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Narrow Grip or V-Grip Boom to Reduce Forearm Pain

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Created by wind012 1 month ago, 16 Jan 2019
wind012
WA, 115 posts
16 Jan 2019 9:01PM
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As much as I try to use my harness effectively, I suffer from painful forearms which is reducing my time on the water.

I am using a 27mm boom but have never used a narrow grip boom at 24 to 25mm.

I have shortlisted:
- AL360 Carbon Slim 140-190 25mm v-grip
- Chinook RDG 135-185 24.5mm
- North Megaslim 140-180 24mm

Would be great to hear any feedback for the 25mm V-grip compared to my other shortlist options or other narrow grip booms such as:
- Severne Enigma 140-190 25mm
- Goya Super Skinny 140-190 24.5mm

Will a 25mm V-grip be more comfortable than a 24mm round-grip?

All measurements exclude grip.

Mark _australia
WA, 18689 posts
16 Jan 2019 9:06PM
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Where is the pain?
Caused by?

What do you mean by using the harness effectively? Can you sail say 50% of the time with no hands (planing) and maintain course and speed and not be terrified? If you can, then maybe you need to consider grips..... if not, its probably setup or major shifty winds requiring input.
As to the latter- I can sail 3hrs in summer compared to 30mins in winter when its gusty and shifty. The amount of arm input varies drastically.

My point is that pain is probably not the boom . Unless you buy a new carbon one which has $100 materials and cost $1200. There's pain.

remery
WA, 325 posts
16 Jan 2019 9:44PM
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I find less forearm pain this year with my Enigma 160 carbon boom. Its my first skinny boom with nice grip. Less callouses as well.

forceten
509 posts
16 Jan 2019 11:34PM
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www.surfertoday.com/windsurfing/9797-why-reduced-diameter-windsurf-booms-minimize-forearm-fatigue

Only test I have ever seen.
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.

the V grip, may help . It makes sense from a ergonomic POV. The human body is unique , something that works for someone, may not at all for others, or they may not have the same issue.
THE ALs , I have a larger one also are brilliant, jewel like, the grips are the weak part, they fray and nick.Both mine came from the UK, no dealers in USA.
I love the ALs, no regrets.

olskool
QLD, 1015 posts
17 Jan 2019 2:45AM
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My 2c- I find Vgrip the ergonomical advantage. But each to their own. Ive Vgripped a couple of booms myself. Vgrip allows you to hold the boom more in the fingers than against the palm where the fingers join the hand... Much easier to hold for me. Allows better wrist articulation n more 'piano' pressure grip.. If i had the $$ id go the AL360. Looks an awesome boom with all the features i desire. As Mark said gusty conditions promote a death grip on boom. So does incorrect harness line length. Im no guru, but find this from my experiences.

wind012
WA, 115 posts
17 Jan 2019 4:56AM
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Select to expand quote
forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.


In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?

col5555
WA, 303 posts
17 Jan 2019 6:52AM
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If your sailing at mville today you can try my al360 v grip. But if you break it you've bought it pm me for details.

Mastbender
1838 posts
17 Jan 2019 9:23AM
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My brother had the same problem, he could only sail for short sessions until the pain was too much. It turned out to be his wetsuit, it fit too tight around his forearms, so he added some zippers from the wrists to about half way to the elbows to widen them out, and the problem vanished.

t2wheeler
WA, 138 posts
17 Jan 2019 10:58AM
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Lot's of possible causes / influences for this, as already highlighted in previous posts in this thread. I think vice-like grip is usually the main culprit, exacerbated by boom size/grip, conditions, wetsuit tightness etc.

Arm conditioning is important, but none of us can be bothered with that, and once the condition starts it's difficult to get rid of while you're windsurfing regularly.

I got one of these a few weeks ago - 4Arm Strong device. Yes it looks like a torture device, and it's rather spendy (although much cheaper than a new boom), but it really seems to work for me. Ordered mine online from a shop in UK. You don't wear it while you're windsurfing btw, it's for focused stretching of the forearm muscles.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company




olskool
QLD, 1015 posts
19 Jan 2019 1:47PM
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Excercise the forearm muscles. I used a Theraband to relieve severe tennis elbow pain. Twisting style action. But that has since disappeared. To increase grip strength use a squash ball or tennis ball n crush it in your hand repeatedly. You will end up with great hand strength.

NotWal
QLD, 6740 posts
19 Jan 2019 6:39PM
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Select to expand quote
t2wheeler said..
Lot's of possible causes / influences for this, as already highlighted in previous posts in this thread. I think vice-like grip is usually the main culprit, exacerbated by boom size/grip, conditions, wetsuit tightness etc.

Arm conditioning is important, but none of us can be bothered with that, and once the condition starts it's difficult to get rid of while you're windsurfing regularly.

I got one of these a few weeks ago - 4Arm Strong device. Yes it looks like a torture device, and it's rather spendy (although much cheaper than a new boom), but it really seems to work for me. Ordered mine online from a shop in UK. You don't wear it while you're windsurfing btw, it's for focused stretching of the forearm muscles.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company





Could you achieve something similar by self massage with a golf ball?

martR
22 posts
19 Jan 2019 4:42PM
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Two Tips:

One, buy a Severne Primo wetsuit... they have more space and freedom in de arms and i promise you you will have less painfull forearms.
Two, buy the AL360 Slim carbon 140- , i have used al the booms like al360 , Tecno Limits sleek , Chinook 24,5 carbon and many more and the al360 slim carbon has by far the smallest diameter of all booms in the front section... and it is also the stiffest and strongest of all.
Myself i have the Severne enigma carbon 140- and i like the end piece with the loop and go a bit more and the boomhead is the best of the market.

wind012
WA, 115 posts
19 Jan 2019 7:07PM
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Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
a) Where is the pain?
b) Caused by?
c) What do you mean by using the harness effectively?
d) Can you sail say 50% of the time with no hands (planing) and maintain course and speed and not be terrified?
e) Unless you buy a new carbon one which has $100 materials and cost $1200. There's pain.


a) forearm painful pump and shredded fingers.
b) hopefully caused by a large 27mm boom diameter? but I will buy a new boom and find out how much it helps. can't waste more years suffering.
c) i am conscious and attempting to put as much load through the harness as possible (as per the last 15 years).
d) not even close to 50% of the time with no hands .. at best, more like 20% of the time is 50% effort through the harness.
e) it's only money .. the real pain is missing years of great down-the-line waves due to $1200.

wind012
WA, 115 posts
19 Jan 2019 7:08PM
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Select to expand quote
martR said..
Two Tips:
a) One, buy a Severne Primo wetsuit... they have more space and freedom in de arms and i promise you you will have less painfull forearms.
b) Two, buy the AL360 Slim carbon 140


a) completed. I only wear short sleeve steamers.
b) completed. thanks.

asturcon
11 posts
21 Jan 2019 11:34PM
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One explanation can be that the muscles in the forearm will have some edema under exercises and compress the nerve correponding to the flexion of the fingers. The nerve is located in the forearm between som muscles as in a "nerve channel". If this is the reason, it is not better with stronger (bigger) forearms as the compression will be the same or worse.
The mayority of the surfers do not have that problem.
JJ

forceten
509 posts
22 Jan 2019 11:23PM
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Select to expand quote
wind012 said..

forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.



In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?


A sailor with forearm cramping, arthritis, tired musles etc : could very well benefit from the v grip.
If no ailment exists then , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wish the AL 360 v grip was availabe in the larger size one.
1 mm is near nothing.

TheTank
82 posts
23 Jan 2019 1:53AM
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Select to expand quote
forceten said..

wind012 said..


forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.




In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?



A sailor with forearm cramping, arthritis, tired musles etc : could very well benefit from the v grip.
If no ailment exists then , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wish the AL 360 v grip was availabe in the larger size one.
1 mm is near nothing.


All carbon AL360's have v-grip.

Slim 140 and 150 have 25 mm
Carbon 140, 150, 160 and 170 have 28 mm
Carbon Slalom 180, 190, 200 and 210 have 29 mm
Carbon Race 220, 230, 240 and 250 have 29,5 mm
RTE 180, 190 and 200 have 28,5 mm.

asturcon
11 posts
23 Jan 2019 9:09PM
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Yes,
All carbon AL360's have v-grip, but the V-grip is not so accentuated as I should like to have it. I have one carbon AL360 slim 150-200 and an Aeron boom. The V-grip in the Aeron boom is much more pronounced.
JJ

gorgesailor
129 posts
24 Jan 2019 1:56AM
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Select to expand quote
asturcon said..
Yes,
All carbon AL360's have v-grip, but the V-grip is not so accentuated as I should like to have it. I have one carbon AL360 slim 150-200 and an Aeron boom. The V-grip in the Aeron boom is much more pronounced.
JJ



I think this is very purposeful. The slight v-grip on the AL360 is very well received whereas not everyone like the Aeron V-grip so a bit like Marmite.(Vegemite... )

forceten
509 posts
24 Jan 2019 11:14PM
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Select to expand quote
gorgesailor said..

asturcon said..
Yes,
All carbon AL360's have v-grip, but the V-grip is not so accentuated as I should like to have it. I have one carbon AL360 slim 150-200 and an Aeron boom. The V-grip in the Aeron boom is much more pronounced.
JJ




I think this is very purposeful. The slight v-grip on the AL360 is very well received whereas not everyone like the Aeron V-grip so a bit like Marmite.(Vegemite... )


The Aeron Vee AFAIK was and or is, available on alloy , it was not molded , it was an addition grafted on, that boom was heavy.

forceten
509 posts
24 Jan 2019 11:16PM
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Select to expand quote
TheTank said..

forceten said..


wind012 said..



forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.





In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?




A sailor with forearm cramping, arthritis, tired musles etc : could very well benefit from the v grip.
If no ailment exists then , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wish the AL 360 v grip was availabe in the larger size one.
1 mm is near nothing.



All carbon AL360's have v-grip.

Slim 140 and 150 have 25 mm
Carbon 140, 150, 160 and 170 have 28 mm
Carbon Slalom 180, 190, 200 and 210 have 29 mm
Carbon Race 220, 230, 240 and 250 have 29,5 mm
RTE 180, 190 and 200 have 28,5 mm.


My long AL360, I need to extract it from a packed storage room. But I don't recall it has Vee .and its carbon. More to follow.

forceten
509 posts
26 Jan 2019 9:11AM
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Select to expand quote
forceten said..

TheTank said..


forceten said..



wind012 said..




forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.






In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?





A sailor with forearm cramping, arthritis, tired musles etc : could very well benefit from the v grip.
If no ailment exists then , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wish the AL 360 v grip was availabe in the larger size one.
1 mm is near nothing.




All carbon AL360's have v-grip.

Slim 140 and 150 have 25 mm
Carbon 140, 150, 160 and 170 have 28 mm
Carbon Slalom 180, 190, 200 and 210 have 29 mm
Carbon Race 220, 230, 240 and 250 have 29,5 mm
RTE 180, 190 and 200 have 28,5 mm.



My long AL360, I need to extract it from a packed storage room. But I don't recall it has Vee .and its carbon. More to follow.


Sorry forgot about my follow up. Try to,update tomorrow

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6424 posts
26 Jan 2019 4:41PM
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So what's V grip? The shape or??

olskool
QLD, 1015 posts
26 Jan 2019 7:11PM
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Select to expand quote
sboardcrazy said..
So what's V grip? The shape or??


The boom tube instead of being round is 'egg' shaped where you grab it. The pointy V part grips into the fingers ( 2nd knuckle)rather than all the load going to where the fingers join the palm of hand. Works for me....
Can be retro gripped to any boom by building up the boom with HD EVA layers sanded to desired shape. Then regrip over it.
COMFY

t2wheeler
WA, 138 posts
26 Jan 2019 5:13PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
NotWal said..

t2wheeler said..
Lot's of possible causes / influences for this, as already highlighted in previous posts in this thread. I think vice-like grip is usually the main culprit, exacerbated by boom size/grip, conditions, wetsuit tightness etc.

Arm conditioning is important, but none of us can be bothered with that, and once the condition starts it's difficult to get rid of while you're windsurfing regularly.

I got one of these a few weeks ago - 4Arm Strong device. Yes it looks like a torture device, and it's rather spendy (although much cheaper than a new boom), but it really seems to work for me. Ordered mine online from a shop in UK. You don't wear it while you're windsurfing btw, it's for focused stretching of the forearm muscles.

No, I'm not affiliated with the company





Could you achieve something similar by self massage with a golf ball?


I don't think so. The aim of this device is to focus stretching / lengthening of the muscle. You tighten up the clamp on your forearm muscle near the elbow tendons and then stretch. It is mainly marketed to motocross riders suffering from forearm pump.

byronmc
NSW, 417 posts
31 Jan 2019 5:39PM
Thumbs Up

I had what is called tennis elbow but ended up being no room for my nerve so after 9 months of not sailing and many many tries at every thing I had an operation called nerve release sailing 3 weeks after it best thing I ever did. had many doctors tell me it was my tendon and yet had nothing to do with it.
I do however find the V grip boom heaps better and I don't like the small diameter it made it worst. I use the AL360 and have a severn and Maui but AL360 is the pick for sure.

forceten
509 posts
5 Feb 2019 2:58AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
TheTank said..

forceten said..


wind012 said..



forceten said..
I have the AL 360, slim v grip. Also a small dia Chinook, which one/ size escapes me.





In summary, would you choose the 25mm v-grip or a 24mm round?




A sailor with forearm cramping, arthritis, tired musles etc : could very well benefit from the v grip.
If no ailment exists then , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wish the AL 360 v grip was availabe in the larger size one.
1 mm is near nothing.



All carbon AL360's have v-grip.

Slim 140 and 150 have 25 mm
Carbon 140, 150, 160 and 170 have 28 mm
Carbon Slalom 180, 190, 200 and 210 have 29 mm
Carbon Race 220, 230, 240 and 250 have 29,5 mm
RTE 180, 190 and 200 have 28,5 mm.


Finally got the opportunity to look at my AL 360 carbon , it's 160-220, and it does have the Vee. I felt it along with the slim at 25 vs 28, the slim feels a more prounced Vee.
its possible I chose both on the Vee, it's a PITA, to have CSR.( can't remember ****)



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"Narrow Grip or V-Grip Boom to Reduce Forearm Pain" started by wind012