its ok for her

i also am all the above plus the bloody stable hand ... have to muk stables and be nice to the horse :( more like a big dog


Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
10 Mar 2011 11:42am
jasdeking said...

Simondo how long did your wife rest her knee for - she is keen to get back on it again, she also competes with the horses and she's got a big show in 3 weeks - I keep telling her to stop but she's starting to climb the walls ..... we've got another appointment with a Sports specialist on Thursday ..




That was 10 years ago. I think after 1-2 weeks she was quickly easing back into things. But everyone is different.....

Those key-hole "clean-up" knee operations are well worth it though, if the scans & docs suggest that. I believe they blow the knee up with saline water, put a little camera in there, have a look around, drop a little stitch in here and there, or cut and loose stuff away, and visually confirm the status of the major ligaments. Pretty clever stuff. Then crutches for a few days only (usually).... Usually walking freely in about 1 week...

But listen to the doctors.
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
10 Mar 2011 7:27pm
rodriguez said...

Thanks Jas,everythings cool sounds like youv'e got way more bitch duties than me, haha


jasdeking said...

rodriguez said...

Sh1t it must be in the air ,my wife is off to get an MRI.Stepped of the the sup in shallow water fell over staight away i laughed thought it was the funniest thing i'd ever seen her do.That was until she came up swearing,then i knew something was up because she doesn't swear.So now i'm the house bitch,nannie,nurse,cook, and washerwoman.hahha,


oh know hope its ok for her

i also am all the above plus the bloody stable hand ... have to muk stables and be nice to the horse :( more like a big dog





believe it brother killing me btw who you callin bitch....bitch
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
11 Mar 2011 11:20am
HEY! I RESEMBLE THAT.
beerkeg
beerkeg
WA
13 posts
WA, 13 posts
12 Mar 2011 3:08am
i have had ACL reconstructions on both knees, one in 2001 and one in October last year. i have also had an arthroscope for a 'scrape' clean up on the meniscus in the one done 10 years ago, which gave a great result but is minor stuff (i walked out of the hospital 5 hours post surgery) compared to an ACL reco. so with the benefit of these 'experiences', i offer some advice or reassurance.

i was really reluctant to get the reco done last year because of the intense pain and long rehab i had following the 2001 rebuild. man, it was nasty and i was not looking forward to a return to that. but the MRI showed a 'disrupted' acl, medial meniscus damage etc.....generally it was a mess. but thats what happens when you fall off a roof at 3 in the morning, drinking scotch with Masai in Tanzania right?! long story.

the surgeon i saw (sports medicine specialist in Perth dealing with elite athletes..... and the plebs like myself) told me straight up that if i didn't have the acl graft, my knee would remain unstable and continually grind away on the meniscus. i would be arthritic and need artificial knees within a decade. at 42, thats not really something you want to entertain.

so i said to him, 'if i get you to do this, will my outcome be better than last time' and he quietly told me 'yes, he was sure as he had done a lot of knee operations.' so i asked how many and it turned out to be 6000 acl reconstructions and 16000 knee surgeries!!!! i guess that confidence comes with experience, but the outcome was i had a great result, pain was moderate (and those prescription opiates are really nice!!), my physical recovery was measured in weeks not months and now i am so pleased that i got it sorted early.

i was walking without crutches after a week or a stick within 10 days and back at my office job two weeks later. surgeon gave me the green light for SUP after 6 weeks, his only concerns were the 'transitions' from water to beach etc. so i was (and remain) very careful. he and my physio were familiar with the sport and both said it was great for prioperception which is about retraining nerves and muscles and they use a balance board to do the same thing, just SUP is way more fun and exercises a lot more muscle groups.

so post op, get on the stationary bike, get back paddling once you get the all clear and work on the rehab, but don't delay surgery if you want healthy joints later in life. they will just need more work later on and it just gets harder to deal with the healing.

must say that the technology in the surgical procedure has advanced but the important thing is to get a surgeon that specialises in knees, preferably those of elite athletes such as the AFL or NRL players etc, and benefit from that knowledge.

good luck and hope that all the 'broken ones' get back on the water ASAP!
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
13 Mar 2011 4:31pm
beerkeg said...

i have had ACL reconstructions on both knees, one in 2001 and one in October last year. i have also had an arthroscope for a 'scrape' clean up on the meniscus in the one done 10 years ago, which gave a great result but is minor stuff (i walked out of the hospital 5 hours post surgery) compared to an ACL reco. so with the benefit of these 'experiences', i offer some advice or reassurance.

i was really reluctant to get the reco done last year because of the intense pain and long rehab i had following the 2001 rebuild. man, it was nasty and i was not looking forward to a return to that. but the MRI showed a 'disrupted' acl, medial meniscus damage etc.....generally it was a mess. but thats what happens when you fall off a roof at 3 in the morning, drinking scotch with Masai in Tanzania right?! long story.

the surgeon i saw (sports medicine specialist in Perth dealing with elite athletes..... and the plebs like myself) told me straight up that if i didn't have the acl graft, my knee would remain unstable and continually grind away on the meniscus. i would be arthritic and need artificial knees within a decade. at 42, thats not really something you want to entertain.

so i said to him, 'if i get you to do this, will my outcome be better than last time' and he quietly told me 'yes, he was sure as he had done a lot of knee operations.' so i asked how many and it turned out to be 6000 acl reconstructions and 16000 knee surgeries!!!! i guess that confidence comes with experience, but the outcome was i had a great result, pain was moderate (and those prescription opiates are really nice!!), my physical recovery was measured in weeks not months and now i am so pleased that i got it sorted early.

i was walking without crutches after a week or a stick within 10 days and back at my office job two weeks later. surgeon gave me the green light for SUP after 6 weeks, his only concerns were the 'transitions' from water to beach etc. so i was (and remain) very careful. he and my physio were familiar with the sport and both said it was great for prioperception which is about retraining nerves and muscles and they use a balance board to do the same thing, just SUP is way more fun and exercises a lot more muscle groups.

so post op, get on the stationary bike, get back paddling once you get the all clear and work on the rehab, but don't delay surgery if you want healthy joints later in life. they will just need more work later on and it just gets harder to deal with the healing.

must say that the technology in the surgical procedure has advanced but the important thing is to get a surgeon that specialises in knees, preferably those of elite athletes such as the AFL or NRL players etc, and benefit from that knowledge.

good luck and hope that all the 'broken ones' get back on the water ASAP!


thanks for that...the recent op...do they do it under a local ? or put you under? she's seeing the specialist Thursday
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
13 Mar 2011 6:29pm
With numbers like 6,000 + 16,000 he's up there with elite board shaper counts.... I'm sure a guy like Al Merrick racked up roughly that number of boards, before switching over to shaping machines.

dudelatitude
dudelatitude
QLD
35 posts
QLD, 35 posts
13 Mar 2011 8:58pm
If you're on the Gold Coast and looking for a good physio, Tim and his team at Mermaid Beach Physio are pretty experienced in this sort of thing.

They're in the process of fixing me up after a hip arthroscopy done last Wednesday for a torn labrum.
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
17 Mar 2011 2:01pm
Got into the specialist today.

now remember the radiologist says torn acl and torn mcl

the specialist finishes scribbling notes looks up and says..." well this injury is no big deal. you have strained the mcl go see the physio wear a brace for a few weeks and you're fine."

i ask...what about the torn acl? he says the radiologist was completely wrong there is no tear!

amazing how they can get it sooo wrong.

thanks for all your advise crew...really appreciate it.

oh no more mucking out stables for me :) back to the surf!
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
17 Mar 2011 5:04pm
Hey stable bitch,thats good news,keep your fingers crossed for my babe going in march 30th. I'm hoping for some of the good news you got,hope your lady gets well soon.
jasdeking said...

Got into the specialist today.

now remember the radiologist says torn acl and torn mcl

the specialist finishes scribbling notes looks up and says..." well this injury is no big deal. you have strained the mcl go see the physio wear a brace for a few weeks and you're fine."

i ask...what about the torn acl? he says the radiologist was completely wrong there is no tear!

amazing how they can get it sooo wrong.

thanks for all your advise crew...really appreciate it.

oh no more mucking out stables for me :) back to the surf!


jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
17 Mar 2011 9:38pm
rodriguez said...

Hey stable bitch,thats good news,keep your fingers crossed for my babe going in march 30th. I'm hoping for some of the good news you got,hope your lady gets well soon.
jasdeking said...

Got into the specialist today.

now remember the radiologist says torn acl and torn mcl

the specialist finishes scribbling notes looks up and says..." well this injury is no big deal. you have strained the mcl go see the physio wear a brace for a few weeks and you're fine."

i ask...what about the torn acl? he says the radiologist was completely wrong there is no tear!

amazing how they can get it sooo wrong.

thanks for all your advise crew...really appreciate it.

oh no more mucking out stables for me :) back to the surf!





i have learnt...... get her on a good solid brace from the physio now...at least its stable and wont allow any more damage while you wait for the docs......hope all is good for everyone and knees stay off the forum forever :)
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
7 Apr 2011 8:38pm
well 6 weeks later and today shes catching piles of small waves at noosa...no pain

hope all your injuries heal as well.....thanks for all the advise
j
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
9 Apr 2011 12:44pm
super cool
jasdeking said...

well 6 weeks later and today shes catching piles of small waves at noosa...no pain

hope all your injuries heal as well.....thanks for all the advise
j


Legion
Legion
WA
2222 posts
WA, 2222 posts
9 Apr 2011 11:36am
Murphenzo said...

Most important thing, see a good specialist and follow their advice to a tee. As with my knee, one big part is going to be that she shouldn't be loading up that ligament until it's repaired. Keep on loading it up heavily and it'll end up being "sloppy". If that means no surf, no riding horses etc for three months, then so be it. It's better that having a sh&t knee for the rest of your life! It'll drive her nuts I'm sure, but there's always something else you can do.

I had tendonosis several years ago in a knee. My sports doc said the opposite - I could load it up as much as I liked - within reason. Avoid damaging, stabbing pain but general soreness was OK, even good. Also avoid NSAIDs, because with ligament and tendon damage they take a long time to heal and a major factor in healing is how much blood flows to the general area. Normally that's not much, and if you suppress swelling it's even less. So a bit of pain and swelling is good - it sends the body's attention to that zone and fresh blood helps heal. He said sometimes doctors even go to the extent of injecting fresh blood into the area of injury.

Anyway, I was happy to be able to use my injury and managed the pain for weeks/months while it healed. I much preferred it to resting with my leg up.

It was obviously not a torn/ruptured CL injury, but you may find some similarities between my tendonosis and a strained CL.
jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
9 Apr 2011 6:03pm
rodriguez said...

super cool
jasdeking said...

well 6 weeks later and today shes catching piles of small waves at noosa...no pain

hope all your injuries heal as well.....thanks for all the advise
j





how did things go for your wifes knee?
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
10 Apr 2011 11:46am
Hi Jas,thanks for asking.We saw the specialist last wednesday and were booked in for the op in 3 weeks time .The mri showed meniscal damage was extensive plus some floating bone.The specialist made it pretty clear it's going to a long and somewhat painful recovery. So it looks like i'm locked in to the bitch duties for a little longer yet.
jasdeking said...

rodriguez said...

super cool
jasdeking said...

well 6 weeks later and today shes catching piles of small waves at noosa...no pain

hope all your injuries heal as well.....thanks for all the advise
j





how did things go for your wifes knee?


jasdeking
jasdeking
QLD
1820 posts
QLD, 1820 posts
10 Apr 2011 4:53pm
rodriguez said...

Hi Jas,thanks for asking.We saw the specialist last wednesday and were booked in for the op in 3 weeks time .The mri showed meniscal damage was extensive plus some floating bone.The specialist made it pretty clear it's going to a long and somewhat painful recovery. So it looks like i'm locked in to the bitch duties for a little longer yet.
jasdeking said...

rodriguez said...

super cool
jasdeking said...

well 6 weeks later and today shes catching piles of small waves at noosa...no pain

hope all your injuries heal as well.....thanks for all the advise
j





how did things go for your wifes knee?





holy crap man that sucks she really did a number on it hey.....not the answer you wanted....hope it heals fast and strong.
Murphenzo
Murphenzo
QLD
16 posts
QLD, 16 posts
11 Apr 2011 1:38pm
Legion said...

Murphenzo said...

Most important thing, see a good specialist and follow their advice to a tee. As with my knee, one big part is going to be that she shouldn't be loading up that ligament until it's repaired. Keep on loading it up heavily and it'll end up being "sloppy". If that means no surf, no riding horses etc for three months, then so be it. It's better that having a sh&t knee for the rest of your life! It'll drive her nuts I'm sure, but there's always something else you can do.

I had tendonosis several years ago in a knee. My sports doc said the opposite - I could load it up as much as I liked - within reason. Avoid damaging, stabbing pain but general soreness was OK, even good.


Everyone has a different opinion on these things. Physio in perth told me to load it up, physio here says don't. Mind you, when he tells me don't load it up he doesn't mean stay off it completely, just don't push it to the point of pain, pretty much as you said above.
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