what kind of mast should I be using with my North
sail "Ice" 5.3 ???(dosnt seem quite right at the momment.)

crash said

Thats a massive sweeping statement! There's a lad who I bought a board off who sails on the Northen Beaches, Sydney. I was talking to him about carbon booms and he said that he'd snapped lots of chinook booms but has never snapped his NP X9 (I think thats the carbon one) and has hammered it in big waves. I've only ever had NP harnesses and I've had 2 in the last 10 years and they still look 100%. Oh and did I mention how good the NP roof rack straps are?

You're talking about someone that you met who said something, I'm talking about my experiences.My last NP boom the clamp slipped round and split the shrouding, plus the clamp tensions up at the wrong point, so you go past the point of maximum pull and then leave the clamp a bit loose.On The NP boom I had before that the metal cleat pulled right out of the plastic and when I tied the line off instead the handle snapped!
The NP vario harness lines I bought the velcro didnt line up on the straps, as if it was made for a 2" diameter boom, leaving a tniny contact area and a big bit of strap projecting to get accidentally undone during waterstarting etc.
I had an NP "automatic" harness that the ratchet straps would occasionally slip all the way through the catch. Nice one that when you're maxed out in a big gust.
The last couple of NP sails I owned ripped died after a year, . Alright one was a supernova which even NP admitted was a **** sail but anyway.
A sweeping statement was my intention.

A friend of mines JP had to be cut open for some major repairs a few years ago. Instead of finding the advertised dyneema carbon stringer, we just found a strip of foam running up the whole board. This was the 2003 model. It also had staples holding it together throughout. Friday arvo job maybe?

quote:

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Originally posted by Davo87

A friend of mines JP had to be cut open for some major repairs a few years ago. Instead of finding the advertised dyneema carbon stringer, we just found a strip of foam running up the whole board. This was the 2003 model. It also had staples holding it together throughout. Friday arvo job maybe?

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Interesting..... according to some ppl here I was making stuff up. Now, seeing as though you saw that kind of construction with your own eyes, as have I, it seems some may have to withdraw their assertions that I was just badmouthing certain brands based on nothing.
I will say that after JP being notably fragile from about 2000-4 as I said they lifted the bar a lot and I think their boards are fine now. I'd be 95% happy to have one, but once bitten twice shy so I just buy what I know to be good. The extra 5% helps me sleep at night.

BTW staples are normal, they use a few to keep the divinycell layer bent around the rails before it goes into the vac bag. Nothing sus there.

Not worked. I just like cutting other peoples' boards in half is all


Talking about workingin the industry I'm still waiting for soem of our board constructors to weigh in for the debate (after I hijacked the thread and made it about durability but anyway....)

BJ, Stone and Decrep etc where r u

It would be nice wouldn't it!!!! There has bene criticism that some mags favour some brands but I dunno.

Witht he constrution thing, yes I have always wanted to expose them. I'd like to do a website where we cut say 20 or so waveboards in half and photo them. Would keep the manufacturers honest and maybe they'd lift their game a bit.
I find it very disconcerting that when you buy a styro/PVC foam sandwich board that has "carbon" or Kevlar" or "dyneema glass hybrid" cloth in the advertising literature you have NO idea how much of each. If people knew and could see a *real* pic a helluva lot of them would pay $100 more for a quality board.
However cost is a bit of a hindrance to cutting open 20 waveboards every year just to take a pic and put it on the web................

Oh yeah... ppl said they couldn't find the pics I loaded before as they are months ago so I have done them again.

They are two boards that were advertised as having the same construction.

(1) the single sandwich: look at far left. The black is not carbon, it is shadow as the deck laminate has lifted. Look at the top and you'll see the carbon.

(2) the double sandwich: those layers of divinycell are each the same thickness as the first board (thus there is twice as much hi density foam). Look at the amount of deck laminate... it is 3x thicker. Fair enough there is no carbon, but carbon is brittle and should be used as extra reinforcement. Ie you can't replace 3 good layers of glass with 1x thin glass and 1x thin carbon: it will be stiff but will snap easier.

Also hard to see, but the styro core of the double sandwich is much more dense (harder). The individual balls in the single sandwich board are larger and softer.

Those two boards are same year, same shop, same price. NEITHER is a JP by the way.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark _australia


Talking about workingin the industry I'm still waiting for soem of our board constructors to weigh in for the debate (after I hijacked the thread and made it about durability but anyway....)

BJ, Stone and Decrep etc where r u

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Thought you were doing a good job by yourself Mark. And I haven't pulled apart as many boards as you, besides which, my memory is that bad, I can't remember what were bad and what were good! Well not reliably enough to post assertions on a public thread.
The old freeride board of hardy's we modified into a speed board had good construction, plenty of carbon and extra reinforcing around the feet and mast areas. You'll have to ask hardie who made it.

I agree with you about bigger companies trying to lock others out by using their own standards, so once you buy one thing of theirs you have to continue.
That's why I'm using a Linux operating system and not microsoft!

Freedom is the ability to choose a set up that suits you, not what is dictated by some marketing gurus, only interested in your money!

Would it not be more constructive learning how to make good boards and do experiments in construction methods to try and get a better product ?
If you have all this knowledge about construction ,why not use it to create something good. Rather than use it to bag out companies who are there to make money.
It probably takes a little more effort than chopping up an old board, but you would learn alot more and you might even end up with some decent boards.

quote:

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Originally posted by hoop

Would it not be more constructive learning how to make good boards and do experiments in construction methods to try and get a better product ?

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If you're talking to me, that's exactly what I'm trying to do, but I'm retired and have plenty of time to play around.

Building a board from scratch is a lot of hard messy work, and if you count you're hours, isn't very rewarding financially, you have to love doing it.
And there's not a lot of chance making a construction breakthrough, that's being done where the big money is, aerospace industry and luxury/racing marine.

I expect one of those reasons is why Mark isn't making his own.

GOOD LUCK !

Yeah makes sense sorry went off on another tangent. Maybe that model and year they thought it would be strong enough.

Synthetic spider-web will be replacing steel cable long before it is replacing fibreglass.

All companies make their products to a specification, the actual breakages due to faults by cobra would be relatively small and most faults would be quick to show. Starboard and exocet could have an advantage with quality by basing themselves near cobra, but I doubt either company has reps on the production line overseeing manufacture.

I've cut a few boards up myself and am surprised at the construction, there are definate brands I wont touch. A long time misconception is the full carbon slalom board, with most having only a carbon deck or carbon from mast-track back. Only last year some competitors came out and claimed some brands slalom boards (a steal at almost $3000) would only last one season before they went floppy. Fair enough you want light but the premium over a freeride/wave board should be going towards increased use of carbon.

Increasingly brands are skimping to cut costs; take sails, most race/freerace sails 10 years ago had full carbon tube rod battens. Look at them now and many have carbon tubes only.

Instead of websites cutting the boards apart, hopefully production board wavesailing competition will take over with rules that board lasts length of the competition. If it breaks it is not the competitor that is penalised but the companys' seasonal points, with points from breakage greater than points gained by wins.

It'd be good to see a consumer website with pics of gear construction, but I guess it'd end in a litigation nightmare. Fair enough it wont be new boards being cut-up but they should still suffer from being tight-asses in the past.

Pryde imo are working their way to being at the top again in design and construction. JP's I dunno... I wont touch them

Droooooolllllll

quote:

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Originally posted by mkseven

the actual breakages due to faults by cobra would be relatively small and most faults would be quick to show.

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Dunno about that. Every single board I have seen snapped or severely creased, due to impact with water (not dinged by banging it off the water), has had an area of fibreglass cloth not fully wet out. Guess where that is: right on the fracture.

It is so so so easy to spot cloth that is not fully wet out that there realy is no excuse. Especially as it is hand squeegee'd at Cobra. It is probably only one board in 100 but as I said it is so easy to spot that it is inexcusable. It is like having a 2" x 2" area on a car not painted!
This is nothing to with the brand discusion, it happens to all mass produced boards somewhat equally.

What is annoying is that it doesn't break under warranty, usually after 2 yrs of duress. If you bought the next board off the production line you may have sailed it the same for 5yrs before it broke.