Grantmac said..

sailortrash said..

Grantmac said..
What tail and front wing are you using?

Most of the times im on the balz pro 969/370 stab, no shims

Your weight and board/sail?

Fanatic foilstyle 103, normally 4.0-3.3 in swell conditions, 78-80 kg

What’s your thinking?

Interesting to hear about your experience with the 707. Today I had the best windfoil session of my life. So good that I almost think I might never windsurf again.
I was on the 808 with the 370 stabilizer and had amazing rides in wind swell. I used my 3.3 sail, which really is the key to good wave windfoiling with a small sail.
Great speed, solid turning, and some epic hits off the lip (goiter, kono).

I also tried the Reverse 375 stabilizer, but I didn’t like it. It felt slow to get into flight mode, and the board didn’t fly evenly, I had to shift my weight back too much. So that stab is going up for sale :)
After that I tried the 325 stabilizer, and wow, that’s a really good combo with the 808. I’m now thinking of buying the 93 cm mast, because I believe it will give me even more of everything.

Gurra said..
Interesting to hear about your experience with the 707. Today I had the best windfoil session of my life. So good that I almost think I might never windsurf again.
I was on the 808 with the 370 stabilizer and had amazing rides in wind swell. I used my 3.3 sail, which really is the key to good wave windfoiling with a small sail.
Great speed, solid turning, and some epic hits off the lip (goiter, kono).

I also tried the Reverse 375 stabilizer, but I didn’t like it. It felt slow to get into flight mode, and the board didn’t fly evenly, I had to shift my weight back too much. So that stab is going up for sale :)
After that I tried the 325 stabilizer, and wow, that’s a really good combo with the 808. I’m now thinking of buying the 93 cm mast, because I believe it will give me even more of everything.

Gurra awesome to hear about your session. Small sails are one of the reasons I love windfoiling so much and in the waves -- well I think you know what I mean. I am usually on a 3.4 or 3.8 Cypher as I like the way the freestyle sails provide low end power and the power turns on quickly when doing my version of an off the lip.
I am excited to hear you are doing the same moves on a foil that you would do on a fin in the waves. I have no chance of doing anything advanced like a goiter/kono but have always believed advanced wave riders could do them even in light winds and smaller waves when a windsurfer would only get a couple slow turns.
I ride the 94 UHM mast and found it less draggy. I also think you will love the 707 for its higher speed and tighter turns. I find I have to ride the 707 in conditions were I can waterstart easily when on my 100L board (I am 85kg) . With the 808 if I can waterstart in the gusts then there is usually enough wind.
If you like the 325 over the 370 you might also like the idea of the shorter fuse as its kinda like going to a smaller stabilizer.

Just a heads up to all the readers- going to smaller "stuff" took some time and can impact the fun. Fun is a very personal thing and there is no right or wrong. Fun for me is flying through a carving jibe or when you come down a wave and carve a bottom turn with speed. So smaller is faster, turnier but less stable and harder to get going. So if you like to flag the sail on lake swells a small MA freestyle foil might not even let you stay on the swell. Or if you like speed, well a short fuse is not the way to go.
For example; as a 68yr old part time foiler, when I get to Maui after not foiling for 3 or 4 months I don't jump on the 707/325 right away. I start with the 835 or 808/370 and it takes me a couple of weeks to feel anywhere near how I did the last time I foiled. And when I switch to the 325 the first reach feels like I am on a bucking bronco. Or when I go to the 707 I have to keep telling myself to keep the speed up or i will stall out. Which is actually a disadvantage when you want to slow down and wait for a wave or go down in the wrong place and can't get going fast enough before a big wave takes you out.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant but when I have been asked my equipment developers in Maui for advice it always revolves around avoiding making equipment for the few who foil 200 days a year or have crazy good skills and can ride the small stuff right away. I still want a board I can up haul and set up that gets going easily. That said things like the short sail to foil geometry really adds to the freestyle/wave fun factor. I also think there are opportunities to have a fuselage length/geometry suited to freeride or wave foiling.

Hess said..

Gurra said..
Interesting to hear about your experience with the 707. Today I had the best windfoil session of my life. So good that I almost think I might never windsurf again.
I was on the 808 with the 370 stabilizer and had amazing rides in wind swell. I used my 3.3 sail, which really is the key to good wave windfoiling with a small sail.
Great speed, solid turning, and some epic hits off the lip (goiter, kono).

I also tried the Reverse 375 stabilizer, but I didn’t like it. It felt slow to get into flight mode, and the board didn’t fly evenly, I had to shift my weight back too much. So that stab is going up for sale :)
After that I tried the 325 stabilizer, and wow, that’s a really good combo with the 808. I’m now thinking of buying the 93 cm mast, because I believe it will give me even more of everything.

Gurra awesome to hear about your session. Small sails are one of the reasons I love windfoiling so much and in the waves -- well I think you know what I mean. I am usually on a 3.4 or 3.8 Cypher as I like the way the freestyle sails provide low end power and the power turns on quickly when doing my version of an off the lip.
I am excited to hear you are doing the same moves on a foil that you would do on a fin in the waves. I have no chance of doing anything advanced like a goiter/kono but have always believed advanced wave riders could do them even in light winds and smaller waves when a windsurfer would only get a couple slow turns.
I ride the 94 UHM mast and found it less draggy. I also think you will love the 707 for its higher speed and tighter turns. I find I have to ride the 707 in conditions were I can waterstart easily when on my 100L board (I am 85kg) . With the 808 if I can waterstart in the gusts then there is usually enough wind.
If you like the 325 over the 370 you might also like the idea of the shorter fuse as its kinda like going to a smaller stabilizer.

Just a heads up to all the readers- going to smaller "stuff" took some time and can impact the fun. Fun is a very personal thing and there is no right or wrong. Fun for me is flying through a carving jibe or when you come down a wave and carve a bottom turn with speed. So smaller is faster, turnier but less stable and harder to get going. So if you like to flag the sail on lake swells a small MA freestyle foil might not even let you stay on the swell. Or if you like speed, well a short fuse is not the way to go.
For example; as a 68yr old part time foiler, when I get to Maui after not foiling for 3 or 4 months I don't jump on the 707/325 right away. I start with the 835 or 808/370 and it takes me a couple of weeks to feel anywhere near how I did the last time I foiled. And when I switch to the 325 the first reach feels like I am on a bucking bronco. Or when I go to the 707 I have to keep telling myself to keep the speed up or i will stall out. Which is actually a disadvantage when you want to slow down and wait for a wave or go down in the wrong place and can't get going fast enough before a big wave takes you out.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant but when I have been asked my equipment developers in Maui for advice it always revolves around avoiding making equipment for the few who foil 200 days a year or have crazy good skills and can ride the small stuff right away. I still want a board I can up haul and set up that gets going easily. That said things like the short sail to foil geometry really adds to the freestyle/wave fun factor. I also think there are opportunities to have a fuselage length/geometry suited to freeride or wave foiling.

U have a good point. Better to go with a floaty wing then falling through as soon as u go below 10 knots of speed. That’s a bit 2020 if u ask me

John340 said..
I foiled Kanaha with Hess last November. We had some decent swell, over 2m on some days. I couldn't keep me 899 foil in the water going down the face of waves over 2m. A 808 would have been better. The 899 was great in anything under 2m

The 899 is huge and fairly old deisgn behind it. New wings with wide chords, thinner tips and leds camber is a game changer for wave riding. Less lift, 2 times the glide but u keep the stall speed.

sailortrash said..

Hess said..

Gurra said..
Interesting to hear about your experience with the 707. Today I had the best windfoil session of my life. So good that I almost think I might never windsurf again.
I was on the 808 with the 370 stabilizer and had amazing rides in wind swell. I used my 3.3 sail, which really is the key to good wave windfoiling with a small sail.
Great speed, solid turning, and some epic hits off the lip (goiter, kono).

I also tried the Reverse 375 stabilizer, but I didn’t like it. It felt slow to get into flight mode, and the board didn’t fly evenly, I had to shift my weight back too much. So that stab is going up for sale :)
After that I tried the 325 stabilizer, and wow, that’s a really good combo with the 808. I’m now thinking of buying the 93 cm mast, because I believe it will give me even more of everything.

Gurra awesome to hear about your session. Small sails are one of the reasons I love windfoiling so much and in the waves -- well I think you know what I mean. I am usually on a 3.4 or 3.8 Cypher as I like the way the freestyle sails provide low end power and the power turns on quickly when doing my version of an off the lip.
I am excited to hear you are doing the same moves on a foil that you would do on a fin in the waves. I have no chance of doing anything advanced like a goiter/kono but have always believed advanced wave riders could do them even in light winds and smaller waves when a windsurfer would only get a couple slow turns.
I ride the 94 UHM mast and found it less draggy. I also think you will love the 707 for its higher speed and tighter turns. I find I have to ride the 707 in conditions were I can waterstart easily when on my 100L board (I am 85kg) . With the 808 if I can waterstart in the gusts then there is usually enough wind.
If you like the 325 over the 370 you might also like the idea of the shorter fuse as its kinda like going to a smaller stabilizer.

Just a heads up to all the readers- going to smaller "stuff" took some time and can impact the fun. Fun is a very personal thing and there is no right or wrong. Fun for me is flying through a carving jibe or when you come down a wave and carve a bottom turn with speed. So smaller is faster, turnier but less stable and harder to get going. So if you like to flag the sail on lake swells a small MA freestyle foil might not even let you stay on the swell. Or if you like speed, well a short fuse is not the way to go.
For example; as a 68yr old part time foiler, when I get to Maui after not foiling for 3 or 4 months I don't jump on the 707/325 right away. I start with the 835 or 808/370 and it takes me a couple of weeks to feel anywhere near how I did the last time I foiled. And when I switch to the 325 the first reach feels like I am on a bucking bronco. Or when I go to the 707 I have to keep telling myself to keep the speed up or i will stall out. Which is actually a disadvantage when you want to slow down and wait for a wave or go down in the wrong place and can't get going fast enough before a big wave takes you out.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant but when I have been asked my equipment developers in Maui for advice it always revolves around avoiding making equipment for the few who foil 200 days a year or have crazy good skills and can ride the small stuff right away. I still want a board I can up haul and set up that gets going easily. That said things like the short sail to foil geometry really adds to the freestyle/wave fun factor. I also think there are opportunities to have a fuselage length/geometry suited to freeride or wave foiling.

U have a good point. Better to go with a floaty wing then falling through as soon as u go below 10 knots of speed. That’s a bit 2020 if u ask me

I probably was not clear, I really don't ride what I would call a floaty foil. I am 85kg on a light day. And the 808 is under 800 cm2 while the 707 is around 650cm2. Both are medium aspect.
I was just trying to explain that on the 707 sometimes I want to slow down to wait for the next wave or get going quickly in bigger sets and with a listed take off speed of 16-18knots the 707 can be a little trickier and even need a bit bigger sail So i then switch to the 808.

John340 said..

Hess said..

John340 said..
I foiled Kanaha with Hess last November. We had some decent swell, over 2m on some days. I couldn't keep me 899 foil in the water going down the face of waves over 2m. A 808 would have been better. The 899 was great in anything under 2m

We did have some great days John, but you are being modest. As I know you were riding bombs that there close to mast high and making it look easy in those "Gentle Giants".

You and I have the same opinion.
Of course most foils will work most of the time as folks do go out a play around in big swell on bigger foils. However even on a head high day if I want to come down a fast wave (say one with an interval in the teens) and scream as fast as you can into a powered up bottom turn I have more fun with a smaller turnier foil. But that is just me. I find on a bigger lifter foil you don't come down the wave as fast and if there is too much lift its harder to control.

The side shore wind at Kanaha is a game changer for riding waves. Instead of flagging the sail, you ride waves like a windsurfer, you keep the power in the sail and sheet in a toeside bottom turn and only sheet out about half way through the heelside cut back off the top of the wave. Linking multiple bottom turns and cutbacks on one wave feels fantastic. My Slingshot Phantasm 899 was perfect until the waves got over 2m.

That would require a small foil like the 808/707 i think, but haven’t yet come across anything similar…sounds pretty awsome!

You won't regret it, however consider spring or autumn over summer when the waves are more consistent and bigger.