Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Duotone f-type

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Created by smellme 8 months ago, 24 Dec 2018
smellme
22 posts
24 Dec 2018 1:39PM
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I just got the new Duotone f-type 6.8. On Duotone website, it says that it rigs best on 430 / alt 460, best RDM / alt SDM. On the sail bag, it says 430 RMD only. I tried to rig it on NS Gold 430 SDM as this is what I have, but it wasn't possible so I had to buy the NS Gold 430 RDM. With this mast it rigs very niecely but the cambers are pain in the ass. I hope I will get better at setting them, because the first time it took me a lot of time and it's very easy to snap your finger (which I did).

I will let you know more once I try in on the water.




RAL INN
VIC, 2753 posts
24 Dec 2018 4:09PM
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Is that picture of it fully set or just rigged enough for the picture?

smellme
22 posts
24 Dec 2018 2:26PM
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fully set with min tension. I could downhaul another 2 cm for overpowered conditions

Rob11
207 posts
24 Dec 2018 3:13PM
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Do they supply both cams (RDM/SDM)? Seems odd that it didn't work with your mast.
Id check with wherever you bought it from and ask them to rig it for you as well.

smellme
22 posts
24 Dec 2018 5:04PM
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There's only one set of cams. It's not only the issue of cams, you can use the sail without them. The problem is that the sdm mast doesn't bend as much as rdm (or bends differently). On sdm I get to the vds max wind dot with about 6cm less downhaul than with rdm. Even if I downhauled it all the way, which was way too much, the battens were protruding so far in front of the mast that it was impossible to rotate (this is with cams removed). It's weard because both masts are NS 430 Gold with the same IMCS, but I guess it's not the same.

Again, on the sail bag it says that the sail is RDM only so I don't think I have a reason to ask someone to make it work on SDM. I could only raise a complaint with Duotone for the mistake on their website, but what would that help? At best they would let me return the sail which I don't want to do.

WhiteofHeart
127 posts
24 Dec 2018 5:15PM
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A buddy of mine has the same sail, also on a 430 RDM (Platinum I think), he says setting the batten tension takes a little getting used to and does a lot more than on 'normal' sails. I believe he removes the tension before setting the cambers on and thightens them afterwards, which he says helps a lot in getting the cambers on.

smellme
22 posts
24 Dec 2018 5:30PM
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Select to expand quote
WhiteofHeart said..
A buddy of mine has the same sail, also on a 430 RDM (Platinum I think), he says setting the batten tension takes a little getting used to and does a lot more than on 'normal' sails. I believe he removes the tension before setting the cambers on and thightens them afterwards, which he says helps a lot in getting the cambers on.


Yes, I did it the same way.

Swindy
WA, 286 posts
24 Dec 2018 7:13PM
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To rig on an sdm you will need an sdm cam below the boom. An sdm cam is shorter than an rdm cam by about 20mm. I have a few simmer 2XC,s that are a similar sail and they come with both cams. I have used them all on both rdm and sdm and they are super easy to rig on either with the correct cams in place. A cam is much cheaper than a new mast.

WhiteofHeart
127 posts
25 Dec 2018 1:49AM
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Swindy said..
To rig on an sdm you will need an sdm cam below the boom. An sdm cam is shorter than an rdm cam by about 20mm. I have a few simmer 2XC,s that are a similar sail and they come with both cams. I have used them all on both rdm and sdm and they are super easy to rig on either with the correct cams in place. A cam is much cheaper than a new mast.


The F-type uses softcams, not the (now regular) hardcams like your 2xc.

smellme
22 posts
12 Jan 2019 11:16PM
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Finally I got to try the sail. Unfortunatelly the wind was too strong so I can't say much about it yet. It's definitely very powerful.





Robertos
8 posts
2 Jul 2019 10:31PM
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Hi Smellme, how do you like the sail after a couple of sessions?

smellme
22 posts
3 Jul 2019 4:06PM
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Robertos said..
Hi Smellme, how do you like the sail after a couple of sessions?



I absolutely hate it and I avoid it like a plague. In fact I have a hydra on order so hopefully I will be able to get rid of it soon.

Cons:
-the mini cambers have a small plastic lip that holds the batten inside. This piece broke in both cambers after couple of uses and now I have to have battens with 0 tension (wrinkled sail) otherwise they protrude too much in front of the mast and the sail doesn't rotate. Because of this lack of pressure on cambers, they constantly fall off. Its also impossible to not use cambers because battens protrude too much... This is on ns gold 430 rdm mast(recommended)
-the sail feels very heavy sailing and especially uphauling
-it feels weird- it generates a lot of power but somehow the foil doesn't want to fly. Also it seems to stabilize in a certain position where it feels reasonably light, but if I want to close/open it from there it takes a lot of force
-very fragile- it's all monofilm and battens are carbon like in e type, already broke 2

Pros
Ns Mast will work with hydra;)

Honestly, it's the worst sail I ever had. In low wind i would rather pump like mad with ns hero 5.3 which I like a lot, rather than deal with f type

nimo1972
17 posts
3 Jul 2019 5:20PM
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That is quite interesting.
I have the 5.8 F type and love it. I have had no issues with the cams on mine. Surely the shop will replace them for you?
I use it on a wizard 125 with the infinity 76 front wing. It gives me loads of low end power That I am able to transfer to forward motion and lift.
My mate who is lighter than me uses Hydras and I get foiling the same time as he does on the 7.0.(I know there are a lot of other variables the contribute to this)
I rig mine a 400 unifier mast and it offers loads of Pumpable movement.
could be a sail size thing? As my foiling experience is increasing I am finding use of smaller and smaller sails better. Other than racing I can the sail development focusing on smaller, softer lighter sails. My sail quiver is 5.8 F type , 4.9 , 4.6 and 4.0 HSM KS3.
The KS3s are absolutely magic for foiling. The only thing that might tempt me away from the 5.8 F type would be a 5.5 ish KS3.........

DWF
110 posts
3 Jul 2019 7:04PM
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Whoa, I almost ordered the 6.8 F type last week. So glad I did not.

I have the 6.0, 5.2, 4.5 Sailworks Flyers. I was looking for something bigger, but the 7.0 Flyer didn't fit my boom and mast extension.

I rig some sizes on my Ezzy masts and some of the recommended No Limitz Sumo. There is only a slight difference in using the recommended mast. So Ezzy mast works fine.

I went Flyer instead of Hydra because of price and the fact that the hydra is radical and the Flyer is like what most brands are doing.

The Flyer cams are idiot proof. The best cams I ever had in a sail. Just slide the mast in and out and ignore them. You can't ask for anything better. The sails are light too. I think because the mast sleeve is not the wet, heavy fabric Ezzy uses. The Flyer uses Dacron for the mast sleeve.

mcross19
44 posts
4 Jul 2019 5:57AM
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+1 for the Flyer sails, I have the 6 and 7m, rig them on a Duotone Platinum mast, Aero Extension and enigma boom, extremely light weight and cam rotation is effortless.

RAL INN
VIC, 2753 posts
4 Jul 2019 8:10AM
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+2 for the Flyers

RichardG
WA, 2669 posts
4 Jul 2019 2:40PM
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DWF said..
Whoa, I almost ordered the 6.8 F type last week. So glad I did not.

I have the 6.0, 5.2, 4.5 Sailworks Flyers. I was looking for something bigger, but the 7.0 Flyer didn't fit my boom and mast extension.

I rig some sizes on my Ezzy masts and some of the recommended No Limitz Sumo. There is only a slight difference in using the recommended mast. So Ezzy mast works fine.

I went Flyer instead of Hydra because of price and the fact that the hydra is radical and the Flyer is like what most brands are doing.

The Flyer cams are idiot proof. The best cams I ever had in a sail. Just slide the mast in and out and ignore them. You can't ask for anything better. The sails are light too. I think because the mast sleeve is not the wet, heavy fabric Ezzy uses. The Flyer uses Dacron for the mast sleeve.




The Ezzy Hydra which I am using to learn to foil with is a light sail, and there are no cams in it and they are not needed based on what I have seen and experienced so far. See table below for weights confirming it is not correct to say the Hydra is made out of "heavy fabric Ezzy uses" I think that is untrue and unfair. Hope this helps your understanding. Have never seen nor tried a Flyer and don't know the weights of that sail.

RAL INN
VIC, 2753 posts
4 Jul 2019 8:01PM
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As with Slappers cams or no cams will depend on what you aim to get out of foiling.
For instance if you are foiling at the low end of a wing range, cams will help push you through the inevitable holes in wind power.

DWF
110 posts
4 Jul 2019 9:21PM
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RichardG I had a whole quiver of Ezzy for many years, so I know them well. Super durable and heavier than some brands is a fact. It's what makes Ezzy legendary for durability. I don't see Dave doing anything light and fragile.

RichardG
WA, 2669 posts
5 Jul 2019 7:36AM
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DWF said..
RichardG I had a whole quiver of Ezzy for many years, so I know them well. Super durable and heavier than some brands is a fact. It's what makes Ezzy legendary for durability. I don't see Dave doing anything light and fragile.


Thanks just confirming the reference was not to the Hydra. What are the weights of the Flyer ?

mcross19
44 posts
5 Jul 2019 1:06PM
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3.4Kg for the 6m and 3.7Kg for the 7m

RichardG
WA, 2669 posts
5 Jul 2019 1:30PM
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mcross19 said..
3.4Kg for the 6m and 3.7Kg for the 7m




Thanks. In conclusion, on paper, the weight difference is negligible compared to the Hydra.

smellme
22 posts
Yesterday , 25 Aug 2019 2:19PM
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So I've been using hydra for a while now and I'm ready to compare it to the f-type. Keep in mind that it's hydra 6.0 and f-type 6.8, so it's not exactly apples to apples. Spoiler alert: I love the hydra. I used f-type with NS rdm gold 430, hydra with NS rdm gold 430 top, 400 bottom. Board SB Foil 122, foils SB Freeride and SB SuperCruizer.

- Hydra feels much lighter both uphauling and flying. Much more than just the difference in size would indicate.
- Hydra absorbs the changes in wind much better. Gusts and lulls are not transfered to the foil so they don't change your height.
- Hydra is much stronger than f-type - epoxy vs carbon battens, x-ply vs monofilm, no flimsy cams.
- Bottom end - I can take off with both sails on about 10 knots. F-type has more power but it's dificult to pump so the take off is more passive. Hydra needs more pumping but it's easier.
- On the top end, f-type becomes difficult for me at 14 knots. With hydra I didn't reach top end yet. So far the strongest wind I tried was 15 knots and it was perfect on medium setting so there is still a lot of room for more. Honestly, the adjustment range on hydra is phenomenal. If you have a power xt extension it's like going ont he water with 2 sizes of sails in one.
- Rigging hydra is faster - no messing with cams.

To summarize, hydra is a clear winner for me in every cattegory. It's a first non NS sail I ever owned (currently I have 4 heroes and 4 e-types) and it took a huge dissapointment that f-type was for me to try something new but it was totally worth it. I'm deffinitely replacing all my sails for foiling with hydras.



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"Duotone f-type" started by smellme