Forums > Windsurfing General

Longboard trouble in + 15 knots

Reply
Created by Skylon 25 days ago, 3 Feb 2020
Skylon
4 posts
3 Feb 2020 1:43AM
Thumbs Up

Hi! Im a beginner and have been sailing for 6 months or so. Ive been on a beginner board with an instructor my first time and managed planing and tacks reasonably well in 15 knots. After that i decided to buy a longboard for learning and to use as SUP. Bought a F2 lightning 1983 with a 6.4 F2 "fun" sail, looks like dacron and its quite old i think but not a triangle sail but abit more modern. In lightwind im doing okay, the problems start at 15 knots and up. The board turns upwind instantly and i cant seem to get any control of the sail. Mostly wrestling it until i get into sailing position and even then i dont seem to keep a stable heading but loose control or turn upwind or get backwinded. Is there any trick to sailing a longboard in high wind conditions? Thinking of buying a starboard start 141 L and a HSM superfreak 5-6 and a HSM speedfreak 8 for the longboard and the start. Should i just give up on the longboard and just use it for lightwind and use the starboard start in high winds? I live in sweden so alot of chop and small waves, all surfers use shortboards around my place so i cant ask anyone for tips, they just tell me to use the longboard in sub 12 knots.
This is the desired look:


:D
Cheers guys!

boardsurfr
WA, 994 posts
3 Feb 2020 3:16AM
Thumbs Up

Most likely, a lot of your problems come from the sail. I bought an F2 fun sail around 1980, so chances are that your sail is about as old. Sails from that time had lots of power but also were hard to handle when the wind picked up. In 15 knots, I'd have no problem planing on a 5.4 F2 fun sail.

Since your experience is limited, you may be compounding the issue by not trimming the sail correctly. If you're using way too little downhaul, the sail would be completely unmanageable when the wind picks up.

Your best bet is to get a newer sail, something from the last 10 years or so.

LeeD
1008 posts
3 Feb 2020 4:19AM
Thumbs Up

Just ask for a freebie 4.5-5.5 sail.


cammd
QLD, 2601 posts
3 Feb 2020 7:30AM
Thumbs Up

Basic settings for a raceboard like an f2 lightning as follows.

Upwind: mast track forward and centreboard down in all winds.

Reaching and downwind: centreboard up. In non planning keep track forward when planing move track back.

Is your centreboard down when reaching in stronger wind. That will cause the board to be uncontrollable.

Grantmac
155 posts
3 Feb 2020 5:56AM
Thumbs Up

Avoid the Super Freaks. Just get a modern 2 cam 7.5 plus a ~140L freeride. You can use a combination of both boards until its blowing 20kts or so.

Chris 249
NSW, 2297 posts
3 Feb 2020 9:25AM
Thumbs Up

I'm not sure if the '83 Lightning was the old diamond tail or the pintail one we had in '85, but if it's the latter you should be able to sail that gear in 20 knots+ with one hand lightly holding the boom and everything nicely balanced. It's hard to diagnose trouble without seeing you sail, but the issues could be;

1- not using the mast track. It has to be all the way forward when sailing upwind in strong winds.

2- incorrect stance - shortboarders often stand a long way back all the time and if that's all you have around you, you may be copying their stance. That year the F2 Lightning had no "beating straps" to use upwind - if you are using the straps when sailing upwind or in light winds, you are too far back and that will cause the board to turn upwind.

Upwind on a Raceboard you must stand much further forward on the board, with the centreboard down and the mast track forward. See Anders' upwind stance and setup from 53 to 1:09 in this vid;



and compare it to the reaching and downwind style and setup in the rest of the vid. With the '85 Lightning you will be standing even further forward, from memory.

See also the boards going upwind from 1:30 to 2:30 here, and the very different stance and setup to most windsurfers;


The sailors are standing well forward, near the centreboard which is fully down.

As noted above, use plenty of downhaul - although if the rig is an '85 one it doesn't need as much downhaul as a modern sail.

cammd
QLD, 2601 posts
3 Feb 2020 10:24AM
Thumbs Up

Regarding the sailing position that is forcing you upwind. You cannot stand at the back of a longboard until your planing. You need to bear away onto a broadreach and move back as the board picks up speed. The video you posted shows guys blasting along on a reach, you need to bear away a bit and build speed before you can come back up onto a reach, just for a few metres until you can get into the harness and straps.

jirvin4505
QLD, 1039 posts
3 Feb 2020 12:45PM
Thumbs Up

++ modern sail

if you are a lightweight a 141 l start may not be best choice if you can already sail F2 lightning in winds of 15knts

what does your instructor suggest.

cheers Jeff

MatStirl
QLD, 95 posts
3 Feb 2020 12:53PM
Thumbs Up

Rounding up on a longboard in strong winds......like Cammd said lift the centreboard fully up! Sail shape etc might also have some effect but no where near as much as if the c'board was down.
Only time c'board would usually be down in 15 knots + is when tacking into the wind. You would also usually be standing on the rail in this case.

Once the mast track is back and cboard up raceboards are way more fun than most people realise in strong winds - and a lot like a big slalom board.

Skylon
4 posts
3 Feb 2020 1:23PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for all the answers!
Yeah, if looking at the vid im definately standing way too far back on the board, ill try to stand more forward and copy the stance the best i can. The board has a diamond tail i believe:
www.pinterest.com/pin/6192518222517380/
The mast track ive had in the middle all the time so mistake there, if im upwind masttrack forward, got it!
Ok then ill buy a new modern sail first instead of buying a new shortboard and ill keep on trying to control the raceboard :)
Might get a 140 L or so later then when im in more control of it.
Ill try to find some instructor too i think when the winters over and they are back, maybe someones used a raceboard before :p
Regarding the superfreak, its not a good choice? Find it hard to choose a sail but it should be camed and 7 ish? Or a smaller sail like 5?
Thanks again!

cammd
QLD, 2601 posts
3 Feb 2020 8:30PM
Thumbs Up

You can generally use bigger sails on a longboard because you are not stuck just reaching. Sailing upwind and downwind you can use and mostly do want bigger sails. A 7.0 mtr would be a small sail for a longboard in experienced hands. If you had to go down to a 5 it would be time to put the longboard away and go shortboarding.

Skylon
4 posts
3 Feb 2020 10:38PM
Thumbs Up

Ok, then ill start looking for a 7-8 modern sail and try that. In the summer i can rent a shortboard and a small sail and figure out next step from that.
I will master the raceboard one day hopefully

gorgesailor
263 posts
4 Feb 2020 5:27AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Skylon said..
Ok, then ill start looking for a 7-8 modern sail and try that. In the summer i can rent a shortboard and a small sail and figure out next step from that.
I will master the raceboard one day hopefully


Nothing wrong with Superfreaks, but for a Raceboard not the ideal sail. In the 5-6m size they are manever oriented sails. The Speedfreak may be suitable in larger sizes but generally speaking Raceboards work better with bigger sails & need a bit of boom length to push around in transitions & balance out in a straight line.

Chris 249
NSW, 2297 posts
4 Feb 2020 8:36AM
Thumbs Up

Also, be careful about getting the right "modern" sail. There are modern Raceboard sails as well, and they are different from most modern sails. Raceboards are often sailed in lighter winds and are designed to go upwind as well as just reach, so Raceboard sails tend to have more depth and a tighter leach for more power. A typical "modern" sail designed for a shortboard is very flat and has a very open leach, and won't drive a longboard very well unless it's very windy.

boardsurfr
WA, 994 posts
4 Feb 2020 11:49AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris 249 said..
Also, be careful about getting the right "modern" sail. There are modern Raceboard sails as well, and they are different from most modern sails. Raceboards are often sailed in lighter winds and are designed to go upwind as well as just reach, so Raceboard sails tend to have more depth and a tighter leach for more power. A typical "modern" sail designed for a shortboard is very flat and has a very open leach, and won't drive a longboard very well unless it's very windy.


True, but mostly irrelevant for a beginner or intermediate. Even with a regular shortboard sail, the Lightning will still point much better than a shortboard and plane just fine. Raceboard specific sails can be great, but unless you're racing, not really necessary.

Chris 249
NSW, 2297 posts
5 Feb 2020 10:21AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
boardsurfr said..

Chris 249 said..
Also, be careful about getting the right "modern" sail. There are modern Raceboard sails as well, and they are different from most modern sails. Raceboards are often sailed in lighter winds and are designed to go upwind as well as just reach, so Raceboard sails tend to have more depth and a tighter leach for more power. A typical "modern" sail designed for a shortboard is very flat and has a very open leach, and won't drive a longboard very well unless it's very windy.



True, but mostly irrelevant for a beginner or intermediate. Even with a regular shortboard sail, the Lightning will still point much better than a shortboard and plane just fine. Raceboard specific sails can be great, but unless you're racing, not really necessary.


Depends on what you think is good enough, I suppose, but the point is that some modern sails are a lot better than others. A 7m "raceboard style" sail will be lighter and easier to use than a 9m slalom sail on a longboard, for instance.

When we've been teaching beginners (which we did every week for some time) quite a few times we noted that putting someone on the right sail (ie a Barracouta 4.5 cut like an LT sail, rather than a horrible old pinhead or a 4.5 wavesail) would be the difference between them struggling and them sailing around happily. The times I've used a longboard with a wave or slalom type sail on it, it's been noticeable how much it reduced the board's performance while making it harder to sail.

Something like an Ezzy Zephyr could be a good way to go, or a Hot Sails Maui Speed Freak?

www.ezzy.com/2015-sails/ezzy-zephyr/

cammd
QLD, 2601 posts
5 Feb 2020 10:32AM
Thumbs Up

Techno 7.8 would be an ideal sail for a raceboard.

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
5 Feb 2020 8:46AM
Thumbs Up

I use Mistral One Design 7.4 m2 twin cam by Gaastra (I have a few 2000 and 2004 versions) on a 2000 Mistral 495 cm two piece carbon mast. I am lucky I have one of these but I think they are great sails and easy to rig. I think a few of these are shown in the video posted of the 2009 Raceboard Worlds posted above. You can often get spare cams and spare battens off old "bin ready" Rushwind sails and Gaastras of the early 90s which use the same cam.

Also a World Cup Racing Neil Pryde 7.0m 2 - 7.5 m2 sail from the early 1990s is a good sail too for a longboard similar to those shown in the Anders Bringdal video. Sometimes these can be picked up very cheap in excellent as new condition. It is amazing how many of these are sitting in sheds not being used.

I also have a 9.5 m2 2017 Ezzy Lion 3 twin cam which is an excellent sail for the longboard too. It has good light wind power.

In recent times more regularly I use the Mistral One Design 7.4 m2 twin cam. These sails can sometimes be picked up on seabreeze or even in the UK in excellent condition for a small fee.

Skylon
4 posts
5 Feb 2020 8:55PM
Thumbs Up

Mistral one design by gaastra i think i could find here so ill keep a lookout for that. Ezzy zephyr seems hard to find here, one guy is importing HSM sails so ive asked him for the price of the speedfreak. Techno 7.8 might be around aswell. Theres alot of Kona rigs and sails but mixed reviews on the sail so im not sure. Hopefully something pops up.

NotWal
QLD, 7227 posts
5 Feb 2020 11:47PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Grantmac said..
Avoid the Super Freaks. Just get a modern 2 cam 7.5 plus a ~140L freeride. You can use a combination of both boards until its blowing 20kts or so.


What's wrong with HS Super Freaks?

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
5 Feb 2020 10:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Skylon said..
Mistral one design by gaastra i think i could find here so ill keep a lookout for that. Ezzy zephyr seems hard to find here, one guy is importing HSM sails so ive asked him for the price of the speedfreak. Techno 7.8 might be around aswell. Theres alot of Kona rigs and sails but mixed reviews on the sail so im not sure. Hopefully something pops up.


Yes here is a good example of how cheap and accessible the kit is in the UK. You might do similar in Sweden.

www.ebay.com.au/itm/mistral-windsurfing-3-72-Job-Lot-/124030896775?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=31hGq2vPQmv0G%252BMZftJtbG0DbzE%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Longboard trouble in + 15 knots" started by Skylon