Imax1 said..

MarkSSC said..

Imax1 said..
All accurate measurements , ( metric and imperial ) , are done in decimal points not fractions .

You can't convert 1/3 to metric. You get a recurring number.

But 1/3 is not a size or a measurement , it's just a description . It can't be used to do anything apart from visualise . If you needed to say add 1/3 or divide 1/3 it has to be done in decimal . 0.333 " recurring or 0.333cm recurring. The maths is the same . For example if you have a measured length of 7"5/977 th and you need to divide by 1/3 =. ?
The answer can be done , but then what do you do with it ? The fraction answer will be crazy with endless numbers . The answer can only be used in decimal format .
If you had a six pack of beer and three people , 1/3 is easy to visualise. But if you had 5 and 2/7 th of a beer and needed to divide between 3 people , not so easy . Decimal is the easy way .

The Imperial system is based around fractions, which why some people hate it or find it too difficult. I was just identifying the limits of the Metric system. For example, you cannot divide a metre into three equal parts but you can divide a yard into three equal parts. Furthermore, one-third of an inch is a precise measurement. This cannot be applied to any metric unit because of its base ten system.

I am yet to see someone sharing 5 and 2/7 of a beer!

All the old builder's rulers and some engineering rulers are in fractions. The fractions used on the metric rulers are simply another metric base ten unit ie. millimetres, centimetres and metres.

Metric is still my preferred way to measure things. Imperial still has many uses and for some reason 'sounds better'. When someone says their surfboard is 6'10" it makes sense. Similarly, an 8lb newborn baby sounds better than 3.6288kg. Just don't try to divide the baby into three equal parts by weight.

MarkSSC said..

Imax1 said..

MarkSSC said..

Imax1 said..
All accurate measurements , ( metric and imperial ) , are done in decimal points not fractions .

You can't convert 1/3 to metric. You get a recurring number.

But 1/3 is not a size or a measurement , it's just a description . It can't be used to do anything apart from visualise . If you needed to say add 1/3 or divide 1/3 it has to be done in decimal . 0.333 " recurring or 0.333cm recurring. The maths is the same . For example if you have a measured length of 7"5/977 th and you need to divide by 1/3 =. ?
The answer can be done , but then what do you do with it ? The fraction answer will be crazy with endless numbers . The answer can only be used in decimal format .
If you had a six pack of beer and three people , 1/3 is easy to visualise. But if you had 5 and 2/7 th of a beer and needed to divide between 3 people , not so easy . Decimal is the easy way .

The Imperial system is based around fractions, which why some people hate it or find it too difficult. I was just identifying the limits of the Metric system. For example, you cannot divide a metre into three equal parts but you can divide a yard into three equal parts. Furthermore, one-third of an inch is a precise measurement. This cannot be applied to any metric unit because of its base ten system.

I am yet to see someone sharing 5 and 2/7 of a beer!

All the old builder's rulers and some engineering rulers are in fractions. The fractions used on the metric rulers are simply another metric base ten unit ie. millimetres, centimetres and metres.

Metric is still my preferred way to measure things. Imperial still has many uses and for some reason 'sounds better'. When someone says their surfboard is 6'10" it makes sense. Similarly, an 8lb newborn baby sounds better than 3.6288kg. Just don't try to divide the baby into three equal parts by weight.

You can definitely use fractions in metric: 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 work. Why don't people use it? Because using decimals is easier and most of the time makes more sense. Imperial uses it because it it easier to divide the inch into 64 parts to be able to use it for precise (or small) measurements. But on a daily basis it is just a bad system, even for people who only know that system. I know machinists would laugh and show you how they can add fractions (and some construction workers can do the same) but most people can only add two fractions and that is it. At least that is based on personal experience.
what is easier, organize based on size metric sockets or imperial ones?

For me a 6'10" board doesn't tell me anything. I come from a windsurfing background so it makes more sense to me to have the measurement in cm.

marc5 said..
I was surprised when my track coach, a Swiss engineer, told me that he liked the imperial system: it relates better to human scale. A foot is actually the length of a human's foot (most humans). An inch is the first knuckle of your thumb. A yard is a human's stride. What's a meter? I'm not an architecture expert, but apparently classical Greek architecture is based on human measurements. It's interesting that in the U.S., upper level track is all metric, but high school track (which is still very popular) measures the track races metrically but the throws and jumps are usually measured in imperial. Crazy.

I'm finally getting on board with with windsurfing world's march to fully metric (except for the one foil board manufacturer mentioned above). It's been a while since I saw sail area measured in square feet. But as a farmer it's very frustrating to need imperial tools for old equipment, then switch to metric for the new equipment.

What is the worst with imperial system: The same unit could have completely different measurements , miles , gallons could vary.
Gallon could be 4.5 liters or 3.7 , miles also comes with many variations.
But here we use single meter or kg that is not heavier or longer depending on other local factors.
With some exceptions only. As I found that Chinese Ah on lithium batteries are actually 1/10 of factual battery capacity and a kilo of something may be in fact 800 to 900 grams at the best.
Things like that above doesn't exist, or even can not be technologically possible at this stage of our development,
but anyhow sold everyday on eBay and nobody cares.
BTW> My post is not intended as US imperiality critics or Chinese bashing, but rather a guidance for those countres.
Things they need to pay attention and fix, if want to join modern society.

MarkSSC said..

marc5 said..
I was surprised when my track coach, a Swiss engineer, told me that he liked the imperial system: it relates better to human scale. A foot is actually the length of a human's foot (most humans). An inch is the first knuckle of your thumb. A yard is a human's stride. What's a meter? I'm not an architecture expert, but apparently classical Greek architecture is based on human measurements. It's interesting that in the U.S., upper level track is all metric, but high school track (which is still very popular) measures the track races metrically but the throws and jumps are usually measured in imperial. Crazy.

I'm finally getting on board with with windsurfing world's march to fully metric (except for the one foil board manufacturer mentioned above). It's been a while since I saw sail area measured in square feet. But as a farmer it's very frustrating to need imperial tools for old equipment, then switch to metric for the new equipment.

Buy one of these...they do all the conversions for you. I got this in 1983 and it is still very useful.

Imperial is not frustrating if you learned it while you were young. It is a bit like speaking two languages, very useful but most people in my part of the world don't want to make the effort in becoming bilingual.

But that thing runs on halves, quarters, 1/8ths ..... sixty fourths and more!

Google will translate from and to very unusual units.

Imax1 said..
As long as people try to say fractions is better than decimal , it is my duty to show otherwise .

Hey Imax1,

I can half see your point.

If I'm out of place I'm sorry, but they say there are always 3 sides to a debate. So you can't expect to roundup a third of the argument to derive a fixed solution.

And no matter how fractional it gets and whether you sit above or below the line, on the whole I think the opinions in this thread will always tend towards unity, once the recurring issues are all added up.



Booom-tish.
I'll get my coat.

I did hope that one day whole story will be resolved.
EU accepted metrics system and all not compliment should be prohibited to enter the market/I am sick of swapping my tools to fit imperial or metric, constant confusion with bolts and nuts.

I would say, lets America stay where it is and don't sell us their rubbish unless they could conform to metrics.Obviously, there is time in the future when only one system could exist. AND that is not imperial for sure.
The fastest US could learn this the less damage is made.Lets ask any reasonable person if imperial absurdal system could be in 10 - 50 -100 years from now ? The answer is simply NoT>

For the record, the Imperial System did not originate in the USA so let's stop bagging them because it is trendy to do so. Not everything American is rubbish otherwise other nations would not have copied them. There will always be a rivalry between Europe and the USA. The good news is that my windsurfing board is measured in litres as well as having the feet/inches dimension printed on the tail of the board. Everyone should be happy!

Sea Lotus said..
USA actually uses metric system, just convert it to imperial for users ease.

Skip to around 0:32

So the pound is defined relative to the kilogram and the foot is defined relative to the metre. Seconds are seconds in both systems. It's all metric.

The argument boils down to decimal vs random multiples. The metric system is better, but there's still 60 seconds in a minute..
And the imperial system isn't all bad, there's 100 fathoms in a cable and 10 cables in a nautical mile.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units

sailquik said..
I read many years ago that some Mathematician claimed that the metric system should have been based around 8 units, or 16 units as division by half of those numbers resolves at 1.

Eg: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10.

But humans have 10 fingers and I still have to use them to count.

The hexadecimal system 0-F is less cumbersome than the binary system but essentially the same thing. Easier for programmers to communicate with computers using it.

For the wind forecasts and reports/measurements in europe we have te deal with:

- Beaufort
- Metre per second
- Kilometres per hour
- Knots per hour

Sometimes a single weather organization uses more than one unit.

I'm not a walking calculator/converter.
Counting the lines for downhaul is hard enough.

Very, very , frustrating...


The windsurf gear overhere is all in metric.
Except for the harrness lines.
They are mostly in inches...

For *uck sake why?


So none of the systems (units) is better then the other, but using one system/unit and stick to it, would make it much easier : )

Everything should be metric! Because all units are arbitrary. So they should at least be standard, only the metric units do that properly.
There should not be a special unit when you are on the water or in air that is just pure nonsense.

m/s is basically a standard speed unit for weather forecasts.
Easy to visualize the wind speed in your head. I find that part especially useful.
So for me, it sometimes makes sense to measure board speed in m/s to compare directly with current wind-speed.

Some will unsurprisingly find it more intuitive to use km/h because you see and feel it every day when driving around.
I like this option as well.

I hate knots and especially mph because it's so cumbersome to convert!
Thank god knots is quite easy to convert with a small error to [m/s] = [knots] / 2
Precisely 2knots = 1.028889m/s

We obviously need a new world order .

Keep both I say. Where would we be without a pound of flesh, a country mile or a foot in the grave...6 feet under ... whatever.
And thinking in both is good for the brain, like learning French. If we banned imperial most of the next generation would have no idea what 5/8th of something even was.

www.psychologicalscience.org/news/why-bilinguals-are-smarter.html
www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=46547

I did propose some time ago a mathematical and physics system based on Pi.Pretty much replacing 1.Will simplify some operations in physics and improve accuracy.Somehow isn't yet adopted in science, even in our everyday life.