I've been foiling for a year now and I definitely like it.

I'm using different Infinity foils of the Hover Glide line of Slingshot.

Right now I' considering upgrading to newer more medium / higher aspect foils.

I've been reading interesting discussions over here.

I understand there is :

1. Some compatibility within Singshot between Hover Glide and Phantasm by means of an adaptor between the Hover Glide mast and the Phantams fuselage or by a special fuselage for Hover Gilde foils to be put on a Phantasm mast.

2. Some compatibilty between the front foils of Slingshot and Sabfoil. Maybe also for the stabilizer ?

So now I have to decide which path I take and I doubt.

I also like the Gong foils there is a huge collection maybe 10 different types and sometimes 10 sizes, they only have 1 physical shop in the South of France and order everything on line, not expensive, I hear good quality, much equipment second hand, all compatible, for windfoil, extra extension piece on fuselage.

I saw there is a Spanish firm making connector pieces for Gong and other brands + I found a discussion thread about this.

Does somebody has experience of a (custom) connector piece between Gong and Slingshot Hover Glide ?

Or other brands and Slingshot.

Or inbetween other brands ?

Are these connectors strong, rigid, stiff ?

And is this the case for the Slingshot Hover Glide - Phantasm connector.

Could a Sabfoil mast be connected to a Slingshot Phantasm fuselage or the other way around, by means of a (custom) connector ?

I know a new aluminum mast is not so expensive, but a carbon mast is.

And furthermore I hate piling up material, my car is cramped, I have limited space.

I dislike incompatible gear.

For example I get masts with interchangable sections although the masts have a different length, so I can make all kind of lenght combinations. Same for the wishbone with 60 cm extensions.

I would like at least the board/mast connection and the mast/fuselage connection should be universal.

Like biking : Shimano and SRAM can be mixed.

The Slingshot mast you have now is awful. Not worth incorporating into any future system.

I've ridden Gong and Phantasm stuff for a while. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Both of their existing systems are being replaced with ones that aren't backwards compatible (for wings anyway).

The first question to ask is what kind of foiling are you looking to do. Go fast? Ride swell? Cruise around without much sail pressure?
The second question is what kind of connection do you want to the board: Tuttle or track?
The next question is how little wind you expect to foil in.
The last is what you weigh.

www.jimstringfellow.com/

He will make anything that you need....

I've heard rumors that one of the big brands will introduce a universal standard in order to invite other foil manufacturers for cross compatibility.

Gwarn said..
www.jimstringfellow.com/

He will make anything that you need....

I'll ask him.

Paducah said..

BSN101 said..
Why??
Id not want to rely on connectors holding non compatible bits together while I was out FOILING!!! But I'm not a clever peep and I don't have the time to make test fail make more and constantly miss TOW. heaps of respect for those that do tinker, I'm just not one.

One good reason is that with so few standards, over time, as manufactures stop supporting old standards, gear wears out, breaks, etc we'll all end up with orphan pieces. A great mast, decent fuse but sucky old wing. Should I chuck a nice 97cm carbon mast or try to reuse it with better, more modern wings? Do we chuck all those nice old orange slingshot wings or try use them with more modern gear?

Yes, there is a risk and it may mean that if something goes sideways, we lose a day on the water. But if money is tight, that's a fair trade off for some.

Like you suggest, it's not for everyone. It's like bikes - some just want to go to a shop and get a new one with no worries. Others are willing to get an older bike and just update the relevant parts.

I fully agree.

That was what I mean.

I care about older stuff and upgrading gradually, not only for the money, but also for convenience, making things easy, to switch and test between friends, limited space in a cramped car or VAN, walking back and forth a 500 meter low/high water line wide beach, for ecological reason to limit the amount of useless plastic, etc, and many more reasons.

But I heard and understand it's difficult or impossible to make a connector from a conical carbon mast to a conical aluminum fuselage insert.

The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.

They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.

When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.

I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.

Foiling systems are a cluster**k in my opinion. Every brand does their own thing. Very little is compatible between brands and even worse brands constantly change their own systems. This would be all fine if there was one front wing, one stab, one fuse. Instead even within brands you have an insane range of components. Most shops can only afford to hold the most commonly bought items everything else needs to be custom ordered. And every time a brand decides to change their system you are left with a pile of expensive foil gear with near not hope of getting spare parts for.

It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing and kiting.

Grantmac said..
The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.

They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.

When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.

I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.

Correct.

I see the Foil Front Wing Curve V2 L
Wingspan: 90 cmChord: 17.1cmWingspan?/area ratio: 6.8Thickness: 1.9cmVolume: 1.21LProjected area: 1199 cm?Extrados area: 1238 cm?Felt area: 1200 cm?, is a bit similar to PTM 926.

Some wingers I know use Foil Front Wing Curve V2 and Foil Front Wing Sirus V2 XL (with downwindboard). I guess better for wingfoil.

I see a lot of Gong, mainly for wingfoil, not yet windfoil.

Here under wingfoilers I guess > 50 % uses Gong gear.

Do you or somebody else use Gong for windfoil ?

From what I know and heard :

1. Gong has to its fuselage :
- a front extension of 13 cm
- rear extensions of 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
1 front and rear extension can be combined.
Gong says me this is all very solid and firm.

2. I got this answer from Gong :

Now I fully understand your system of extensions of the fuselage.
You have rallonge avant 13 cm and rallonge arri?re 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
So by this I'm quite sure using front and/or rear extension (can both be combined ?) : Yes both can be combined.a. the fuselage will be long enough for wind(surf)foiling. YEs

I think all the equipment can be bought on your website. Do you also have physical shops, retailers ? yes only one in France in Saint-Nazaire, you ll be welcome anytime !

Now my question, maybe stupid : I understand these foils are made for pumping and winging, but could I use these frontfoils for wind(surf)foiling in very little wind ? I understand turning would need a big turning circle. But could I fly at very low windspeeds ? yes it will be ok but it requires titanium fuselage and HM mast and then not possible to put the front extension.

Do all your front wings and stabilizer fit on the same fuselage ? Same screws and holes for Fluid, Wing X-Over, Wing Curve, Veloce and Curve ? I need interchangeability. yes all the same fuselage !

So for very big wide foils (I think more for wingfoil and pumping) titanium fuselage and HM mast.

Maybe Gong could be a good start for a generic platform for connectors, but I'm not sure about that. Depends on the size of the bits and pieces.

I have used gong for windfoil for last few years, first with front extension, now without it. As long as you have tracks on your board, you can find a balance point easy, with Tuttle box front extension could help, all depends on board model.
Even with extension I have used foils with a wing span up to 110 cm, going bigger is not a good idea I think.

YellowHelmet said..

Grantmac said..
The Gong aluminum masts are very well built, inexpensive and can take Tuttle or plate.

They have fuselage extensions to let their foils be used for windfoiling. They just released a new version which is mainly for very wide wings being used by heavy riders.
So the V2 gear is on sale.

When you are ready for a carbon mast theirs are available for excellent prices.

I'd consider their V2 Curve in the Large size as a good step from your existing gear along with the same size X-over tail to calm it down.

Correct.

I see the Foil Front Wing Curve V2 L
Wingspan: 90 cmChord: 17.1cmWingspan?/area ratio: 6.8Thickness: 1.9cmVolume: 1.21LProjected area: 1199 cm?Extrados area: 1238 cm?Felt area: 1200 cm?, is a bit similar to PTM 926.

Some wingers I know use Foil Front Wing Curve V2 and Foil Front Wing Sirus V2 XL (with downwindboard). I guess better for wingfoil.

I see a lot of Gong, mainly for wingfoil, not yet windfoil.

Here under wingfoilers I guess > 50 % uses Gong gear.

Do you or somebody else use Gong for windfoil ?

From what I know and heard :

1. Gong has to its fuselage :
- a front extension of 13 cm
- rear extensions of 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
1 front and rear extension can be combined.
Gong says me this is all very solid and firm.

2. I got this answer from Gong :

Now I fully understand your system of extensions of the fuselage.
You have rallonge avant 13 cm and rallonge arri?re 8,5 cm or 16 cm.
So by this I'm quite sure using front and/or rear extension (can both be combined ?) : Yes both can be combined.a. the fuselage will be long enough for wind(surf)foiling. YEs

I think all the equipment can be bought on your website. Do you also have physical shops, retailers ? yes only one in France in Saint-Nazaire, you ll be welcome anytime !

Now my question, maybe stupid : I understand these foils are made for pumping and winging, but could I use these frontfoils for wind(surf)foiling in very little wind ? I understand turning would need a big turning circle. But could I fly at very low windspeeds ? yes it will be ok but it requires titanium fuselage and HM mast and then not possible to put the front extension.

Do all your front wings and stabilizer fit on the same fuselage ? Same screws and holes for Fluid, Wing X-Over, Wing Curve, Veloce and Curve ? I need interchangeability. yes all the same fuselage !

So for very big wide foils (I think more for wingfoil and pumping) titanium fuselage and HM mast.

Maybe Gong could be a good start for a generic platform for connectors, but I'm not sure about that. Depends on the size of the bits and pieces.

Gong may be popular in Europe, but virtually unseen down here in Oz. And the problem is every brand will say their connection system is the best so unlikely to adopt another. Axis has a large following here and a few brands have started offering the Axis connection system on their wings.

I've been thinking this for a while, and hopefully it'll get sorted out as the sport evolves.

As customers, we're kind of stuck with what we've got because of how expensive it can be to switch brands.

The current foil situation feels like how it would be if sails only worked with a specific mast and/or boom combo from the same brand and model line. I get that brands optimize designs for their own gear packages, but at least with most sails I can still mix and match masts/booms from other brands if I want to. Especially good to know when you bust something traveling and just want to be on the water.

On the flip side, most brands are making solid foils now, so maybe it's just about finding what works for you within their range?

Anyway, rant over.

All I know is with all the foil changes affecting both foil lines I currently have (starboard and slingshot), I can get previous gen gear fairly cheap as everyone rushes to buy the latest and greatest.

Konrad is also offering a mast which can fit fuselages to make other brands.
None of which are windfoiling brands from what I can see though.

stehsegler said..
Foiling systems are a cluster**k in my opinion. Every brand does their own thing. Very little is compatible between brands and even worse brands constantly change their own systems. This would be all fine if there was one front wing, one stab, one fuse. Instead even within brands you have an insane range of components. Most shops can only afford to hold the most commonly bought items everything else needs to be custom ordered. And every time a brand decides to change their system you are left with a pile of expensive foil gear with near not hope of getting spare parts for.

It reminds me of the early days of windsurfing and kiting.

One of the guys here has 4 complete foils in his garage because he wanted different fuses or masts or wing sizes. All the same brand too(SB) Im on Patrik and the original is cross compatible for slalom free ride wind sup wave ding with carbon or alloy parts and DT or plate. The newer AEON is premium and not designed to cover every style. There are intelligently designed kits available that have our interests and wallets considered.

aeroegnr said..
All I know is with all the foil changes affecting both foil lines I currently have (starboard and slingshot), I can get previous gen gear fairly cheap as everyone rushes to buy the latest and greatest.

Right, that's the advantage of future incompatibility.

But then if we could have versatile connectors in all ways we could combine all benefits.

I'm sure this would make you fly faster and earlier, or at least it would feel so, as a cheaper ride would certainly feels a happier and less expensive ride.