Forums > Windsurfing General

Polyurethane and Polyester Resin Wave Boards

Reply
Created by dowls 24 days ago, 3 Feb 2020
dowls
QLD, 256 posts
3 Feb 2020 5:21PM
Thumbs Up

I ride a Delta (WA) kite wave board, traditional construction polyurethane and sun cure resin, custom from Marty, few years ago.
It is heavier than production epoxy.
The weight through the water / chop and riding waves has a connected feel (in not on the water).
More like a surfboard.
Spending more time sailing now than kiting these days.
Based on the above, yesterday I sailed my old 8'6" fibreglass custom sail / wave board (circa 1990).
We had 18 - 20knts.
The board is heavier and older in shape (Longer / Narrower) than 2020 sailboards.
I enjoyed it, found the extra weight sailed through the choppy water and driving through gybe's.
Anyone else using custom polyester or shaping wave boards.
Yep I'm old but years ago custom shapes and colours added to the rigging areas.

Mark _australia
WA, 19682 posts
3 Feb 2020 4:15PM
Thumbs Up

Nope they're bloody awful compared to a light modern shape.

Al Planet
TAS, 1464 posts
3 Feb 2020 7:45PM
Thumbs Up

I sailed some of those poly boards in the early eighties and nineties but I couldn't go back however for someone who is more purely into riding waves I think it would be OK. I think riding epoxy boards does change the way you ride but you only need to look at the older videos to see that good things are possible on poly boards. It's more likely to be someone with the contacts or the skills to shape something for themselves.

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
3 Feb 2020 4:54PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Al Planet said..
I sailed some of those poly boards in the early eighties and nineties but I couldn't go back however for someone who is more purely into riding waves I think it would be OK. I think riding epoxy boards does change the way you ride but you only need to look at the older videos to see that good things are possible on poly boards. It's more likely to be someone with the contacts or the skills to shape something for themselves.



I think the sailor is more important as are the conditions. Hookipa 1988 when the circus came to town and the waves got big (see video at link below). If you have nothing else you might as well use it. Making a new glass one might be interesting and might be cheap if you have the skills and blanks even using more modern designs might be of interest. The blanks don't necessarily support the current volumes and thickness of modern shapes as the 80s boards were relatively thin. I am not a shaper but no one has experimented yet and built a "modern shape " waveboard out of polyester resin reinforced with glass fibre and polyurethane blank unless I am mistaken. The boards might have more flex and a little more weight but it might help tracking in powerful surf & highwind. Another great thing is visuals, artwork and a renaissance for local shapers. Ding repair is easier for you at home in my opinion.

www.facebook.com/groups/oldschoolwindsurfers/permalink/10156765074732591/

Foghorn
WA, 443 posts
3 Feb 2020 5:12PM
Thumbs Up

Stoneys boards are polyester aren't they, he's got a guy riding them that seams to go pretty good.

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
3 Feb 2020 5:21PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Foghorn said..
Stoneys boards are polyester aren't they, he's got a guy riding them that seams to go pretty good.


I think you are correct and I apologise for omitting that. I have never ridden one but they are pretty good by all accounts. I have a really nice Delta Designs glass board with great colour scheme and with a modern mast track position that I might ride one day when I lose about 10 kg. Mark might care to comment on the modern "polyester/polyurethane" waveboard concept.

Imax1
QLD, 2410 posts
3 Feb 2020 7:55PM
Thumbs Up

I think you could make a good polyester board . It would be heavy because you can't use a styrene core.
The shapes have changed the most.

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
3 Feb 2020 7:31PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
I think you could make a good polyester board . It would be heavy because you can't use a styrene core.
The shapes have changed the most.



An advantage of polyurethane is, as far I recall, it doesn't absorb as much water as styrene but it is heavier.

hoop
WA, 1850 posts
3 Feb 2020 8:18PM
Thumbs Up

Poly boards are cool. Stony does a great job with his boards.
I do miss the days of shaping urethane blanks, it's a really nice material to work with.
The simplicity of shaping a blank, glassing it and then you're done is such a good thing.

dowls
QLD, 256 posts
4 Feb 2020 8:21AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
RichardG said..

Al Planet said..
I sailed some of those poly boards in the early eighties and nineties but I couldn't go back however for someone who is more purely into riding waves I think it would be OK. I think riding epoxy boards does change the way you ride but you only need to look at the older videos to see that good things are possible on poly boards. It's more likely to be someone with the contacts or the skills to shape something for themselves.




I think the sailor is more important as are the conditions. Hookipa 1988 when the circus came to town and the waves got big (see video at link below). If you have nothing else you might as well use it. Making a new glass one might be interesting and might be cheap if you have the skills and blanks even using more modern designs might be of interest. The blanks don't necessarily support the current volumes and thickness of modern shapes as the 80s boards were relatively thin. I am not a shaper but no one has experimented yet and built a "modern shape " waveboard out of polyester resin reinforced with glass fibre and polyurethane blank unless I am mistaken. The boards might have more flex and a little more weight but it might help tracking in powerful surf & highwind. Another great thing is visuals, artwork and a renaissance for local shapers. Ding repair is easier for you at home in my opinion.

www.facebook.com/groups/oldschoolwindsurfers/permalink/10156765074732591/


Great video, special era. Never been another Craig Maisonville (no harness) wave sailor.

TD55
WA, 62 posts
4 Feb 2020 10:14AM
Thumbs Up

This is my new 65L Stoney - can only rave about it so far this season. Second board is one of Jaeger's hand me downs also shaped by Mark. To me nothing beats a custom made polyurthane board


515
360 posts
4 Feb 2020 12:18PM
Thumbs Up

I was checking out the Stone boards and they look awesome.
I saw a video of a board being built in time lapse and although polyurethane blank and polyester resin, they are a sandwich construction.
Must be a lighter density blank with foam sandwich bottom and ply/ veneer top (I like how ply gains form strength when curved).
A lot quicker to build than stringer less polystyrene core. No rocker jig required for vacuum bagging and polyester goes off so much faster.

The old days of traditional polyurethane blank and polyester resin, the wave boards were heavy so you wouldn't break them and in Maui no problem with great wind and awesome footage of some great wave sailors of the time
Saying that give Kevin US-3 a polyurethane blank and polyester resin board now and he wouldn't be doing so well in contests.

The redeeming features was how simple and quick they are to make depending on the paint job.

segler
287 posts
4 Feb 2020 4:16PM
Thumbs Up

There are still a lot of windsurfers who actually prefer fiberglass polyester polyurethane-foam boards that are heavy and flexy at such spots as Doug's Beach in the Gorge, where the chop is rough and disorganized. Such boards simply glide through that stuff like butter without rattling the rider's teeth.

The one they don't do nearly as well as the stiff epoxy carbon boards of today is jump high and fly.

Brent in Qld
QLD, 216 posts
4 Feb 2020 8:59PM
Thumbs Up

Part of the rise of epoxy boards was/is the toxic nature of old school PU+polyester construction, in particular the emissions of the resin system & the manufacture of polyurethane foam. Purely from a health perspective...

Epoxy resin has approx. 75% less VOCs in it than its equivalent weight of standard polyester resin. Epoxy resin also emits about 2/3 less VOCs during the curing process. Modern UV curing resins go a long way to cleaning up the construction.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_organic_compound#Health_risks

The normal catalyst (MEKP-an organic peroxide) for standard polyester resins needs to be handled with extreme caution.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_ethyl_ketone_peroxide

An EPS blank isn't the nicest material but the old PU blanks contained one pretty bad chemical in particular, toluene diisocyanate (classified as a possible occupational carcinogen) part of the reason making PU surf blanks in AUS became so difficult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene_diisocyanate#Hazards

Professionals with good working practices and conditions can reduce risks to near zero. If you're operating in the backyard or the garage with any of this stuff, read the material data sheets before proceeding!

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
4 Feb 2020 9:40PM
Thumbs Up

I think for traditional logs and surfboards I much prefer volane glass/polyester resin / polyurethane blank boards. I also have found epoxy surfboards not great last one I rode in 2010 managed to snap and ding easily (SLX construction by GSI ) and while it was light it seemed to float more and have less flex. It was repairable but never again. The latest Surftech and others might be good but I have preferences. Now windsurfing boards are mass produced in overseas Asian factories and while that might be good lets not forget many great surfboards are made in Australia and in the USA still using polyester/PU construction. I am sure the health risks are addressed as epoxy is not exactly a safety delight either. Also are not Burford blanks and Surfblanks both made in Australia still ? What blanks does Stone use ?

stonesurf
WA, 68 posts
5 Feb 2020 9:06AM
Thumbs Up

There a 3 types of PU foam from Burford. Supalite (old school sailboards) , Feather (standard surfboards ) and Ultra (lightweight surfboards) . I pushed Burford to develop the Ultra Ultra foam, stringerless, only available to me. Everything else in the construction is sandwich, pvc or wood, top and bottom , with carbon where needed. Weights match standard pop outs, not as light as superlight carbon epoxies, but they do not last long in Geraldton WA. You need to weigh boards with all the fins, metal plates and footstraps attached. I react to epoxy, though l can do repairs now, but the polyester resins l use have outperformed the epoxy equivalents, with boards lasting yrs and yrs. The ride is smoother, better for waveriding and on the knees. Started 20 yrs ago, and now have numerous worlds champs on my designs, and major titles, (Red Bull) let alone Aussie wave titles. My board designs are available through Starboard for the masses. I make fins for many of the top PWA sailors as well. This is just me in my tin shed alone, offering customs at 2/3 the price of retail epoxy boards. Stone Surfboards is not a marketing genius, just focused on each new custom board- surf ,sail, kite or repairs.


TD55
WA, 62 posts
5 Feb 2020 10:07AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
stonesurf said..
There a 3 types of PU foam from Burford. Supalite (old school sailboards) , Feather (standard surfboards ) and Ultra (lightweight surfboards) . I pushed Burford to develop the Ultra Ultra foam, stringerless, only available to me. Everything else in the construction is sandwich, pvc or wood, top and bottom , with carbon where needed. Weights match standard pop outs, not as light as superlight carbon epoxies, but they do not last long in Geraldton WA. You need to weigh boards with all the fins, metal plates and footstraps attached. I react to epoxy, though l can do repairs now, but the polyester resins l use have outperformed the epoxy equivalents, with boards lasting yrs and yrs. The ride is smoother, better for waveriding and on the knees. Started 20 yrs ago, and now have numerous worlds champs on my designs, and major titles, (Red Bull) let alone Aussie wave titles. My board designs are available through Starboard for the masses. I make fins for many of the top PWA sailors as well. This is just me in my tin shed alone, offering customs at 2/3 the price of retail epoxy boards. Stone Surfboards is not a marketing genius, just focused on each new custom board- surf ,sail, kite or repairs.



"What he said"...new boards are strong, light & responsive plus value for money compared to production pop outs

RichardG
WA, 3063 posts
5 Feb 2020 10:13AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
stonesurf said..
There a 3 types of PU foam from Burford. Supalite (old school sailboards) , Feather (standard surfboards ) and Ultra (lightweight surfboards) . I pushed Burford to develop the Ultra Ultra foam, stringerless, only available to me. Everything else in the construction is sandwich, pvc or wood, top and bottom , with carbon where needed. Weights match standard pop outs, not as light as superlight carbon epoxies, but they do not last long in Geraldton WA. You need to weigh boards with all the fins, metal plates and footstraps attached. I react to epoxy, though l can do repairs now, but the polyester resins l use have outperformed the epoxy equivalents, with boards lasting yrs and yrs. The ride is smoother, better for waveriding and on the knees. Started 20 yrs ago, and now have numerous worlds champs on my designs, and major titles, (Red Bull) let alone Aussie wave titles. My board designs are available through Starboard for the masses. I make fins for many of the top PWA sailors as well. This is just me in my tin shed alone, offering customs at 2/3 the price of retail epoxy boards. Stone Surfboards is not a marketing genius, just focused on each new custom board- surf ,sail, kite or repairs.



I just love the passion, innovation and ingenuity. I also like how its happening here in Western Australia. Thanks for sharing.

Mark _australia
WA, 19682 posts
5 Feb 2020 3:25PM
Thumbs Up

Agree with Stoney's post - doesn't have to be epoxy nor have to be styro.

My first comment was in relation to 30 y/o waveboards..... errk.

NordRoi
287 posts
6 Feb 2020 12:33AM
Thumbs Up

In surf, I prefer PU mid-lenght and Longboard, the weight provide glide in surf. I'm not a super good shorboard, my 6'6 is a PU and when I rent gear on Maui, I sometime rent epoxy surf in the same range...and I can't tell.
In windsurfing, whatever the blank or construction, In Surfing(Wavesailing)..is there a threshold to have for momentum, glides and eat the imperfect bump in a face of a wave for a windsurfing board?
I passed from a D-Ram Starboard Kode Wave to a More exotic Severn Nano and I also have a JP Pro super light, and for jumping and throwing air I get it light is fun. But I'm not 100% convince while surfing, I pretty liked the feeling of the D-Ram. I cannot compare them back to back because the Kode was a 87L and the JP was a 73L, but It quite puzzles me the first time I tried the Nano. Is my brain plays me trick...like a nostalgia trick?

mr love
VIC, 1882 posts
6 Feb 2020 6:08AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
stonesurf said..
There a 3 types of PU foam from Burford. Supalite (old school sailboards) , Feather (standard surfboards ) and Ultra (lightweight surfboards) . I pushed Burford to develop the Ultra Ultra foam, stringerless, only available to me. Everything else in the construction is sandwich, pvc or wood, top and bottom , with carbon where needed. Weights match standard pop outs, not as light as superlight carbon epoxies, but they do not last long in Geraldton WA. You need to weigh boards with all the fins, metal plates and footstraps attached. I react to epoxy, though l can do repairs now, but the polyester resins l use have outperformed the epoxy equivalents, with boards lasting yrs and yrs. The ride is smoother, better for waveriding and on the knees. Started 20 yrs ago, and now have numerous worlds champs on my designs, and major titles, (Red Bull) let alone Aussie wave titles. My board designs are available through Starboard for the masses. I make fins for many of the top PWA sailors as well. This is just me in my tin shed alone, offering customs at 2/3 the price of retail epoxy boards. Stone Surfboards is not a marketing genius, just focused on each new custom board- surf ,sail, kite or repairs.



Beautiful !!!

dowls
QLD, 256 posts
6 Feb 2020 10:12AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
mr love said..

stonesurf said..
There a 3 types of PU foam from Burford. Supalite (old school sailboards) , Feather (standard surfboards ) and Ultra (lightweight surfboards) . I pushed Burford to develop the Ultra Ultra foam, stringerless, only available to me. Everything else in the construction is sandwich, pvc or wood, top and bottom , with carbon where needed. Weights match standard pop outs, not as light as superlight carbon epoxies, but they do not last long in Geraldton WA. You need to weigh boards with all the fins, metal plates and footstraps attached. I react to epoxy, though l can do repairs now, but the polyester resins l use have outperformed the epoxy equivalents, with boards lasting yrs and yrs. The ride is smoother, better for waveriding and on the knees. Started 20 yrs ago, and now have numerous worlds champs on my designs, and major titles, (Red Bull) let alone Aussie wave titles. My board designs are available through Starboard for the masses. I make fins for many of the top PWA sailors as well. This is just me in my tin shed alone, offering customs at 2/3 the price of retail epoxy boards. Stone Surfboards is not a marketing genius, just focused on each new custom board- surf ,sail, kite or repairs.



Beautiful !!!


yes very nice, good info and reply, Mark S

lungs
QLD, 477 posts
7 Feb 2020 8:51PM
Thumbs Up

Old boards work if you find the right one, they are obviously heavier, but for me that's good in the bump n jump conditions at my local. I don't loop or do flicky spinny things and not many do where I sail. It gybes easily and keeps up with the modern boards. Its my go to for 25-30knts plus. I had tried more modern shorter epoxy board, but didn't enjoy the constant pounding feeling I was getting through the board, the old board being heavier and with double concaves and decent v underneath seems to cushion the ride. I have replaced the fin box as it tore out on a broad reach in 30knts one day (old white type of box) replaced it with chinook box. Also repositioned the rear foot strap inserts and the sail needs to be right at the back of the mast box to work. Will try to up load some helmet cam footage in gusty winds from 15knts to up around 30knts a few years ago (very annoying conditions and not the usual direction for the beach), Wind was nearly onshore, usually its more cross on so the ramps can be hit nearly head on. Sorry its longish, with a bit of swimming at the start, but some good planning and gybes, and a kiter in the mix as well. hope it uploads.

&list=UUtAQ-uiBT5dztFu0STEQ37w&index=13
Oh yeah and the board cost me sweet fa

jeff0
8 posts
19 Feb 2020 8:40AM
Thumbs Up

Gday I ride/love Pu polyester wave boards

Coming back into the sport started with second hand production before delaminating a couple.
Moved to new production boards before doing the same to them with the last one lasting less than a year.
But im a vent screw champion, keep them cool(im 15minutes from beach) try to never land em flat.
The delams I put down to a rivermouth location with a nasty cross chop leading into waves. The boards take a flogging at full power!!
Sooo I got a Stonesurf wave board. Can't say enough good things about it. 3 plus years and going strong

p.s how good does that stonesurf board look in Stoneys post above?? What a weapon!!
p.p.s the smell of the resin too mmmmmm

decrepit
WA, 9749 posts
19 Feb 2020 10:07AM
Thumbs Up

Yes, stone boards, when I last saw them, are a bit of a hybrid. Modern sandwich construction methods, but with super light urethane core and polyester resin. Great way to go for high wind wave boards. Probably great for high wind speed boards as well. Except if you get too used to them, you could forget about the bungs in your other boards.

decrepit
WA, 9749 posts
19 Feb 2020 10:13AM
Thumbs Up

Come to think of it there's an old polyester urethane wave board of mine in the roof of my shed. We have to clear it out soon, so it's free if anybody wants it. From memory it's a bit soft under one of the footpads.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Polyurethane and Polyester Resin Wave Boards" started by dowls