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Advice for foil gybes

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Created by Al Planet 26 days ago, 2 Jan 2020
Al Planet
TAS, 1454 posts
2 Jan 2020 8:21PM
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Trying a few today in 20 knots with a 4.0 . Holding the sail till clew first seemed to work a bit but really I have no idea.
Had some crazy dismounts as I came out of a few and just fired the gear away as I abandoned ship off the back . It's the sail release that seems to cause problems but sometimes it works OK.

I have only Just started to foil so I have had my own set-up since Christmas not many skills yet.

berowne
NSW, 323 posts
2 Jan 2020 9:06PM
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One tip I got from Sam Ross (www.facebook.com/samrosswindsurf/videos/windfoil-gybe/1504085253007050/) was to gybe with the back hand in front of your face, which is opposite of a slalom gybe (front hand in front of your face). But 20kts is hard. I had a few good wipeouts trying to gybe at 20kts.

Good luck!

Oh and try to avoid turning your board into a crab...




WhiteofHeart
228 posts
2 Jan 2020 9:54PM
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If you're powered up like that, try just letting go the clew before entering the jibe entirely. If you take enough speed with you in the entry you can easily fly through a jibe with no power in the sail at all. If you want to, you can try practicing half jibes downwind while only holding on with the fronthand!

For the rest, if you want to jibe using a little more power or in a little less wind, I think the 3 main tips:

1. open the sail early! Yes, still, you dont have to let go, but you want to open up earlier than a regular carvejibe!! If you open the sail too late you'll get "backwinded", which means the wind will push in the sail from the other side.

2. keep the sail well away from you and use it as a counterbalance. If you shift your weight to the inside of the turn to carve, move your sail more to the outside of the turn! (This is the same as Berowne's "backhand in front of your face", except you want to do this with outstretched arms, almost feeling like you're toppling the sail forward.)

3. In the beginning, try to keep your weight over the board. You dont have to carve hard to make the turn. Staying on top of the board during the carve greatly increases your chances of succes, because you'll have more control over your rideheight when you stay on top of the foils' power through the turn. This last point is a key difference between a foiling jibe and a regular carvejibe. If you look at this video you'll see I'm completely on top of the board, only lightly carving and with my weight centered instead of really leaning in the turn like I would with a carvejibe. (It was over 30 knots in the video, so its a little wobbly) www.instagram.com/p/BuzGrhQIRyE/?igshid=47ylbe5383vf

I really like this video of Wyatt Miller, you can see he also stays very much over the board and only slightly carves to get the board turning. In the video he is doing duckjibes, but his worded explanation is on normal jibes, it doesnt really matter that much either way, because the footwork and carving is very similar for both, and all you have to do with the sail is let go of the backhand very first thing.

boardsurfr
WA, 972 posts
2 Jan 2020 10:09PM
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Al Planet said..
Trying a few today in 20 knots with a 4.0 . Holding the sail till clew first seemed to work a bit but really I have no idea.

That's a clew-first jibe, which is great for learning a planing jibe for windsurfing. When foiling, the more common way to learn to jibe is sail-first: let go of the sail early in your turn, keep turning, grab the sail on the new side, and only then switch your feet.


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Great video, very smooth step jibe that's almost a clew first jibe. The sail movement is very smooth and continuous, which certainly helps on the foil. I'll definitely try this way next time I'm foiling. I must admit that I have a bit of a hard time with the sail-first jibe on the foil, even though I have no problems with it on a windsurfer. But I've also had pretty limited success with step jibes on the foil so far, perhaps because of too abrupt sail movements.

Paducah
684 posts
2 Jan 2020 10:44PM
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Here's good video on the hand and footwork. It's pretty challenging to jibe in the conditions you are when starting out. You are exiting the jibe at speed and unless you are comfortable controlling the height of the board, interesting things happen. A slightly bigger sail and a 4.7 or 5.4 will be easier and less "thrilling"



Also, work up to it in stages. Enter on the wing and touch down and complete a normal jibe at first. As you progress, you'll be able to get further around. One good tip from the Wyatt Miller: a foil, unlike a slapper, doesn't lose speed as quickly in a jibe. When it's windy, you can do a long, drawn out jibe that gives you time to steady things out.

Paducah
684 posts
3 Jan 2020 10:55AM
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Paducah said..
A slightly bigger sail and a 4.7 or 5.4 will be easier and less "thrilling"


What I meant to say is a slightly bigger sail (4.7/5/4) and less wind (15-18 kts) will be easier.

Al Planet
TAS, 1454 posts
3 Jan 2020 3:26PM
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Thanks it all sounds like good advice. I think I have not been stepping forward towards the end of the gybe when I am still high . The ones when I am low at the end have been the best. I still need to break some long time windsurfing habits.

thedoor
112 posts
3 Jan 2020 3:17PM
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I have said this else where, but my best foil gybes have a few main characteristics. Oversheeting the sail as I rail the board over about 15 degrees, flip the sail as per normal gybe, then a foot switch.

Hess
9 posts
4 Jan 2020 12:19AM
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Al it looks like you are getting some good advice and sounds like you are having fun. I would have to say that there are all sorts of successful jibe styles on a foil just like on a regular windsurfer. I would also say Whiteofheart and Wyatt are nailing "advanced" jibes.

The new learning point, from windsurfing jibing, is to balance the foil while maintaining altitude. From my experience this is best done while staying near the centreline of the board and by taking small "gentle" steps. To make this easier I removed the foot straps after a few sessions and by 10-12 sessions I was comfortably flying about 50% of my jibes.

My jibes and foiling are not anything special but removing the straps helped me progress. Don't get me wrong I think straps allow you to do more advanced and aggressive maneuvers but I have not seen any advantage when learning to jibe. In fact they got in my way and forced me to take large steps away from the centreline.

Hope this helps and for those of you in OZ I hope you are safe with all the crazy fires. The Canadians are thinking of you.

WhiteofHeart
228 posts
4 Jan 2020 7:21AM
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Hess said..
Al it looks like you are getting some good advice and sounds like you are having fun. I would have to say that there are all sorts of successful jibe styles on a foil just like on a regular windsurfer. I would also say Whiteofheart and Wyatt are nailing "advanced" jibes.

The new learning point, from windsurfing jibing, is to balance the foil while maintaining altitude. From my experience this is best done while staying near the centreline of the board and by taking small "gentle" steps. To make this easier I removed the foot straps after a few sessions and by 10-12 sessions I was comfortably flying about 50% of my jibes.

My jibes and foiling are not anything special but removing the straps helped me progress. Don't get me wrong I think straps allow you to do more advanced and aggressive maneuvers but I have not seen any advantage when learning to jibe. In fact they got in my way and forced me to take large steps away from the centreline.

Hope this helps and for those of you in OZ I hope you are safe with all the crazy fires. The Canadians are thinking of you.




My own jibes are quite different from what I tell others to do, the really agressive carving style I have on my freeride kit is not that great to start out with, mostly because of point 3 mentioned above! Easiest is to make the turn as long as possible and just let go of the sail all the way in the beginning. That will give you time to focus on your balance during the turn. Having power in the sail again before the footswitch helps in stability. Standing over the centerline of the board is a way to extend the arc, although some wings need a little extra preassure to finish the carve and tend to stop halfway through the turn. Its upto you to find out what works for your setup, same as some regular slalomboards like to be carved with the foot further back, others further forward, and some dont really like to be carved at all hahaha.

Taking off the backstraps can be nice, I didnt like taking off the frontstraps in the beginning, as they give a great deal of stability especially after the footswitch. Only in summer last year I really started to feel comfortable entirely strapless. However, try both and see what you like! I know quite some people who dont use their frontstraps even after the footswitch and only put their foot back in after they're all done jibing!

boardsurfr
WA, 972 posts
5 Jan 2020 11:28PM
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I just found another "How to jibe, windfoil" video I had not seen before:


It's perhaps not the greatest instructional video, but it is interesting because he jibes a bit differently. He actually steps and then holds the sail very briefly clew-first before flipping it. If you watch closely, he adds a little extra shuffle of the back foot while sailing clew-first.
He also illustrates how to flip the sail if you're going faster than wind speed, and the sail would get backwinded when trying to push the clew through the wind. Not something that's often explained in jibe videos, and not that relevant to most beginners, but useful if you're on a fast foil (or fast windsurf gear) in lighter wind.

Compare to a slalom step jibe (like the one in the video below), all movements are slower, and there is a short delay before flipping the sail. That can be seen even for race foiling in strong wind, like at the PWA Costa Brava last year. With the higher sensitivity of the foil, adding a short moment to stabilize things makes sense.

Al Planet
TAS, 1454 posts
16 Jan 2020 12:10PM
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The advice has been useful and I have made a decent number of gybes. My worst mistakes have probably been letting the rig get to far away from me which unbalances my turn or being to heavy footed.
My best gybes have been in 10 to 15 knots with a 5m. Getting comfortable running down wind on the foil has helped.
I like the idea of gybing more aggressively and spending less time in the turn but the Starboard Supercruiser does seem pretty stable at slow speeds so it will be interesting to see how it responds to a more aggressive technique.

WhiteofHeart
228 posts
16 Jan 2020 7:47PM
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The jibe video posted by boardsurfer is a video on racing kit. Dont let the video fool you though, also on racing kit he is opening up and maybe even footchanging before he reaches the midway point in the turn!

For my more agressive jibes I hang into the turn more and even laydown the rig (wavesail) to tighten the arc! You have to dedicate though, if your arc is not constant but stretches near the end for example you're gonna fall in (to the inside of the turn). I would advise against trying to learn a more agressive technique before you have the basics down tho..

Paducah
684 posts
18 Jan 2020 12:38AM
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Found this little nugget from tintingwen on the French forums (google translated).

"If I notice that during my jibes, I make touches too often, it is because my position of straps is too at the front and that in the curve my board loses too much height. I move my straps backwards (and therefore my supports) as I go along in such a way until my jibes pass completely in the air.
I start my jibes very high on the foil, in the curve I press hard on the front which causes the board to lose height, and of course when I switch the sail I gain height. I have no problem with flight during the jibes certainly thanks to the strong pressure that I put on the front.
The other important point is the position of the sail during the jibe in the curve to also put support on the front; Too often I see apprentice foilers leaning the rigging backwards (like racing jibe in aileron) when you have to do the opposite."

powersloshin
NSW, 1073 posts
20 Jan 2020 8:47PM
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What 's the nose protection for ????

Al Planet
TAS, 1454 posts
Saturday , 25 Jan 2020 9:04PM
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I have been pushing for tighter gybes and the ones that work are great as they're quick with lots more speed at the end but it's easy to touch the side of the board in the water. Would a longer mast help or maybe just better technique?

thedoor
112 posts
Sunday , 25 Jan 2020 11:50PM
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Al Planet said..
I have been pushing for tighter gybes and the ones that work are great as they're quick with lots more speed at the end but it's easy to touch the side of the board in the water. Would a longer mast help or maybe just better technique?


Probably. I think this is also an issue with super wide boards. It was pointed out to me that the pulled in tail of the SS freestyle 115 helps avoid this.

I also find the quicker railed gybes much easier, one big advantage of being railed over is that if you step wrong and alter the lift (positive or negative) it just results in either a tighter (too much rear foot pressure) or wider turn (too much front foot pressure), and is less sensitive to a breach or a touch down that would more likely occur with a more horizontal board.

Monday , 27 Jan 2020 7:18AM
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Lots of good helpful info here on the gybes. I was foiling with my friend Simmo on the ocean yesterday. He is a beginner with 4-5 times on the windfoil and progressing very quickly. even got a few gybes now :)

We both use the Slingshot Wizard 125L + Hoverglide set up (90cm mast and 76cm Infinity front wing). Wave sails of 4.7 and 5.0.

I noticed a few things that might be helpful for him. I know there is different views on the gybes etc. Below is for beginners.

1) When entering the gybe, then keep the board relative low on the foil.
the reason is that often you can find yourself 'kicking' the board up just after the sail flick and the foil breach, as you move your body weight back to quickly and sheeting the sail in

2) Step wide with the back foot that you take out of the back strap place it across very close to the rail. As a beginner this gives you much more stability. If you are to centred toward the middle or on the middle of the board, then at especially low speed this makes the foil very nervous.

3) Open the sail much earlier in the gybe. Release the pressure in it and focus on the foil glide. Often new foilers try to use the sail to much like in a windsurfing gybe. Flick the sail earlier than a windsurf jibe.

4) Doing things ' slow' is your friend. Keep the feet's switch stance until you gain control of the board and sail, then switch the feet's in one move.

Remember this above is with wave / freeride sail and using the lifty foils.

The board style as the Wizard really makes things easier with the good volume tail, flat deck and the straps more in board position helps a lot.



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"Advice for foil gybes" started by Al Planet