Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Volume advice

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Created by bulabula A week ago, 22 May 2020
bulabula
5 posts
22 May 2020 11:13AM
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Hey surfers, looking for anyone's experience with going down in volume.

I am 5'9 and currently 84kg without wetsuit, ideally will be 77-80kg once I sort the overeating habits of late. I have just gone from a 10.6 x 31 @ 150L to a new 8'4 x 28.5 x 4.2" @ 124L with a wide nose/parallel rails lots of tail and nose rocker. I had tried 8'6-8'11" x 31-32" boards in the 130-140 range and liked them, but took a risk and went narrower.

pacificpaddlecompany.com/product/blender/

Been on the new board for a couple of weeks. 27 years of short and long board surfing and last 3 years paddle boarding the big boat.

Thinking I could have gone smaller as the board is still not below the water on the deck except at the tail and whatever rail I have more weight on. Seems to constantly go rail to rail while trolling around the back, although not to bad. I have surfed it in 4 foot choppy conditions with lots of moving water and it is pretty stable except for the side to side. Catching waves is super easy and board performs well.

Keen to hear peoples experiences with how much water is over the deck and if this in my situation would make it more stable in chop. Next board down is 7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4"


hilly
WA, 5262 posts
22 May 2020 11:20AM
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7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.

bulabula
5 posts
22 May 2020 11:23AM
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Select to expand quote
hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.



I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L

supthecreek
1966 posts
22 May 2020 1:25PM
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Select to expand quote
bulabula said..

hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.




I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L


Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics







bulabula
5 posts
22 May 2020 1:48PM
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Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..

bulabula said..


hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.





I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L



Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics








Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?

Gboots
NSW, 917 posts
22 May 2020 4:41PM
Thumbs Up

Shape and where the volume is more important imho.
I am 60kg. My 83L flow has a tight sweet spot. I can paddle it easy . But once try to get on wave one small step to far forward has me falling off side at critical time . One small step to far back and I am stalling and sinking at back. I need to keep feet close and centre of gravity very low when paddling for wave . I am starting to get it right but I just don't take it out with confidence .

On 7'11 speeed (94L) it's a piece of cake. Easy to get on wave as volume up front is ample . Feels 20-30L more than flow but it's not . Its my new confidence board
Both boards 26 wide (Speed but slimmer )

benjl
384 posts
22 May 2020 4:07PM
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Hi bulabula, you must be based in nz? I know the company owner well who makes the blender.
where do you normally surf? There's some good swell on the east cost this weekend. If you're Auckland based, then Omaha, te arai, Even orewa!
the blender had quite thick and boxy rails from what I saw, which aid in stability and keeping water off the deck. I wouldn't jump down in volume too quick just for the sake of the water level on the board. give me a private message in you want and I'll chat to you more on there for some ideas and suggestions of boards over here

colas
3836 posts
22 May 2020 4:08PM
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My advice will be to find a very low volume board to borrow or rent, and to practice on it. For your 80kg, something like a 70/75 liters prone longboard.

Getting down very progressively in size is what you should do with your main SUPs. But it can make you too afraid of going down in volume. A bit like entering cold water inch by inch can become a dauting task, you need sometimes to dive in.

So, from time to time, a session on a really small board will open your mind and point out your mistakes mercilessly. For my 100k it was borrowing 85 to 100 liters boards of other SUPers on the water, or fooling around with my 84 liters prone cruiser.

Water licking your feet makes the board easier to handle in chop, it is more tippy than a higher volume board but in a more predictable way. But it comes at a price, as you must be more focused (daydreaming => fall) and it is more tiring.

Also, longer boards are easier to manage with low volume. Managing both lateral and longitudinal balance is really exhausting.

For me, there is a threshold under which the gains (lightness, looseness, safety in power) are not worth the drawbacks (reduced session time, slower paddling, missed takeoffs). It will depend on your current abilities and conditions, and you have to experience going under it to see what is the best compromise for you. For me, at 97kg, it is around 105 / 115 liters, 7' to 8', 27" to 29", depending on the shape. Ideally it would be the lowest size possible where I can still find a somewhat resting standing position, and be able to paddle hard to go fetch a shifting peak without having to stay too focused on balance.

So it means that at 84kg, you may end up with a quiver of 95 to 105 liters boards (or even down to 85 if you are young and want to compete or tacklehollow waves)

benjl
384 posts
22 May 2020 4:30PM
Thumbs Up

Hey Bulabula, I've got 3x boards from 7'2 to 8'4 and 101 to 105l. All feel completely different, if you're in Auckland give me a bell and you're welcome to come for a surf and have a try.

the Ppc pro board had much better rails and volume distribution in my opinion, the 8'3 or 8'7 would be nice for you

bulabula
5 posts
22 May 2020 6:53PM
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Cheers for the info. Pretty sorted with that

supthecreek
1966 posts
23 May 2020 3:19AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bulabula said..

supthecreek said..


bulabula said..



hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.






I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L




Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics








Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?


surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each





bulabula
5 posts
23 May 2020 4:27AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..



bulabula said..




supthecreek said..





bulabula said..






hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.









I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L







Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics










Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?





surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each






This picture should be the default when you search in google "Surf SUP Volume"

My new board is 124/84 puts it at 1.47. The board I was going to get which Benji above says would have been good in the 8'7 is 118L and would be bang on 1.4. These boards are all 28.5ish in width.

Thanks heaps for the info.

BigZ
59 posts
23 May 2020 2:03PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bulabula said..

supthecreek said..




bulabula said..





supthecreek said..






bulabula said..







hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.










I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L








Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics











Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?






surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each







This picture should be the default when you search in google "Surf SUP Volume"

My new board is 124/84 puts it at 1.47. The board I was going to get which Benji above says would have been good in the 8'7 is 118L and would be bang on 1.4. These boards are all 28.5ish in width.

Thanks heaps for the info.


1.4 may still make the board fill corky. I find 1.2 - 1.3 to be optimal for an intermediate rider.

Gboots
NSW, 917 posts
23 May 2020 5:56PM
Thumbs Up

I am 60kg dry and the Speeed 7'11 at 94L does not feel corky at all and that's over 1.5.
I think it has a lot to do with rail shape , where the volume is and wave size . I don't surf in anything bigger than say head high and usually smaller

benjl
384 posts
23 May 2020 5:09PM
Thumbs Up

Agree with gboots. My 93l 8'0 flash was anything but corky. I'm 68kg around 1.4.
my 101l blue plant ninja is about 1.44 and is literally sunken!

my 7'2 hypernut is almost the same volume (105l) but in a much more compact Form and sits higher in the water and (higher rails, same width but 1'2 shorter).
I think bulabula should try the 8'7 pro, a touch longer than his blender but way better rails and better rocker.



Kovert
66 posts
23 May 2020 6:20PM
Thumbs Up

I've just moved down to a JP pro 8'1 at 102 litres, I'm 86kg plus a 4/3 full suit at present and although more of a challenge I find it easier to get around on than the rrd 8'4 I had before it at 116 litres! That board was super tippy, thick rails made it super corky but tried the 8' version and had no issues after finding the sweet spot. I have wet feet on the JP but it lets me know what's going on. The volume distribution is spot on and that definitely seems to be key. Surfs unreal, 1.18 and keen to have a go smaller. The Flash 8'6 I had before the RRD was fantastic, super stable and the rails sat nicely just under water. Great board just felt a bit big after a while.

benjl
384 posts
23 May 2020 9:41PM
Thumbs Up

From my experience, the other thing which also greatly affects stability is bottom concaves.
vees will naturally want to rock side to side. Bigger the vee, more rock. Singles I've found are the most stable.
a tonne of variables come in to this, but same board and vee vs single / double and I'd bet the latter is more stable.
Volume distribution is also key. An even distribution makes up for probably +10-15% in my experience. cut out channels, flyer tails etc usually equal minute 5-15% stability (unless even) as the board then wants to pivot front to back and side to side

supthecreek
1966 posts
23 May 2020 11:30PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
BigZ said..

bulabula said..


supthecreek said..





bulabula said..






supthecreek said..







bulabula said..








hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.











I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L









Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics












Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?







surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each








This picture should be the default when you search in google "Surf SUP Volume"

My new board is 124/84 puts it at 1.47. The board I was going to get which Benji above says would have been good in the 8'7 is 118L and would be bang on 1.4. These boards are all 28.5ish in width.

Thanks heaps for the info.



1.4 may still make the board fill corky. I find 1.2 - 1.3 to be optimal for an intermediate rider.


It is important to remember that, optimal for a 72 year old is entirely different than optimal for a 25 year old.

That is why I always try to include my age and height, as well as weight, when discussing volume
This give the reader a reference point, so they can adjust the info up or down, depending on their own personal situation.

BigZ
59 posts
24 May 2020 12:42AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..

BigZ said..


bulabula said..



supthecreek said..






bulabula said..







supthecreek said..








bulabula said..









hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.












I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L










Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics













Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?








surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each









This picture should be the default when you search in google "Surf SUP Volume"

My new board is 124/84 puts it at 1.47. The board I was going to get which Benji above says would have been good in the 8'7 is 118L and would be bang on 1.4. These boards are all 28.5ish in width.

Thanks heaps for the info.




1.4 may still make the board fill corky. I find 1.2 - 1.3 to be optimal for an intermediate rider.



It is important to remember that, optimal for a 72 year old is entirely different than optimal for a 25 year old.

That is why I always try to include my age and height, as well as weight, when discussing volume
This give the reader a reference point, so they can adjust the info up or down, depending on their own personal situation.



Agree. There is a lot of other factors in addition to those mentioned in this thread. For example, Your height and build - where your center of gravity is - can make a difference. That is why all our opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. The only way to know what works for you is try and practice. The key is persistence.

My very biased opinion is that 1.2 - 1.3 (adjusted for board shape) is a sweet point for my old, very broken and with high Center if gravity body :)

BigZ
59 posts
24 May 2020 12:42AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..


BigZ said..



bulabula said..




supthecreek said..







bulabula said..








supthecreek said..









bulabula said..










hilly said..
7'11" x 27.8"x 110L x 4" would be easy for you floatation wise. Bit tippier and slightly harder to paddle. Below +10l of your weight starts to get tough.













I have read on here talk of more water evenly over deck can make it less tippier? Thoughts

Next one down from the 7'11 is 7'6 x 27.5 x 3.8" @97 L











Yes.... I like my boards with water over the rails.... much more comfortable for me.
I have on board that has too much volume, and it is the most difficult to stand on... even at 33" wide.
I have no problem 40 liters less and 29" wide... but the high volume board feels super corky to me.

I am 106 kg and 72 years old.... but wet rails is still more settled down for me.

Pics of 3 of my boards... all comfortably wet on the rails.
I prefer a narrower, semi surf stance, like in the pics














Great pics and info, yeah my board is almost at that, but possible a bit floaty. So maybe I will just bulk up for the board. What volume and dims are your boards?









surface area in proper places and where volume is, are all important variables
It's never as easy as volume or surface area alone.
Ample surface area with too much volume can be as challenging as well place low volume, and strategic surface area

Here are pics of some diverse sizes, shapes and volumes, with personal comfort level on each










This picture should be the default when you search in google "Surf SUP Volume"

My new board is 124/84 puts it at 1.47. The board I was going to get which Benji above says would have been good in the 8'7 is 118L and would be bang on 1.4. These boards are all 28.5ish in width.

Thanks heaps for the info.





1.4 may still make the board fill corky. I find 1.2 - 1.3 to be optimal for an intermediate rider.




It is important to remember that, optimal for a 72 year old is entirely different than optimal for a 25 year old.

That is why I always try to include my age and height, as well as weight, when discussing volume
This give the reader a reference point, so they can adjust the info up or down, depending on their own personal situation.




Agreed. There is a lot of other factors in addition to those mentioned in this thread. For example, Your height and build - where your center of gravity is - can make a difference. That is why all our opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. The only way to know what works for you is try and practice. The key is persistence.

My very biased opinion is that 1.2 - 1.3 (adjusted for a board shape) is a sweet point for my old, very broken and with a high center of gravity body :)

colas
3836 posts
24 May 2020 12:15PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..
It is important to remember that, optimal for a 72 year old is entirely different than optimal for a 25 year old.


Very true...

The frequency of practice is important too.

MattBailey
NSW, 49 posts
24 May 2020 6:28PM
Thumbs Up

Volume is not only subjective but also dependant on so many variables.I prefer really low volume, like 7L under my weight, sinking to somewhere around my knees. I've found once you get within say 10l of your weight, its all difficult (re - you really cant rest out the back) so you may as well ride that train all the way haha. Be aware, I've always found an area like 5-7L above your weight is like the worst. Its like the boards trying to float, sometimes does, sometimes sinks, it becomes somewhat unpredictable. At 7L below, you stop and you sink. the whole board goes under and its kinda stable once down there. As Colas says - grab a board and try. My only advice would be to have a 15 minute paddle on the flat water first (lagoon at the beach before surf is my go) in order to find the right spot to stand in terms of front to back. as you get smaller, you'll find the sweet spot is crazy small. All my boards literally have small deck compression in the smallest of areas, but once they're there, they really help to get it right haha.

Gboots
NSW, 917 posts
27 May 2020 8:30PM
Thumbs Up

For the low volume riders some nice board comparisons here

Slatz
NSW, 179 posts
Thursday , 28 May 2020 7:01PM
Thumbs Up

Well done for making the drop in volume. It's well worth the effort but you can't drop too much too fast or you may regret it.
Once you nail a certain volume we always want to keep dropping volume, but it gets to the point where a few litres really makes the difference between a fun surf, and just hating it, so be careful not to drop too low. After all most of us started to SUP for the enjoyment factor.

I agree with a lot of the advice here, make sure you try a heap of boards as it gets too expensive constantly buying lower volume boards.

Volume is not the be all and end all anyway, I can ride a 98L board in one design and a 125L in another and have as much fun on both. It really comes down to what style of surfing you want to do, how many waves you want to catch, and how much effort you are willing to put in to catch those waves.

Keep frothing

Gboots
NSW, 917 posts
Sunday , 31 May 2020 3:06PM
Thumbs Up

Took out 77 Flow today . Still struggling with balance but once in wave nice . Backhand so much easier


castawaycove
5 posts
Monday , 1 Jun 2020 10:23AM
Thumbs Up

Couldn't agree more with the statement, " volume is not only subjective but also dependent on so many variables." For me, I like the phrase "secondary stability". I define this as having enough of the board underwater that the rails are held in place by the water on top. I think Supthecreeks pictures illustrate this perfectly, the corky board is on top of the water, the challenging board is under water and the comfortable boards despite size or shape have water on top of the rails. As was said early, where the volume is placed is more important then volume alone.



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"Volume advice" started by bulabula