to arrest the dwindling sup comp numbers.

a couple of thoughts from me.

noose and kingscliff should just hold ten ft plus comps with open and age divisions.

they are longboard competitions after all, why shove micro short board style sup ping in their faces.

keep pro bop, but the rest relay teams- one pro male and female,one senior and junior?, one first time racer.

now that gets everyone involved,numbers to event, people on the beach. not only that the pro's would connect with the normal people. who knows, they might even give some trade secrets away keep the costs down here.


normal comp sup surfing is a bit trickier. plenty of problems, not many answers.

to me it seems like you have to use a really small board to go anywhere. now in clean surf not so hard. in normal comp conditions ie messy, i get the feeling many aren't keen to look foolish tripping around on a low volume boards in crappy conditions which is fair enough.

one answer- minimum board sizes, but the goatmans of the world want no bar of it,(goatman, just using you as a example mate) so to them that's out of the question.

has age divisions worked, is there enough age divisions, is there enough surfers to fill them. i remember vocal seabreeze crew crying out for age divisions but not many actually surfing theses comps after all that. you know who you are.

as i said lots of questions, but________-. however the decline in sup surfing comp numbers is scary. as it stands it looks like a quick dead rather then a slow torturous one. noosa and kingscliff could very well be gone next year


i must state i was on the supsa committee for a couple years but, i personally don't have a interest in surfing sup events. still like surfing them for fun.

i was asked to put something up for discussion.

time to throw a few hats/ideas into the ring if you care

cheers

ps i'm not the most articulate person around here but you get the drift

Agreed Lacey,

But I don't think makin sup surfing a 10foot division only will help, as the pros will then dominate that too so the amateur appeal would be lost IMO.

And I like the format of bops and races at the moment however it's not catered for every ability, especially with the number of punters on race boards these days.

Love the relay idea!!!!

I see the biggest problem being the definition of pro/elite and amateur, for both race and surfing. For me that's what puts me off the surfing as even the amateur event has pros in it IMO and why waste money to get knocked out first heat. At least with the racing it lasts more than 15min but there is probly racers that feel how I do about the surf.

I'm nowhere near the pro guys but have personal goals of people to beat within the pro division, that's the only reason I like racing in the elite class, because unless they take the wrong course or die mid race, I will never "win".

Also, I think too many classes or separate races makes an event drag out creating boredom for spectators and entrants

Seems like it will take a few years to sort out properly in sup as there is too many unknowns right now.

Cheers ryan

Never been in a club or comp so not even sure if this is relevant, been tried before etc but some ideas, really just for local club comps.

Have been to a few SUPSA surf comp days with the intention to compete, but even when there has been a bit of swell and not too much wind the location has always been Tugun or North Burleigh, banks straight and closing out. I look at it and go, nup, rather go where I can get a decent wave then paddle into closeouts in a comp and try and compete against people I know are much better then me.

So some ideas:

Always have the comp at the same spot, which will allow options for the day. Like for SUPSA have the day at Laceys Lane. Relatively SUP friendly and usually a bank of some sort.

Most people have a surf SUP and either a 12 or 14 and I am sure Roar or DC have a few old ones around that can be shared on the day for those that don't. If the surf is not contestable and swell is small you turn it into a BOP day. If there is too much swell you can always go to the inside in the creek and have flat-water races. Lastly if its a howling southerly you can have a short down wind race to Burleigh with enough people around to ferry boards back etc.

The idea being by bringing two boards you are pretty much guaranteed there will be some sort of event on. So it wont be a waste of time turning up.

The next idea is to turn the judging around to rather then the day being about declaring a winner, and therefore everyone else being a loser, take a leaf out of the golf system and have a handicap system based on age, experience and in the race events on the board used. Handicapping like they do in yacht racing to bring the field onto a level playing field might work. Make the focus of the day about helping people improve and improving your handicap / club ranking and you come out of the day feeling you have won even if you haven't won a heat.

If you don't turn up and join in and have a go in all disciplines conditions, your handicap / ranking falls back so it's a good incentive no matter how crap the conditions for everyone to turn up. Like golf as you get better your handicap falls making it harder to improve your ranking which might keep it interesting for the good guys even competing against beginners. You wont have to have age or sex divisions.

To encourage new members make the focus about improving, There is a lot of talented people in surf SUP and paddle skill that do turn up. Have someone hanging around with a vid camera for analysis, the senior guys encouraged to give tips to the newbies across all the disciplines. The most fun is when you join in and by so doing so you learn something.

Have the club champion across all disciplines the thing to win. Hustle for some donation / sponsorship dollars so you can put a decent price up like a week on Namotu for the highest ranked end of season member and everyone has a chance because of the handicapping.

If you get more people enjoying competing at a local club level, it might flow through to the bigger comps.

Great positive contributions to this thread.

Its not a fair comparison when you consider populations,but if you have a look at SUP RACER and the competition schedule for May, June there is a choice of 30 races in the US we have 2 races in OZ.

Private enterprise seems to be the key in the US,with individuals and companies initiating a race with advertising ,doing all the event management duty,collecting entry fees ,allocating a bit of prize money and keeping the profit .When regularly 3 to 400 paddlers turn up to a weekend event at $50 a punter , you do the math.The Big BOPS get a few thousand entrants at $100 or more a punter.

My son did the Yolo and a few other races in Florida last year with $600 and $1000 in his back pocket .

When you try to apply a business model that would make running races with a bit of prize money ,proper water safety,insurance and paid staff profitable here you would need 200 punters at least at $100 each.from my observations over the last few years we get around 80 at the most,which doesn't even cover cost.

That didn't really offer any solutions,but early days!

appsy said...
Hahaha Lacey, I saw that over 100 people have read your post but no ones willing to write. You've done the right thing though and using this forum to get idea's, which can't help. Hopefully you get some ideas from comp organisers on this forum.

be good to hear from a rep from naish, fanatic, jp, surftec etc and why they haven't put together a comp series yet to break away from longboarding. I mean if I was a longboarding event organiser why would you even want guys on really small sup boards. I think the smallest you can ride in a longboard event is 8 ft. Just makes sense and goes with the theme of there events.

Either way, be good to see.

So where does that leave me when i have down sized from a 9'1 caddie surftech @ 136.25 litre to a deep 8'10 @ 130L. Cause i am now under does that mean i have to go smaller again.

husq2100 said...
lacey, what number of people training would you say are competing?

I think there are 3 groups. Those that just do sup for recreation and fun, very relaxed and do when it fits in. Those that do it more, some train for the race type stuff, some surf alot and push themselves but dont compete. Then the 3rd that is the same as the second but with the drive and want to compete.

so maybe that 3rd group is a pretty small percentage wise compared to all SUPrs. Maybe it is being fairly represented by numbers in comps???

I have only done one comp, that was the kirra race (amature div) which was won by a seasoned paddler and 2nd was a freak. I really enjoyed it even though it was head wind bad conditions. Only 2 things I didnt like were: not being able to use my race board and only board I had suitable (so had to borrow a board from Roar that I had never riden) and 2 was my dodgy shoulder came out and bit me in the arse.

It was the same course as the pros, just less laps (any longer and I would have thrown up)

It was fun because it was in the surf and most people fell off at one point whic was good to see.

from behind the keyboard, it does look like some of the comp entrants are trying to best postion them selves for a win (by chosing what division or comp they go in)....but then again isnt that what competeing all about??

in simplest terms, if you want more average punters to join to make numbers, make it fun fun fun.

i think you have it about right. the second group just like to keep fit. personally i do it so i'm in some kind of shape to dw.

and i'm one of those frustrating paddlers for race organisers that pick and choose their races they do go in.

as i've said a couple of times before if it resembles a dw race i'll do it and thats fun for me.

having said that if a 10 ft surf class with age divisions went ahead i would seriously consider having a crack at it for fun. winter time would be the best conditions for that kind of comp

The writing is on the wall for sure. Check the 'No Snowy' thread.
The days of tacking SUP onto longboards is over.
We have evolved into high performance surf at one end and straight out paddling at the other. SUP has very little or nothing to do with Longboarding any more.

The key has to be inclusive FUN Look at the Merimbula classic - 32 years now and still going strong! Sure they have had to reinvent themselves but the basic ingredient is always there! Inclusive FUN

The Expression Session system works and it is a key ingredient of the Merimbula classic.

We need divisions that encourages the older less surf fit amongst us to have a crack. Other than having Masters and Vet divisions, production 9'6 or 10' classes have to be a consideration if we want to grow numbers and attract sponsors.

laceys lane said...

to arrest the dwindling sup comp numbers.

one answer- minimum board sizes, but the goatmans of the world want no bar of it,(goatman, just using you as a example mate) so to them that's out of the question.

This is a good point about board size but it is relative to the size of the rider and whether they have to paddle out prone on the board. This should be recorded and the offending paddler penalized some how through their scores.

Many surfers were seen in last year's Surfing NSW state titles paddling out prone more than once. In a big surf maybe but the conditions were 2'+ and the higher end competitors should've been able to manage to paddle on their feet. The same in the Surfing Aus Nationals, top guys were prone paddling out again where it was not necessary. (Goaty wasn't one of them, always seen him on his feet!)
I read as one of a comp's rules last year that a surfer could not gain maximum points for a ride if they paddled out prone. This should be enforced and IMO would change a few outcomes and equipment choices. No more excuses about conditions, currents etc.
Sure the conditions may dictate a prone stint at times but if you have to do it regularly you should rethink the board size.

Amateur/Pro was a good idea too. Outlines from the comp organizers as to what qualifies as Pro/Am.

should all have to surf 12,6 boardsSeriousley i agree with the comments about prone paddling , if you cant stand up on the thing paddling out and stay standing throughout your heat , penalities should apply. Its stand up paddling after all

Perhaps you guys should think about coming over to WA to compete at some of the events here every now and then?

SUP is growing rapidly in popularity in WA, at the first round of the Longboard and SUP state titles in Yalls SUP entrants outnumbered the longboards which is a first.

Very soon, if not next year, SUP in WA will no longer rely on being a part of the longboard comps to have a ratified state title competition. A few things will need to be ironed out first but things are on the up here thats for sure...

cheers

Rob

Mixup said...

laceys lane said...

to arrest the dwindling sup comp numbers.

one answer- minimum board sizes, but the goatmans of the world want no bar of it,(goatman, just using you as a example mate) so to them that's out of the question.

This is a good point about board size but it is relative to the size of the rider and whether they have to paddle out prone on the board. This should be recorded and the offending paddler penalized some how through their scores.

Many surfers were seen in last year's Surfing NSW state titles paddling out prone more than once. In a big surf maybe but the conditions were 2'+ and the higher end competitors should've been able to manage to paddle on their feet. The same in the Surfing Aus Nationals, top guys were prone paddling out again where it was not necessary. (Goaty wasn't one of them, always seen him on his feet!)
I read as one of a comp's rules last year that a surfer could not gain maximum points for a ride if they paddled out prone. This should be enforced and IMO would change a few outcomes and equipment choices. No more excuses about conditions, currents etc.
Sure the conditions may dictate a prone stint at times but if you have to do it regularly you should rethink the board size.

Amateur/Pro was a good idea too. Outlines from the comp organizers as to what qualifies as Pro/Am.

I think you will find in Hawaiian and American comps you can only take 3 paddle strokes on your knees or prone and then your disqualified??

^^^^i thought it was a good point of view

Hi Lacey
Been reading all the posts recently on dwindling surf comp numbers.
i,ll put myself up for ridicule and give you my view.
I have been involved from early and loved the earlier surf comps, had great vibe and comradery for the beginning of a new sport.
It didnt take long for the ugly side of competition to rear up.
Sups have the capacity to hassle/snake by 3 fold compared to short board surfing. Who wants to spend money and time to get snaked by overzealous frothing 40/50 year olds.
I still surf in and enjoy the local surfing short board club as the vibe is far better that of the local sup club. I am not alone with this view.
I am not anti sup I love the sport and get out there every day, but I keep reading about how you want to make it fun for the beginners.
Try sharing a few more waves and cut back on the snaking.
It has now come down to the same small number of competitive people going in the comps.

is there guidelines somewhere for what 'good paddle technique' is?

completly agree in that paddle use needs to be rewarded more and i think switch paddle manouvers should score higher.

i would rather see rail turns than airs, but you cannot air without the boost from the paddle off the lip so the way i see it is an air on a sup would be more critical than a barrel, every barrel shot i see the paddle is in one hand.

As far as what we need to do to reinvigorate the comp scene. For starters we, and by we I mean the people who SUP and want to compete, need to take hold of the comp scene and run it the way it needs to be run. If we rely on people who dont have our best interest at heart, be they State or National bodies or competition directors looking to add a novelty event to their schedule, then we are screwed and probably deservedly so.
In short we need a peak body, which is pretty ironic seeing as we already have two. It sounds like NSW have got it nailed and I would suggest that is a result of the strong club scene, which brings me to my next point.
National Titles should be run by the clubs with the assistance of the peak body. They should be an annual gathering of the tribe, a seven day celebration of all that is SUP held at a venue that ticks the boxes for all of the various branches of the tree. Heavily subsidised by the industry, the municipality lucky enough to host this extavaganza and financed in part by the participants. I,m talking festival here, with daily competition, industry demo's, coaching, judging clinics and a full ticket of social functions at a variety of choice locations.
The competition should be open to all comers, no pre qualification so we get rid of the State bias bulls..t. If you want to compete, your welcome. The first three or four days are trials or grading sessions. In the more structured divisions they could be time trials, in the surfing we're talking expression session. At the end of the trials we've shaken out the divisions, Sixties through to Open, Mens, Womens, Juniors, Intermediate and Novice. If you want to come there will be a division and a title to be won appropriate to where you're at. And then for the last three or four days we run an Aussie Titles in the best freakin conditions we can find appropriate to the experience and the ability of the contestants. And all the time the top end competitors should be helping out with the coaching judging and mentoring of the "development" divisions.
At the end of seven days we have Aussie Title holders in all divisions and the legitimacy of their performances cannot be questioned because they were crowned by the Stand Up community at large.
And did I mention that the presso will be a Seventies themed disco extravaganza complete with mirror ball and a spandex clad Dogman as MC and DJ spinning the platters that matters and we will all get righteously hammered.......except of course for the kids. We'll get a none too scary clown to entertain them by tying balloons into the shapes of cute animals and feed them too much cake and red cordial.
Cheers
Sparx

We'd also like to see more competitors in our events as would anyone, but at least it is growing.

In the races I organise we use a % of winner system in our results which allows anyone anywhere in the field to see if they improved in relation to the winner of the field. As with the golf handicap system the better you get the more difficult it becomes to beat your %-time.

We've then gone one step further and worked out a spreadsheet which uses your best % of winner as your handicap. The person who improves the most in a race will then win the handicap race. This favours slower, newer paddlers who are improving more than the established paddlers.

We hope to have it fully in place for next race - did a dummy run and it worked perfectly.