Harness Line positioning ;-(

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Creeze
Creeze
NSW
6 posts
NSW, 6 posts
18 May 2006 10:30am
Hey, I am having trouble with my harness line positioning when changing between sails (only one boom). Can anyone suggest the most accurate way to set these up, at least roughly. I have heard so far -

(1) measure the length of the boom with fists, then count a third of that from the clew and put them there
(2) hold the sail with one hand whilst on shore, when it feels balanced put them there

I find it hard to adjust them when I am out there battling , appreciate your opinions, although I realise I will have to do some adjusting on the water I just can't seem to get them sweet ....

Thanks, p.s. got a starboard Carve 122 / 2006, very sexy & lively, just wants to plane at any given chance, all I need now is some wind in Sydney !!!!!
JayBee
JayBee
NSW
714 posts
NSW, 714 posts
18 May 2006 11:03am
Take a look at..
www.guycribb.com/page0076v01.htm
specifically the article on "the truth about harness lines".

Either of the two techniques above should be ok, option 2 is way easier then option 1 tho.

getting the length right is way harder then position. I find I can set up the lines so they can be adjusted on the boom easily, but when you put weight on them they dont slip. Changing line length is another issue altogether.

JB
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
18 May 2006 11:13am
Guy Cribb has a neat way of doing this. Esentially he just puts the back buckle 1/3 of the sail chord length back from the the mast and then puts the front buckle about 150 mm in front of that. The elegance is in the way he measures it. He has a length of bungee with the third point marked on it with a hook on one end. He hooks it on the clew and stretches the other end to the front of the mast and the 1/3 point is always in the right place for any size of sail.
I myself dont do this. I feel them in on the water and put a mark on my booms later. I was surprised when I looked at my booms recently and noticed that the mark on port side was about 50 mm in front of the starboard mark. ???!!!
Waiting4wind
Waiting4wind
NSW
1871 posts
NSW, 1871 posts
18 May 2006 1:51pm
Another important point is to ensure is that the sail is tuned right. Underhauled sail, the draft will move aroundand the line position will never feel right.
eastie
eastie
WA
43 posts
WA, 43 posts
18 May 2006 12:15pm
i did the guy cribb method - works a charm. if you don't want to do the measure thingy, and your boom has distance markers printed on it you will find the sail will have boom length printed on it - use this number to go with the third idea. Not as accurate as the bungy cord, but a great improvement on stuffing around every run. Instead of the 150mm thing i use the about width of my fist.

Also i used to have harness lines too long - this mean i was not utilising the harness line properly, meaning using more arm than i should - not very good. To get the length right i would then spread the ends of the line further apart, so the harness was working across a larger distance of boom, meaning less chance of aligning nicely to that sweet spot of effort in the sail.

When i did these changes were huge - so much more comfortable - no worries hands off sailing now. Good luck!!!

ps - i find some of the larger sails need to be a little further forwards - although this is more likely how i rig the sail.
Hausey
Hausey
NSW
325 posts
NSW, 325 posts
18 May 2006 7:39pm
Guy Cribb is a git!

Try holding you rig upright as if you are sheeted in - with one hand.

This is the centre of pull. Put your harness lines on either side of this - or if it really windy a little further back.

Works well - no measuring involved.
Creeze
Creeze
NSW
6 posts
NSW, 6 posts
19 May 2006 7:39am
Hey, thanks for all your advice, I appreciate it, it's been driving me nuts, shall hit the water and give it all ago. All I need to do now is contact the Big Man in the sky and arrange (1) the wind from Perth to come to Sydney and (2) the weather from Brisbane to come to Sydney. This may be a harder problem to fix
oldtimer
oldtimer
WA
9 posts
WA, 9 posts
19 May 2006 9:29am
When positioning your lines using the "hold the sail on shore" method, bear in mind that when sailing the apparent wind/board speed will move the centre of effort point further back. I use this method, then move the point a further 5cm towards the clew.

Also, I place the harness points for sailing in to shore (wave riding) a few centremetres further back than the opposite side; again because of board speed & centre of effort change.

I hope this helps.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
19 May 2006 3:51pm
not sure I understand that, how does apparent wind and board speed affect centre of effort?
Sure in badly designed/rigged sails increase in load will shift C.E. back, is that's what is happening?
Yousurf
Yousurf
WA
165 posts
WA, 165 posts
19 May 2006 6:37pm
I usually position my harness lines on the boom, it seems to be the most affective.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
19 May 2006 6:45pm
Well that really surprises me!!!!
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
20 May 2006 7:06am
quote:
not sure I understand that, how does apparent wind and board speed affect centre of effort?


Not sure about windsurfing sails, but in a rigid airfoil increasing airspeed means that the centre of effort moves backwards. I imagine it would work the same on a windsurfing sail but they're strange beasts...

I've never really observed this myself, although I do know that in lighter winds I seem to adjust my harness lines further forwards just because it feels more comfortable. I've never been able to get them sweet just by measuring, it always takes a couple of runs before they're in the right position, at least for me.
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