Forums > Windsurfing General

Kid's Rig Beware

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Created by dune 1 month ago, 15 Jul 2019
dune
5 posts
15 Jul 2019 8:35AM
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A warning to anyone about to buy a kid's rig:
Just got one from a retailer in WA, good price, gear all brand new, BUT . . .
- Mast is 2 piece, alloy 35mm, that simply WILL NOT BEND
- Sail is made for bendy mast, WILL NOT RIG on stiff mast
- Vendor says his kid uses one just the same (impossible)
- Vendor says send back for refund if not satisfied
So I'm down $50 + $50 for courier each way, plus a waste of time & effort. The rig is clearly not usable. When they get it back they'll just sell it again until it ends with someone who does not know the difference and thinks the problem is their own fault.
WHY DO VENDORS DO THIS CRAP ? MUST BE REALLY HARD UP.

Subsonic
WA, 1712 posts
15 Jul 2019 9:37AM
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Which rig? Most kids rigs ive seen don't rig on a bendy mast?

dune
5 posts
15 Jul 2019 9:44AM
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STX is the lable on the sail, looks nice. I know what you mean, have seen kid's sails fit on a rigid pole, but this sail absolutely needs some bend in the mast. When you get it with a rigid pole, you don't have a "rig".

ratz
WA, 356 posts
15 Jul 2019 9:52AM
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prob needs more downhaul....

Paducah
420 posts
15 Jul 2019 10:04AM
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Way back when I used both HSM and Sailworks kids rigs. Both worked just like the bigger versions. Worth every bit that I spent. So nice to have a 1.7 that you trim just like your own - made my kids' lives so much easier and enjoyable. I can not emphasize enough how much proper gear matters to them.

Rus13b
NSW, 248 posts
15 Jul 2019 12:11PM
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80- 100% carbon sunshine masts are great for cutting dwn to suit kids rigs.
got 1 in a 1.5 & 2.5 hsm.

philn
251 posts
15 Jul 2019 10:29AM
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HSM kids rigs are fantastic. Currently have 2.1 for daughter and 3.0 for son.

stehsegler
WA, 2988 posts
15 Jul 2019 11:14AM
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Have you tried more down haul? My kids started with a Vandal sail. I needs a lot of downhaul to sit right.

dune
5 posts
15 Jul 2019 12:57PM
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the mast is a rigid pole. . . . forcing downhaul can produce only one result.

I need to get a mast that bends.

stehsegler
WA, 2988 posts
15 Jul 2019 2:32PM
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Are you saying the mast is solid? If not laws of mechanics dictate that the mast will bend... to some extend.

decrepit
WA, 9275 posts
15 Jul 2019 4:27PM
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Select to expand quote
stehsegler said..
Are you saying the mast is solid? If not laws of mechanics dictate that the mast will bend... to some extend.


Yes Ali will bend, but it normally stays bent! Far from ideal.

Foghorn
WA, 209 posts
15 Jul 2019 5:22PM
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What size is it and what stage of learning?
You will only need a sail that twists once they are planing in harness and straps.Otherwise if the sail is light to uphaul thats all is required.
They used to make alloy masts for speed sails back in the 80s to keep the rig stiff and light.

Madge
NSW, 164 posts
15 Jul 2019 7:51PM
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Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.

elmo
WA, 7937 posts
15 Jul 2019 6:16PM
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So whats your problem? the STX site states it has an Ali mast and you expect something different

The Hot sails set up I had for my kids also had an Ali mast and worked perfectly well with it as I imagine this would as well.


A nice whinge from a 4 post wonder (all on these two threads) probably green thumbed with your normal account.

Plainview
WA, 144 posts
15 Jul 2019 7:17PM
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Carantoc
NSW, 4383 posts
15 Jul 2019 9:24PM
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Look on the bright side.

dune found a courier who freighted an entire rig (twice), for a fair price and didn't loose it or damage it.

Got to be first for these forums.

Probably most useful info here is what courier did you use ?

amirite
233 posts
15 Jul 2019 7:31PM
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Select to expand quote
dune said..
the mast is a rigid pole. . . . forcing downhaul can produce only one result.

I need to get a mast that bends.


do you need a fainting couch

Subsonic
WA, 1712 posts
15 Jul 2019 7:45PM
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Select to expand quote
Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.


This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?

Subsonic
WA, 1712 posts
15 Jul 2019 7:46PM
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Select to expand quote
amirite said..

dune said..
the mast is a rigid pole. . . . forcing downhaul can produce only one result.

I need to get a mast that bends.



do you need a fainting couch


Quite dramatic isn't he?

amirite
233 posts
15 Jul 2019 8:07PM
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Select to expand quote
Subsonic said..

amirite said..


dune said..
the mast is a rigid pole. . . . forcing downhaul can produce only one result.

I need to get a mast that bends.




do you need a fainting couch



Quite dramatic isn't he?


*clutching my pearl necklace as we speak

amirite
233 posts
15 Jul 2019 8:18PM
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Select to expand quote
Subsonic said..

Madge said..
they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?



he's hating the $100 he shelled out for couriers and the waste of his valuable time.
that's what he said :

Paducah
420 posts
15 Jul 2019 10:33PM
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Select to expand quote
Subsonic said..



Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.





This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?




Your struggles are over. As I said above, HSM, Sailworks do. They rig and tune just like the "big people" versions. Kid rigs got radically better when sailmakers started having kids of their own ending the era of the triangle cloth rigged on an aluminum pole.

www.hotsailsmaui.com/sail.php?uid=12
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/ripper.html


gorgesailor
179 posts
16 Jul 2019 12:47AM
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Select to expand quote
Paducah said..

Subsonic said..




Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.






This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?





Your struggles are over. As I said above, HSM, Sailworks do. They rig and tune just like the "big people" versions. Kid rigs got radically better when sailmakers started having kids of their own ending the era of the triangle cloth rigged on an aluminum pole.

www.hotsailsmaui.com/sail.php?uid=12
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/ripper.html



The HSM & Sailworks Kids rigs are great, but they are not cheap. Like was said earlier, if your kid is ready to get planing, in the harness, straps etc then these are great rigs to take them to the next level. This STX actually looks pretty nice for 1st rig - reminds me of the Ezzy & Chinook rigs which are Superlight, also rig on 2 piece Aluminum mast that is not designed to bend much. In fact you can easily downhaul the required amount with 1:1 rope & the only bend in the mast comes from the outhaul. So it sounds like he may be expecting a bit much of this rig....

Paducah
420 posts
16 Jul 2019 12:54AM
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Select to expand quote
gorgesailor said..


Paducah said..



Subsonic said..






Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.








This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?







Your struggles are over. As I said above, HSM, Sailworks do. They rig and tune just like the "big people" versions. Kid rigs got radically better when sailmakers started having kids of their own ending the era of the triangle cloth rigged on an aluminum pole.

www.hotsailsmaui.com/sail.php?uid=12
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/ripper.html





The HSM & Sailworks Kids rigs are great, but they are not cheap. Like was said earlier, if your kid is ready to get planing, in the harness, straps etc then these are great rigs to take them to the next level. This STX actually looks pretty nice for 1st rig - reminds me of the Ezzy & Chinook rigs which are Superlight, also rig on 2 piece Aluminum mast that is not designed to bend much. In fact you can easily downhaul the required amount with 1:1 rope & the only bend in the mast comes from the outhaul. So it sounds like he may be expecting a bit much of this rig....



Not cheap but great value. How my son started using a harness at age 8. It doesn't take a kid long to get into a harness when you weigh 30 kg and on a 200 l board,

But they don't have to be that advanced to take advantage of a good rig - the wider wind range really helps with gusts, wind more than anticipated, etc. And these rigs do a good job of going upwind - always a challenge with smaller rigs. Every kid I put on these rigs had a good time and found windsurfing easy.

The STX rig, as you suggest, may be good enough. The original poster was looking for a rig that behaved like full size rigs - they do exist. All my quiver (rigs and boards) money for about 10 years went to the kids and was worth everything and more. I'm glad I did it.

dune
5 posts
16 Jul 2019 11:54AM
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Hey guys I was just posting a warning to possible new buyers, and venting some frustration.
I didn't realise that I was inviting a gob fest from people who know so much about what they haven't seen. (why so defensive for the vendor).
I have another kids rig that down hauls, out hauls, and shapes up beautifully. When the sail laid out flat shows an obvious curve in the luff you need the mast to bend a little. It's not rocket science.
Thanks for the helpful advice to those who gave it.

Madge
NSW, 164 posts
16 Jul 2019 7:06PM
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Just because you have a little curve in the sail's luff doesn't mean the mast will bend, the curve could cause the battens to rotate.
Which is known as luff shaping.

peterowensbabs
NSW, 197 posts
8 Aug 2019 9:12PM
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Select to expand quote
dune said..
Hey guys I was just posting a warning to possible new buyers, and venting some frustration.
I didn't realise that I was inviting a gob fest from people who know so much about what they haven't seen. (why so defensive for the vendor).
I have another kids rig that down hauls, out hauls, and shapes up beautifully. When the sail laid out flat shows an obvious curve in the luff you need the mast to bend a little. It's not rocket science.
Thanks for the helpful advice to those who gave it.


I guess people were defending the vendor because they are selling the product not designing it. You chose the product, you decided it was not what you were after and the vendor took it back. Id call that pretty good of them, don't think a car dealer or an electronics dealer would do that. As someone said the product details were online, and Im sure there would be images specs reviews etc etc. We get your frustrated that the product was not what you expected but I don't think bagging the vendor out is necessary fair in this case.

peterowensbabs
NSW, 197 posts
8 Aug 2019 9:54PM
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Select to expand quote
Paducah said..

Subsonic said..




Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.






This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?





Your struggles are over. As I said above, HSM, Sailworks do. They rig and tune just like the "big people" versions. Kid rigs got radically better when sailmakers started having kids of their own ending the era of the triangle cloth rigged on an aluminum pole.

www.hotsailsmaui.com/sail.php?uid=12
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/ripper.html



What an awesome little ripper he is!

Paducah
420 posts
9 Aug 2019 8:36AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
peterowensbabs said..

Paducah said..


Subsonic said..





Madge said..
Just googled STX kids windsurfing sail and they only have a slight bend in the luff area.
Judging by the terminology used in this thread I'd say the purchaser doesn't have much of a clue bout windsurfing.

The " Pole " will look very straight and wont look " Bendy " but if rigged properly, using the pulleys at the mast base, it should have a slight bend.







This^^^

im struggling to think of a trainer/kids rig that does have a "flex" mast. all the ones ive seen are purely to learn manoeuvres on. They will carry a little bend and let the leech go slightly floppy, but they're not at all designed like a bigger sail.

I think what you're actually after is a mast made of a more durable material that'll cope with the small amount of flex for longer. You maybe able to source a mast made of fibreglass somewhere, but reality is, most kids rigs come with an ally mast, because its cheaper (for everybody, you included) and adequate for the job.

I think the vendor has really helped you out considering what the gripe is. They've sold you a product as it comes, its functioned as it should but not how you thought, and now they've said they'll take it back off your hands and refund your money. Wheres the problem?






Your struggles are over. As I said above, HSM, Sailworks do. They rig and tune just like the "big people" versions. Kid rigs got radically better when sailmakers started having kids of their own ending the era of the triangle cloth rigged on an aluminum pole.

www.hotsailsmaui.com/sail.php?uid=12
www.sailworks.com/the-gear/sails/ripper.html




What an awesome little ripper he is!


If you are referring to the young man in the video - he's not mine. (He is good, isn't he!) Mine is all grown now.

simon78
34 posts
Sunday , 11 Aug 2019 12:17PM
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I learned to windsurf in the summer of 85-86.

the first set up my dad bought for me was a 'see skip', the sail was a 2.8 and the mast was a 2 piece 40/36mm aluminium pole that did not bend, until one day it creased above the boom. It was perfect to learn the basics. When I learned to use a harness and get planing it became useless as the foot straps and their positioning were terrible.

i moved onto the smallest short board we could find at the time it was fibreglass weighed less than a 8kg and had about 70 litres of volume. Coupled that with a 2.5 m gastra wave sail. Having a the most flexible fibre glass mast cut down was essential for progression. But the sail was heavy, it forced me to learn to water start to increase my water time.

Dad did buy a replacement mast and have the sea skip sail repaired. My younger brother also learnt on that set up.

we kept that gear for other people's children to use and when I was 14 the light weight sail made it perfect for use on a skateboard in 8ish knots of wind. I learned to duck gybe and sail clew first on a skate board. Was a good starting point for getting it down on water, and learning to water start clew first.

i think the weight of the sail is important to reduce fatigue when learning. if an inflexible mast dramatically reduces weight when uphauling I would consider it.

If you don't have to pull massive amounts of downhaul a small child can rig and pack up their own kit. That also increases self rescue options.

The idea of a mast not bending does sound ridiculous, perhaps there is a reason.



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"Kid's Rig Beware" started by dune