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Formula sailing

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Created by petermac33 Friday, 31 Jul 2020
petermac33
WA, 6405 posts
Friday , 31 Jul 2020 9:01PM
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Today the wind on the river was averaging 10 to 12 with the biggest gust 13 knots.

Used my 85 cm wide Patrik 140L with a 50 Z fin - the same combo i always use only this time i was using a 9.4 Gun GSR sail instead of my 7.7, Venom.

Not quite formula kit but wow it does feel a lot heavier and much more cumbersome than a 7.7m

I used the same North Platinum boom and although the mast is longer its only adds 300g or so to the weight.

Its the swing weight of large rigs that just kill you not the overall weight i think.

The one big advantage i found of using a sail 1.7m bigger than my 7.7m was its planed through every single lull bar none in over two hours of constant sailing.

I do not think i was planing any quicker than on my 7.7 but thru the 6 to 8 knot lulls its so much easier to keep it going.

The big downside was upwind. Using a formula sized sail with only 85cms of width it was hard making much progress in to the wind.

A bigger fin would likely help but really i need a 200 litre or so formula board to better support this sail and then i think i would love it.

With my 7.7 my 140 litre sits much higher out the water and i can fly upwind with ease using little effort.

Using formula sized sails is not for everyone. Doing a planing gybe is simply not going to happen!

Carrying a 9.4 to and from the water is tough.

Overall it has a different feel and for those especially light days like today it does offer more time planing.

I could always get a foil if i could learn to sail the damn things.

segler
461 posts
Friday , 31 Jul 2020 10:56PM
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If you want to learn to foil with easy to use gear that will work well on your Patrik, get the Slingshot i76. Give it ten--yes, ten as in 10--sessions of flight before you decide whether to continue or not. It takes that long to develop the muscle memory of new and strange skills. If you can have an experienced foiler out there mentoring you along, so much the better.

LeeD
1538 posts
Saturday , 31 Jul 2020 11:40PM
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Bigger fin.
Nobody ever made a 200 liter Formula board.
Most were 150 to 179 liters.
70's were mostly used, as little as 63cm for lighter sailors in 20+ winds.
Foil is ok, needs deeper water.

petermac33
WA, 6405 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 12:20AM
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Thanks i will try a bigger fin and hopefully a Slingshot 76 foil.

Patrik makes a 200 litre formula noard and it feels like a yacht.


patrik-windsurf.com/formula/

Manuel7
409 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 2:07AM
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Loved cruising around all day in 8-10 knot winds. Used formula + 9.0/9.2 raf + 62 or 60(?)cm fin. Weighed around 70-75kgs. No problem with gear handling then. I had a 7.0 for 13-18, used a 50cm fin to match.

I had been sailing a 3-cam 7.5, yes it's more stable and fast however after going raf, never went back for freeriding.

What is your weight? My heaviest friend was on 10.6, didn't complain about swing weight either. Now one guy tried a 12,5 that was something!

powersloshin
NSW, 1143 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 7:39AM
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after a few sessions the big sail will feel a lot easier, should also propel you upwind better. Are you using long harness lines and keep the boom reasonably high?

mkseven
QLD, 2267 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 8:51AM
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Select to expand quote
powersloshin said..
after a few sessions the big sail will feel a lot easier, should also propel you upwind better. Are you using long harness lines and keep the boom reasonably high?


Yep.

Big sails is mostly mindset, many people hate them yet young folk sail(ed) with comparatively huge & heavy techo & rsx rigs.

There is a big difference between formula & big slalom or even the big lightwinders slw/ultrasonic etc. But your gear should be fine as the 9.4/85w/50 fin should be well balanced if not fin a bit too big. It should be better than your 7.7 because as you said you can plane through the lulls. Overdownhauling could be another cause (easy to do with big sails) or are you sailing a spot with lots of current & relatively low planing speed compared to 7.7 causing you to lose ground? Also because of extra weight you can try pulling mast foot a bit further back.

If you muscle big rigs to wrong position they will punish you with extra effort & slow speed. Give them a bit of finesse & let them do their thing/find their sheeting angles they are fun to use. Only downside I really notice is if not powered up have to be super careful in the gybe or they'll stall the rail.

9.7 is my most used sail each year & it's nice stepping down to 8.6 which then feels small, I foil also but i'd never not have big slalom rig.

Cluffy
NSW, 381 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 11:28AM
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Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
Bigger fin.
Nobody ever made a 200 liter Formula board.
Most were 150 to 179 liters.
70's were mostly used, as little as 63cm for lighter sailors in 20+ winds.
Foil is ok, needs deeper water.


patrik-windsurf.com/formula/

petermac33
WA, 6405 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 2:03PM
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I remember seeing Darryl G out on a Patrik formula board just before he moved to the dark side.

Probably needs a 70cm fin.

I fell off the first three gybes on the 9.4 but have managed to only fall off only once since.

Not sure how anyone can successfully use sails of this size on a slalom course like they seem to do in the PWA as its sheer size means planing gybes are borderline impossible.

I added extra downhaul twice as i was struggling to close the gap at the foot of the sail.

It feels better with decent downhaul though i still had it 2cm under spec but it still had a decent twist to it.

My harness lines i had to move back around 10 cms so i am going to have to put a mark on the boom where they need to be.

I position the rig as far back in the mast track as possible as i feel this helps the board to support the rig better.

Overall It just offers a different feel not really a good feel but its growing on me.

Hoping a bigger fin does the trick to improve upwind performance.

Will give it a go for a year minimum.

My 7.7 now feels more like a 7m which has been the best thing ive taken out of it so far.

And for fitness you just cannot beat using big sails.

snides8
WA, 1656 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 9:16PM
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Stop stuffing around with big heavy sails Pete
get a foil it's a no brainer.
my tracks and wind meter readings for today...
almost forgot I was using a 5.6 wave sail






petermac33
WA, 6405 posts
Saturday , 1 Aug 2020 10:10PM
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I was recovering from yesterday i saw there was a bit of wind just tired.

I struggle these days to sail back to back days.

I really enjoy days when there is just enough wind to get going as the water is so smooth.

Looks like you only use your big sails for racing.

A smaller rig is almost always nicer to use especially if you can get it going.

boardsurfr
WA, 1053 posts
Sunday , 1 Aug 2020 11:36PM
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Select to expand quote
petermac33 said..
A smaller rig is almost always nicer to use especially if you can get it going.



So true, and the main reason why I prefer foiling. I liked using an 8.5 and big boards or longboards in the past, but a small rig (5.6 most of the time) on the foil is more fun. I also like that with foiling, it's usually the big muscle groups (mostly quads to compensate for chop) that get tired. With large sails, small muscles and tendonitis were much more of an issue.



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"Formula sailing" started by petermac33