it's time something was done

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PTWoody
PTWoody
VIC
3982 posts
VIC, 3982 posts
24 Mar 2013 11:43pm
Dwindling numbers at SUP Surf events? This weekend just gone saw record numbers at Victoria's biggest annual SUP Surfing event, the SUP VIC Inverloch Weekend. Likewise, SA SUP Crew just recently ran a terrific surf event that was extremely well attended. So what are we southerners doing right? Running inclusive events that everyone wants to come to, that's what. Breaking a few rules, not running to some arbitrary national or international convention, that's what. Listening to the punters, giving them what they need, and not forcing square pegs into round holes. We may be Mexicans down south, but every now and again, we might just be able to show you Canucks a thing or two!
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
24 Mar 2013 11:26pm
looks like your race paddlers have gone surfing instead of racing

will they surf or race next year
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
24 Mar 2013 11:34pm
we need a national approach here to keep the 'overall' comp scene going.


not just' we on the other side of the black stump' run a beer drinking comp in conjunction with the sup comp over 4 weeks, the whole town enters etc etc type thinking



ps ptwoody, tell us what you guys did then
thePup
thePup
13831 posts
13831 posts
25 Mar 2013 12:08am
laceys lane said...
we need a national approach here to keep the 'overall' comp scene going.


not just' we on the other side of the black stump' run a beer drinking comp in conjunction with the sup comp over 4 weeks, the whole town enters etc etc type thinking






You heard it folks - Lacey has just put his hand up to be SUP National El Supremo ..... I vote 1 Lacey with DJ as the Treasurer & Minister of Invention and ThaDogman as minister of stoke , froff & beer Ocka is a shoe-in as minister of the arts
OG Phill is minister of procuring sponsorship coin Trade
Piece of PISH problem solved
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
25 Mar 2013 5:23am
Lacey you have no hope mate,there's been a massive recruitment drive that's paying off at my local.

goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
25 Mar 2013 9:56am
laceys lane said...
we need a national approach here to keep the 'overall' comp scene going.


not just' we on the other side of the black stump' run a beer drinking comp in conjunction with the sup comp over 4 weeks, the whole town enters etc etc type thinking



Re read my post Lacey, we have it already it's called SURFING AUSTRALIA!!

The Aussie titles were equally well run. You probably should come and have a look at one some day.
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
25 Mar 2013 10:15am
Sparx said...
As far as what we need to do to reinvigorate the comp scene. For starters we, and by we I mean the people who SUP and want to compete, need to take hold of the comp scene and run it the way it needs to be run. If we rely on people who dont have our best interest at heart, be they State or National bodies or competition directors looking to add a novelty event to their schedule, then we are screwed and probably deservedly so.
In short we need a peak body, which is pretty ironic seeing as we already have two. It sounds like NSW have got it nailed and I would suggest that is a result of the strong club scene, which brings me to my next point.
National Titles should be run by the clubs with the assistance of the peak body. They should be an annual gathering of the tribe, a seven day celebration of all that is SUP held at a venue that ticks the boxes for all of the various branches of the tree. Heavily subsidised by the industry, the municipality lucky enough to host this extavaganza and financed in part by the participants. I,m talking festival here, with daily competition, industry demo's, coaching, judging clinics and a full ticket of social functions at a variety of choice locations.
The competition should be open to all comers, no pre qualification so we get rid of the State bias bulls..t. If you want to compete, your welcome. The first three or four days are trials or grading sessions. In the more structured divisions they could be time trials, in the surfing we're talking expression session. At the end of the trials we've shaken out the divisions, Sixties through to Open, Mens, Womens, Juniors, Intermediate and Novice. If you want to come there will be a division and a title to be won appropriate to where you're at. And then for the last three or four days we run an Aussie Titles in the best freakin conditions we can find appropriate to the experience and the ability of the contestants. And all the time the top end competitors should be helping out with the coaching judging and mentoring of the "development" divisions.
At the end of seven days we have Aussie Title holders in all divisions and the legitimacy of their performances cannot be questioned because they were crowned by the Stand Up community at large.
And did I mention that the presso will be a Seventies themed disco extravaganza complete with mirror ball and a spandex clad Dogman as MC and DJ spinning the platters that matters and we will all get righteously hammered.......except of course for the kids. We'll get a none too scary clown to entertain them by tying balloons into the shapes of cute animals and feed them too much cake and red cordial.
Cheers
Sparx


Hey Sparx this is exactly how the Waveski Nationals were run and it worked very well. We would have up to 100 competitors heaps of divisions and ran them at places such as Bells, Margaret River, Burleigh and Phillip Island, often with good sponsorship. There was always a massive party at the end of it and it ran over a week - they where a hoot. Problem is you need people to run it and a National body as you mention. At the moment that is Surfing Australia and I agree that there are things that need to be addressed but they do seem to be listening as there is now an O50 division (I hope your coming again this year!!).

In NSW the club thing is pretty strong although I didn't know about the Newcastle Club folding. Our SPSC (Sydney) comps are very inclusive and friendly as they should be and a great way for crew to test the Surf comp thing without a massive cost and time commitment.

boardbumps
boardbumps
NSW
698 posts
NSW, 698 posts
25 Mar 2013 12:06pm
I have done a bit of data mining of this post and chucked in some of my own thoughts for consideration.

The COMPETITION made up from divisions and events

DIVISIONS

Pro div;

Rule 1: definition of a Pro contestant

All non sponsored Finalists from Amatuer Event comps
and all sponsored/paid riders, no age limit, no board limit.

Rule:2 Sponsorship Declaration

Failure to declare any sponsorship is an automatic expulsion from the current comp only.

Rule:3 Division Eligability Professional

If a Pro div non sponsored contestant finalist fails to reach the second round of the current chosen Pro event for the next two competitions,they are then eligable to enter the next same event as an amatuer again.

That is until they reach the same event final again. Then the non sponsored contestant must move to the Pro div for the same event at the next two competitions.

Rule:4 Event eligability
A:
If Amatuer contestant A, makes the finals of an Amatuer BOP event, then the Amatuer contestant A, has to enter into the pro div for the BOP event at the next two comps.

B:
If a Amatuer contestant A, has entered another event B, in the same competition and fails to make the finals for that event B, then they are deemed an amatuer for that event B, at the next competition even though they are deemed a Pro for another event A, in the same compettion are then deemed Pro for the same event A, at the next two competitions.

C: Age eligibity restrictions for a Pro div non sponsored contestant.
Any non sponsored Pro div contestant over 41 years old only has one competition restriction for the Pro div for the eligable event.


Am div;

Rule:1 definition of an Amatuer contestant

Any non sponsored / non paid contestant.

Rule:2 Age Divisions
A:under 16
B:under 20
C:21 to 30
D:31 to 40
E:41 to 50
F:51 to 60
G: over 60

Rule 3: Division Eligability for Amatuer
All Am div finalists must move to the Pro div for the next two comps.
All other contestants remain as amatuers for the next competition.

Rule:4 Event eligability
A:
If Amatuer contestant A, makes the finals of an Amatuer BOP event, then the Amatuer contestant A, has to enter into the pro div for the BOP event at the next two comps.

B:
If a Amatuer contestant A, has entered another event B, in the same competition and fails to make the finals for that event B, then they are deemed an amatuer for that event B, at the next competition even though they are deemed a Pro for another event A, in the same compettion are then deemed Pro for the same event A, at the next two competitions.

C: Age eligibity restrictions for a Pro div non sponsored contestant.
Any non sponsored Pro div contestant over 41 years old only has one competition restriction for the Pro div for the eligable event.


EVENTS

1: Downwinder if there is wind or marathonif there is not enough wind

2: BOP style racing

3: Wave riding expression session, all in the water at the same time.

4: Wave riding events;
A: short boards under 8'11"
B: medium boards 9'0" to 9'11"
C: long boards 10'0" to 11'0"

5: short course SPRINT Racing

This is an event I have been thinking about for some time.

The board size determines the length of the sprint course
An example of 100 meters for boards under 8'0 with repecharge heats/ round robin style event.

on the longer courses two heats can be run at the same time.
All times are recorded and retained for maybe a ranking handicap system.

this is a flatwater event, or just outside the surf zone on small days but run in a down wind configuration.

I definitely do not want to see Production board only comps. This is too restrictive of the local custom board makers and would rule them out entirely.

I think that prone/knee paddling is only to be used for returning to shore if you are caught in a BB/ close out situation.
Automatic heat disqual for prone/knee paddling out at all times unless you return to shore before catching the next wave.

All surfing event Judges have to be EXPERIENCED Paddle Surfers.

Sparx has some really good points although I'm not sure about the Spandex.

PeterP from ZA has some really good Ideas about how to apply handicaps

I think that we have to form a SUP Australia Association probably affiliated with Surf Australia for insurance.

SUP is way too different from any standard surfing format.

Just look at kite surfing or windsurfing or SLSA iron man series and the outrigger cnaoe/ski associations.

They all have their own associtions

Baby sitting a sick 13 year old kiddie at home now. Gran is on the way to relieve me.

antonfourie
antonfourie
NSW
140 posts
NSW, 140 posts
25 Mar 2013 2:09pm
I think that the worst thing would be to limit the board length to 10", if you want to get juniors into this sport then how do you expect them to surf one of those? Yes it is easy for a large middle aged man at 90+ kilos to turn a 10" or larger board. But what chance do you have if you are only 55 kilos.

It would be like a 90kg person trying to surf a 14" race board in a surf competition.

Best thing would be to have a amature / first timers category where you can start off without having to compete against the pros.

Also make sure that people are included and made to feel part of the event, there is nothing worse then turning up to a event and sitting on the sidelines not knowing anyone or what is going on.

Another thing that can be done is to have the "pros" give free lessons / assistance to beginners.

Or even have a team event with one beginner + one "pro" and which ever team gets the best combined score wins. So you could bring your partner / friend / work friend and team up with them.
HumanCartoon
HumanCartoon
VIC
2098 posts
VIC, 2098 posts
25 Mar 2013 2:12pm
laceys lane said...
looks like your race paddlers have gone surfing instead of racing


Yep.


laceys lane said...
will they surf or and race next year


Yep.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
25 Mar 2013 1:18pm
goatman said...
laceys lane said...
we need a national approach here to keep the 'overall' comp scene going.


not just' we on the other side of the black stump' run a beer drinking comp in conjunction with the sup comp over 4 weeks, the whole town enters etc etc type thinking



Re read my post Lacey, we have it already it's called SURFING AUSTRALIA!!

The Aussie titles were equally well run. You probably should come and have a look at one some day.



yes well it still seems likw the same guys every final goatie and not many coming through. doesn't seem like there is any problem from your neck of the woods

why dont you just say there's no problem then


btw i have heard of SURFING AUSTRALIA before you know, event seen it in big writing

im refering to a national grassroots direction to get some more imvolvement. now i asked to put something up by someone who rans a event, so he sees a problem. i'm just a messanger there - play the footie, not the man. i don't need the grief, hell i don't event surf comps
Casso
Casso
NSW
3785 posts
NSW, 3785 posts
25 Mar 2013 3:18pm
We had 30 competitors in the open surfing division at our last SPSC club comp. Nothing wrong SUP surfing comp numbers in Sydney.

Maybe this is because:

- We keep the entry fee down. For $50 you get to enter six comps with a minimum two heats per comp (that's less than $5 a heat), six gourmet lunches, one gourmet dinner, a quality long sleeve club t-shirt (if you got your fees in early), a club sticker and a guaranteed prize at the end of year presso which could be a new custom made board.

- We don't muck around counting how many strokes somebody takes when paddling out in the prone position. We have our judges focus on the actual surfing which is a hard enough task with four or five competitors in the water.

- We don't muck around with complicated equations based on stomach size or board volume or whether somebody got their grip at a wholesale price in order to determine final placings or which division you are allowed to enter.

- We don't do freestyle expression sessions where everybody is in the water at the same time, causing havoc, risking board and body damage and teaching bad dropping in habits.

- We hold our comps at one of the better beaches in Sydney and will utilise the best break on the beach on the day. We have most wind and swell conditions covered to almost guarantee a quality wave at every comp (haven't been let down yet).

- We throw everyone in together with the youngsters and beginners getting so much more out of a heat when they are surfing next to a seasoned pro. What better way to learn tactics and technique than being up close and personal.
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
25 Mar 2013 4:52pm
laceys lane said...


normal comp sup surfing is a bit trickier. plenty of problems, not many answers.

to me it seems like you have to use a really small board to go anywhere. now in clean surf not so hard. in normal comp conditions ie messy, i get the feeling many aren't keen to look foolish tripping around on a low volume boards in crappy conditions which is fair enough.

one answer- minimum board sizes, but the goatmans of the world want no bar of it,(goatman, just using you as a example mate) so to them that's out of the question.

has age divisions worked, is there enough age divisions, is there enough surfers to fill them. i remember vocal seabreeze crew crying out for age divisions but not many actually surfing theses comps after all that. you know who you are.



Just wondering what you are basing this on Lacey? Age divisions? There weren't any at the 2 comps you seem to be referring to. Noosa also had the magical 10 foot division as well.

Grass roots SUP surfing comps happen at the club level. This is where people can see if it's a sport they might be interested in. Comp surfing is not everyone's cup of tea and will never be near as big as the racing side of things.

Casso's got the formula pretty spot on for our local club IMO and he works very hard to keep it all going.

Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
25 Mar 2013 3:52pm
Here's what I'm seeing.
1. People want a governing body that will put SUP as priority but without moving away from Surfing Australia because of whatever reason (option, make a deal with Surfing Australia to be a sister/brother organization but the people that make the decisions on SUP are purely SUP committee members with a representative from Surfing Australia on the panel)

2. How to increase participation - the die hard SUPers want events to be purely downwind, bop & surf, which is fine if your into that or your wanting to become a pro. In all honesty though I then hear how we don't want beginners out in the waves on big boards because they are to dangerous, there only going there cause they see someone else doing it and think wow I wanna give this a go. Option, Improve SUP education to the public through schools, clubs and specialized events, including the above (bop, Dw & surf) but also include some easier progressive options that help improve people's skills through mentoring on a regular basis not once or twice a year.

Another option for increasing participation - be more open minded and listen to what people want. If the current trend is flat water make more flat water races, if it is bop which everyone seemed to be into in the last couple of years cater for those people, but make sure you cater for the masses not just a select few who want to dictate the direction of a sport to work in their favor.

Most importantly remember SUP has a long way to grow still. Surfing has alot of people out in the water but not everyone goes in a comp, I'd say about 1 in 10 or even 20 compete.

So when you see people out on the flats going for a paddle don't assume they will one day want to compete seriously, that's like saying backyard cricket will one day have to turn into a World Series
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
25 Mar 2013 4:10pm
goatman said...
laceys lane said...


normal comp sup surfing is a bit trickier. plenty of problems, not many answers.

to me it seems like you have to use a really small board to go anywhere. now in clean surf not so hard. in normal comp conditions ie messy, i get the feeling many aren't keen to look foolish tripping around on a low volume boards in crappy conditions which is fair enough.

one answer- minimum board sizes, but the goatmans of the world want no bar of it,(goatman, just using you as a example mate) so to them that's out of the question.

has age divisions worked, is there enough age divisions, is there enough surfers to fill them. i remember vocal seabreeze crew crying out for age divisions but not many actually surfing theses comps after all that. you know who you are.



Just wondering what you are basing this on Lacey? Age divisions? There weren't any at the 2 comps you seem to be referring to. Noosa also had the magical 10 foot division as well.

Grass roots SUP surfing comps happen at the club level. This is where people can see if it's a sport they might be interested in. Comp surfing is not everyone's cup of tea and will never be near as big as the racing side of things.

Casso's got the formula pretty spot on for our local club IMO and he works very hard to keep it all going.





goatie it might well be just our area. those two comp numbers are down. the coast of origin numbers are hardly filled. the best surfers are not there.

a problem i see is goldie comps in crap waves. casso's bang on right here,surf the best waves possible.

laceys is such a good sup wave and constant, but mostly the comps end up at wind blown straight hander shore breaks.

how many times are people going to keep turning up for that.


anyway, i'm done
petedorries
petedorries
QLD
700 posts
QLD, 700 posts
25 Mar 2013 4:11pm
Adapt said...
Most importantly remember SUP has a long way to grow still. Surfing has alot of people out in the water but not everyone goes in a comp, I'd say about 1 in 10 or even 20 compete.




Agree though probably like more 1 in 1000 or more
Adapt
Adapt
QLD
723 posts
QLD, 723 posts
25 Mar 2013 5:12pm
petedorries said...
Adapt said...
Most importantly remember SUP has a long way to grow still. Surfing has alot of people out in the water but not everyone goes in a comp, I'd say about 1 in 10 or even 20 compete.




Agree though probably like more 1 in 1000 or more


Yeah wasn't to sure on the numbers.
surfershaneA
surfershaneA
869 posts
869 posts
25 Mar 2013 5:45pm
Casso said...
We had 30 competitors in the open surfing division at our last SPSC club comp. Nothing wrong SUP surfing comp numbers in Sydney.

Maybe this is because:

- We keep the entry fee down. For $50 you get to enter six comps with a minimum two heats per comp (that's less than $5 a heat), six gourmet lunches, one gourmet dinner, a quality long sleeve club t-shirt (if you got your fees in early), a club sticker and a guaranteed prize at the end of year presso which could be a new custom made board......,,



It is time you Guys and Girls went one step further and hosted a major weekend long SUP event! Not a State Titles or the like, but something that will appeal to both the serious competitors and those who just want to have a fun family day out .
surf4fun
surf4fun
WA
1313 posts
WA, 1313 posts
25 Mar 2013 5:52pm
DirectX said...
Perhaps you guys should think about coming over to WA to compete at some of the events here every now and then?

SUP is growing rapidly in popularity in WA, at the first round of the Longboard and SUP state titles in Yalls SUP entrants outnumbered the longboards which is a first.

Very soon, if not next year, SUP in WA will no longer rely on being a part of the longboard comps to have a ratified state title competition. A few things will need to be ironed out first but things are on the up here thats for sure...

cheers

Rob


It is true there were more SUPs than long boarders but it wasn't all peaches and cream. Yes in the not too distant future SUP in WA will HAVE to go out on their own and as long as it is driven by the right people then it will continue to flourish. The key will be SUP events run and organised by SUPpers.

No longer can we run on the tails of longboarding/shortboarding (surf) or OC/skis (racining). These events have been great to establish the pool, but now it is time for events run by SUPpers for SUPpers. At the end of the day we are none of these craft and therefore need and want different conditions.

Some events where we tie in with other craft are successful, however we shouldn't assume that because they have gone out on a limb to include SUPs in the first place should they continue to do so. Their events were never established with SUP in mind and I can vouch from a race/event organisers point of view, why would you want to stray too far from what your original idea was. Our hearts and passion are in SUP, theres is in other areas.


Newmo
Newmo
VIC
471 posts
VIC, 471 posts
25 Mar 2013 8:53pm
You should have come to the SUP VIC weekend just gone, lots of fun.
surf4fun
surf4fun
WA
1313 posts
WA, 1313 posts
25 Mar 2013 5:58pm
Adapt said...
Here's what I'm seeing.
1. People want a governing body that will put SUP as priority but without moving away from Surfing Australia because of whatever reason (option, make a deal with Surfing Australia to be a sister/brother organization but the people that make the decisions on SUP are purely SUP committee members with a representative from Surfing Australia on the panel)




AuSup has now officially been announced as exactly that. It has a representative from all states and takes the emphasis off Surfing Australia but still has access to all their infrastructure and their full support. The committe from what I understand is an advisory panel to Surfing Australia as to how SUP events should be run and as they have their finger on the pulse from respective states has an unbiased view.
matt18
matt18
VIC
534 posts
VIC, 534 posts
25 Mar 2013 8:59pm
Waterhorse said...
You should have come to the SUP VIC weekend just gone, lots of fun.


It was a great weekend, thanks supvic
matt18
matt18
VIC
534 posts
VIC, 534 posts
25 Mar 2013 9:02pm
surf4fun said...
Adapt said...
Here's what I'm seeing.
1. People want a governing body that will put SUP as priority but without moving away from Surfing Australia because of whatever reason (option, make a deal with Surfing Australia to be a sister/brother organization but the people that make the decisions on SUP are purely SUP committee members with a representative from Surfing Australia on the panel)




AuSup has now officially been announced as exactly that. It has a representative from all states and takes the emphasis off Surfing Australia but still has access to all their infrastructure and their full support. The committe from what I understand is an advisory panel to Surfing Australia as to how SUP events should be run and as they have their finger on the pulse from respective states has an unbiased view.


Are the members of the advisory panel from each state and territory? Would be good to have equal representation to give a broad view.
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