RSX olympics representation

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yagon
yagon
NSW
64 posts
NSW, 64 posts
10 Aug 2008 11:23pm
Can anyone explain why Australia doesn't appear to have a men's RSX representative at the Olympics?

http://rsx.australiansailingteam.com/

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
11 Aug 2008 7:55am
No Australian male was good enough to meet the Olympic qualifying standard?

Jethrow
Jethrow
NSW
1282 posts
NSW, 1282 posts
11 Aug 2008 8:18am
Only the olympic weightlifters were able to carry it to the water and they were required at another venue?
stehsegler
stehsegler
WA
3580 posts
WA, 3580 posts
11 Aug 2008 1:06pm
the Australian Windsurf Sailing Team... someone tell me again there is no "i" in team... especially when you have a team of one.

to answer Mobydisc' question... I guess no one could be bother to

a) figure our how you actually buy on those RS:X setup
b) spend that much dough while they could be buying a really cool wave sailing setup for the same money and
c) give up at least 2 years of quality wave sailing in order to train for pumping the board around a triangular course

In my opinion the RS:X highlights how silly a lot of the Olympic sports have become. I had a conversation in a pub the other day were people were surprised when I mentioned that windsurfing was an Olympic sport... they didn't realize that the RS:X class was considered windsurfing. To them windsurfing was that thing were "people attach a sail to their surf board and go out to jumps and stuff".
sick_em_rex
sick_em_rex
NSW
1601 posts
NSW, 1601 posts
11 Aug 2008 4:53pm
There was just a grand total of 15 seconds worth of Jessica on channel 7. It showed a howling gail on the course, probably gusting to 5 knots with Jessica feverishly pumping the sail from side to side just to keep bloody moving. The goods news was that she was sitting in second place at the time.
Go Jess!
DAM71
DAM71
QLD
498 posts
QLD, 498 posts
11 Aug 2008 4:55pm
We did not have any qualify.
latedropeddy
latedropeddy
VIC
417 posts
VIC, 417 posts
11 Aug 2008 4:55pm
Just saw some footage of Jessica Crisp - currently coming second. From the brief 30 seconds of footage she is pumping all the way around.

AUS1111
AUS1111
WA
3621 posts
WA, 3621 posts
11 Aug 2008 3:10pm
Yep...Jessica took second!

Great start Jess - keep it up!!!!!
JayBee
JayBee
NSW
714 posts
NSW, 714 posts
11 Aug 2008 5:12pm
stehsegler said...


In my opinion the RS:X highlights how silly a lot of the Olympic sports have become. I had a conversation in a pub the other day were people were surprised when I mentioned that windsurfing was an Olympic sport... they didn't realize that the RS:X class was considered windsurfing. To them windsurfing was that thing were "people attach a sail to their surf board and go out to jumps and stuff".



Sorry to disagree, but a straw poll at the office here tells me that most people think windsurfing is all about longboard sailing, nothing to do with waves at all. (13/20 people in the sample).
On further discussion, in fact RSX racing is far more in line with their expectations of windsurfing then wavesailing at all (18/20 recognise video as windsurfing racing). They believe wavesailing is far more akin to "acrobatics" (term preferred by 8/20 when asked to use a term to describe the activity) then anything else.

13/20 also believe that "artistic" sports have no place in the Olympics.

Yes, my sample size is small, but I am not arsed asking more people.

JB

JB
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
11 Aug 2008 8:18pm
Difference in the answers is that you didn't ask drunks at the pub

Seriously, donno what people you found at the pub, but my neighbours who don't windsurf all seem to know that windsurfing is mostly on the flat. It's 100% of all inland/river sailing, plus at least 90++% of all those as you drive by the water that simply go on long reaches and have fun.

Inland/river/coastal flat sailing is nearly all of America and Europe, plus what I know of Sydney.

In that sense, Olympics racing seen from afar is much closer to what people have seen of windsurfing than fancy jumping on Hawaii videos.
yagon
yagon
NSW
64 posts
NSW, 64 posts
11 Aug 2008 8:31pm
It's a pity that no Australian could qualify for the men's.

Maybe next time.
SeanAUS120
SeanAUS120
QLD
769 posts
QLD, 769 posts
11 Aug 2008 9:51pm
Just to confirm what "qualify" actually means in the RS:X sense...

Australia DID qualify to send a man to the Olympic games. There is only 35 spots available at the Olympics (1 man from 35 countries) and roughly about 42 or so countries who sent a man to the 2007/08 World Championships to try and qualify for one of those spots.

Steve Allen qualified Australia to be able to send a representative by his results at the 2008 RS:X Worlds in New Zealand however he didn't make the "Australian Sailing Team" qualification standards...

They were, to be Top 10 at the World Championships or Top 3 at any of the five Grade 1 Olympic Regattas around the World during the 2007 season.

Interesting to note that probably around 15 or so of the Olympic reps currently competing in Beijing would not have made the Australian Sailing Team qualification standard...

I think it would've been nice if Australia sent a rep like Mike Lancey or even Steve just so that we could plug the fact we'd sent a full team (qualified a sailor in each class) - and also as a bit of practice for London 2012. Statistics show that nobody in sailing wins a gold medal (maybe apart from Belinda Stowell) in their 'first' Olympics... I'm not even sure if ANYBODY will be sailing the Olympic windsurfing class in 2012 :-/
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23685 posts
WA, 23685 posts
11 Aug 2008 10:17pm
It is still BS how the RS:X class even started.

The PWA sailors started Formula in 1998 ish to try and get the Olympics into planing sailing which is what 100% or windsurfers aspire to, and lets say 90% (?) of windsurfers actually achieve.

Planing windsurfing in all conditions from 8kn to 35kn.

If the Olympics had Formula, yes they'd have to put it off some days so why not have 30 days set aside for racing not just the 16 (?) of the Games.

But instead they looked for a slightly modernised version of One Design which has given us what...... expensive One Design racing.

Make it Formula and allow a few more entrants and some TV coverage will be realised. Trouble is Olympic windsurfing is so far removed from what we do, and what people want to see, that it will forever remain on the sidelines. We missed our chance big time.

PS I am not knocking the Olympic windsurfers, they are the fittest athletes out there .... they pump for hours on end. I have enormous respect for them, I just think the IOC and sailing associations need to get rid of the pipe smoking tweed jacket wearing fossils they have and replace them with some progressive thinking folk.

Rant over.
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
12 Aug 2008 1:50am
> Olympic windsurfing is so far removed from what we do
> and what people want to see

Damn, I invested in reading the rant, so I need at least to understand it now...

What is it that we do? And what people wanna see what?

"What we do": there are several things we do - waves, freestyle (of 2-3 flavours), "speed", slalom, racing for some, etc.

"People" if you mean laypeople, then I do freestyle and I can assure you if there's 50 people sailing hard and one doing freestyle, people look at freestyle and nothing else. Then there's 2-3 types of freestyle. Freestyle at Olympics? Which? (Windsurfer freestyle was an absolute spectator success when it was a demo in the 1984 Olympics, in San Diego - big crowds. Ditto '83 Championships in Kingston.).

"People wanna see": if people = windsurfer and screw the rest, then I suspect speedsters will wanna see speed sailing in the Olympics. Freestylists at freestyle, and so on.

I also respect racers, not only for pumping, but all skills including strong winds. The average strong wind sailor couldn't do that.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23685 posts
WA, 23685 posts
12 Aug 2008 8:15am
By "what we do" I mean planing.

By "what people want to see" I obviously mean in the context of racing. (IOC is not suddenly going to drop windsurfing as it stands right now and change to freestyle as it comes uder yachting and the IOC wants course racing.)
So....in the context of racing, people wanna see fast n furious action like slalom.... but there is not enough wind in many places, so that leaves Formula, RS:X or an old one design like Mistral or Windsurfer.

The average man on the street would be impressed by Formula planing rather than RS:X .... IMHO
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
12 Aug 2008 11:04am
Mark _australia said...

By "what we do" I mean planing.

Boring. Planing is what happens real early in one's career. Spectator-wise: full yawn.
Mark _australia said...
So....in the context of racing, people wanna see fast n furious action like slalom....

Fast & furious = strong winds - never guaranteed in any location.
The average man on the street would be impressed by Formula planing rather than RS:X .... IMHO

IMHO and from experience, man on the street when live in most impressed with freestyle. Rest is like painting a white wall with white paint, spectator-wise. This is not to take away from our great sport, just from a spectator point of view.
Richiefish
Richiefish
QLD
5612 posts
QLD, 5612 posts
12 Aug 2008 11:31am
when has any man on any street ever seen any freestyle windsurfing.(or slalom)??? The only place to see it is on dvd or u-tube. The only sailing I've ever seen on TV is 18 ft skiffs .
stehsegler
stehsegler
WA
3580 posts
WA, 3580 posts
12 Aug 2008 10:31am
Richiefish said...

when has any man on any street ever seen any freestyle windsurfing.(or slalom)??? The only place to see it is on dvd or u-tube. The only sailing I've ever seen on TV is 18 ft skiffs .


unless you are in Germany... the Sylt World Cup usually attracts somewhere around 150.000 spectators (last year they had 190.000). With that come loads of sponsors and TV coverage. The Sylt World Cup generally gets a 60 - 180 minute live slot on Sunday afternoon and there are plenty of news segments throughout the week.

now compare that to Olympic RS:X sailing... and you tell me what's better for this sport?
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
12 Aug 2008 12:35pm
Pierre, you may hope for freestyle to be an Olympic sport but its unlikely to happen. As Mark says, Olympic windsurfing is by an organisation that controls olympic sailing. So its pretty unlikely they will look at assessing windsurfing skills differently to other sailing classes.

Freestyle is great, especially with an old board and lighter winds. I used to enjoy doing fun things like helicopter tacks, rail rides and so forth. Where I live now I can't have a board longer than 2.5 meters I have no storage space and it has to stay in my van. As time goes on more and more people will be in a similar boat to me as more people live in units.

So for me its about getting going in lighter winds on big fat shortboards and bigger sails. Of course someone like yourself might think thats boring and for newbs, but thats what I like and I like seeing other people blasting too.

For most windsurfers its planing or complaining. There are less bruises too.


Richiefish
Richiefish
QLD
5612 posts
QLD, 5612 posts
12 Aug 2008 2:49pm
stehsegler said...

Richiefish said...

when has any man on any street ever seen any freestyle windsurfing.(or slalom)??? The only place to see it is on dvd or u-tube. The only sailing I've ever seen on TV is 18 ft skiffs .


unless you are in Germany... the Sylt World Cup usually attracts somewhere around 150.000 spectators (last year they had 190.000). With that come loads of sponsors and TV coverage. The Sylt World Cup generally gets a 60 - 180 minute live slot on Sunday afternoon and there are plenty of news segments throughout the week.

now compare that to Olympic RS:X sailing... and you tell me what's better for this sport?


wow... OK I'll amend that to "in australia"
Krusty
Krusty
NSW
441 posts
NSW, 441 posts
12 Aug 2008 3:30pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again

WINDSURFING DOES NOT BELONG IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES!

Doesn't matter if it's free style, formula, long boards or slalom. There is not one discipline which will work in the games so we might as well just get rid of it!

Australia should've had Michael Lancey as our olympic rep he would have blitzed them in the light stuff, he only weighs like 60kgs!!
da vecta
da vecta
QLD
2515 posts
QLD, 2515 posts
12 Aug 2008 4:11pm
there's only one truly great sport in the Olympics...womens beach volleyball!!
pierrec45
pierrec45
NSW
2005 posts
NSW, 2005 posts
12 Aug 2008 5:10pm
> hoping for freestyle in Olympics

Never said that, I said that it would attract more attention and crowds. Will never happen (again). (I don't care that much that it does either)

> longboard freestyle

Yes, it is the only one that would work, because of the possible range of wind. Frankly, I was thinking of any type of freestyle, i.e. Bonaire type. No, no hope of this happening.

No, I don't see why people would stop living just to watch plain planing on TV.

> when has any man on any street ever seen any freestyle windsurfing

Funny, they must have, coz at work (north america here) they all know about wavejumping at least, and many have driven by local spots and know very roughly of what I and others do and they like it. Maybe it's here. Everyone knows about looping at least. All those that have shown up for a picnic (?) here and have seen it are taken by it.

They know at least as much as they do about fencing and rowing and pentathlon.
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
12 Aug 2008 10:41pm
Mark _australia said...

It is still BS how the RS:X class even started.

The PWA sailors started Formula in 1998 ish to try and get the Olympics into planing sailing which is what 100% or windsurfers aspire to, and lets say 90% (?) of windsurfers actually achieve.

And how well has the PBA done? it's been shrinking for years. About a year ago, the world women's racing champ had to go onto the Starboard forum to ask if any other women were going to do the racing - now they've dumped it.

Not exactly a glowing success, is it?


Planing windsurfing in all conditions from 8kn to 35kn.

If the Olympics had Formula, yes they'd have to put it off some days so why not have 30 days set aside for racing not just the 16 (?) of the Games.

Because it would increase the expense dramatically. You'd have to have a spare race committee, course boats etc sitting around, day after day, waiting.

Sailing already cops criticism for being too expensive to run - having people idling around, getting paid, eating, etc while not racing will not help that.


But instead they looked for a slightly modernised version of One Design which has given us what...... expensive One Design racing.

Make it Formula and allow a few more entrants and some TV coverage will be realised.

Are you sure? I remember doing many regattas where we got nothing like the TV coverage expected, because no TV crews will sit around, twiddling their thumbs, while windsurfers wait for the winds they want.

How many other sports expect teams of professionals (the media) with massively expensive kit (choppers, boats, cameras, "talent" etc) to sit around for 7 days or more, eating, drinking, getting shuttled around, using up scant accommodation and press accreditation and hoping for wind?

What will other sports say while a bunch of people are sitting around and not filming them?

How do they run a TV schedule when they have no idea when they will get vision, and how much?


Trouble is Olympic windsurfing is so far removed from what we do, and what people want to see, that it will forever remain on the sidelines. We missed our chance big time.

Add up the people who did the Australian nationals, US nationals, German regattas, UK regattas, French regattas and you'll see that they overwhelmingly sail hybrid or longboard - NOT shortboards (apart from slalom in big events).

If we cast aside the hype, the fact is that competitive windsurfing is pretty close to Olympic competitive windsurfing. Sure, casual windsurfing is different, but casual bikeriding is differint from Olympic cycling, jogging is different from the 100m, Olympic horseriding is not like the riding most people do, etc etc etc.


PS I am not knocking the Olympic windsurfers, they are the fittest athletes out there .... they pump for hours on end. I have enormous respect for them, I just think the IOC and sailing associations need to get rid of the pipe smoking tweed jacket wearing fossils they have and replace them with some progressive thinking folk.

Rant over.


Well, that got me fired up.

I think it's complete rubbish to trot out this tired, incorrect old "fossil" crud. Yes, the YA and ISAF can be annoying, but the simple, clear, undeniable fact is that the part of sailing they are running (the boats) is doing one hell of a lot better than windsurfing.

How many windsurfer classes get about 800 sailors to RESTRICTED world championships (ie, it's not just anyone who can enter) like Lasers do? The over-35 year old's worlds got over 400 entries in FOUR DAYS last time around, before they closed the books - that's more than any windsurfer event can dream of.

How many windsurfer classes have up to 10,000 people in a single event like several yacht races (UK RTI, Barcolona etc) do?

How many windsurfer classes for kids have to restrict entry into their junior state titles, like Sabot dinghies do?

How many windusrfer classes find that there are TOO MANY highly-paid pros and have to try to keep their numbers down, like the yachties do?

How many windsurfers get to make damn fine livings, like many yachties do?

Across the full wind range, a Moth is probably quicker than a Formula board, so they've even outpaced us in speed.

Let's drop the cliches and look at reality.

The world cup is struggling, sailing is (in some places) booming. The world cup doesn't allow in the fastest-growing, biggest-selling board in the world (Kona) or the hugely successful T293 scene in Europe, or the T15 in the UK (about 800 kids racing in something run by those 'pipe smokers'. What is so bad about a bunch of people (like the UK yachties) who get over 1000 kids into competitive windsurfing?

Did you see how many kids did the Formula worlds? The numbers are a tiny fraction of those who did the 293s. Personally, I'd much rather sail Formula, but the kids have voted with their feet for T293 (a board I personally dislike).

The "tweed jacket" types do it better. Simple fact, as proven by the number of sailors their events attract.

Oh, and many of them are out there, still sailing despite the fact that some are ageing, risking danger far greater than windsurfers ever meet. And they are more responsive to the average class organiser as the International Windsurfing Association is, IMHO.
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
12 Aug 2008 10:50pm
stehsegler said...

Richiefish said...

when has any man on any street ever seen any freestyle windsurfing.(or slalom)??? The only place to see it is on dvd or u-tube. The only sailing I've ever seen on TV is 18 ft skiffs .


unless you are in Germany... the Sylt World Cup usually attracts somewhere around 150.000 spectators (last year they had 190.000). With that come loads of sponsors and TV coverage. The Sylt World Cup generally gets a 60 - 180 minute live slot on Sunday afternoon and there are plenty of news segments throughout the week.

now compare that to Olympic RS:X sailing... and you tell me what's better for this sport?


If the World Cup in Sylt (and yes, I've been there, hoping someone else using F2 gear would break a leg so I could get their space in the comp) was so good as a promotion for the sport, why is windsurfing so much smaller than sailing?

Most of the people watching at Sylt (and while this was many years ago, it was the peak year of the sport in terms of numbers) were not going to windsurf in a million years. Entertaining them did little for the sport, and the extreme image just turned other people off.

In terms of the competitive side, about 75% of competitive windsurfers in Germany are longboarders, not WC style racers (info direct to me from the guy who runs the association) so even the competitive sailors are not shifting into high-wind sailing.

I hate the RSX as a board, I dislike pumping all the way 'round the course intensely, and spent many weeks racing at World Cup/funboard style contests, so I know where my heart lies - but the head has to say that Joe Average is NOT turned on to windsurfing by world cup style action.

We have been doing that for years now, and the sport has become smaller. It simply doesn't work.
greenleader
greenleader
QLD
5283 posts
QLD, 5283 posts
12 Aug 2008 11:16pm
da vecta said...

there's only one truly great sport in the Olympics...womens beach volleyball!!


funny you should say that da vecta.

last night whilst watching "tha lympics", australia versus georgia womens beach volleyball, i thought to myself that there is actually no point in any of those "other sports".
nobody
nobody
NSW
437 posts
NSW, 437 posts
13 Aug 2008 12:49am
Chris,

You should save these responses to reduce typing in the future. No doubt the same stuff will come up again. If not here then on various other forums.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23685 posts
WA, 23685 posts
12 Aug 2008 11:26pm
All I said was that about 10 yrs ago there was an identified need by both the IOC and PWA to change what was going on at the Olympics.

In the end, what we now have is

RS:X. Basically the same speeds and same to watch is the old One Design racing. Just a lot more expensive.
Very few people will start windsurfing, invest thousands in slalom or formula gear to compete at state / national level and then a couple years later decide to invest thousands in RS:X gear in the hope of going to the olympics. . They can invest less in slalom or formula gear and still race.

I don't see why RS:X was chosen when formula had already been developed as an "all wind strength" alternative to One Design?


My analogy:

Lets pretend V8 supercar racing is still OK, but we want to reinvigorate it.
So we say: let's make a new class to replace V8 supercars.
So we test all the cars in the world and eventually decide everyone must use a Lamborghini.
We get the latest Lambo, detune it a bit so it is the same HP / speed / handling as the Commodores and Falcons we had, and make everyone use it. Now everyone pays more for something that looks and performs the same as before.
Nothing has changed really.
Except the newcomers no longer "progress" from a race Commodore (still fast) to the V8 supercar race car with the same performance, as it is a big step up and lots of $$$.

At the same time, the V8 supercar drivers invented a car that is the same price as the previous model, goes a little faster in marginal conditions and is cheaper to run and people may actually want to watch it race as it looks like what they drive.
Many poorer race drivers actually own this model as it is a natural progression from what they learned on.
But they find out they now have to buy a full on race-prepped Lambo to compete so they give up and just race their mates at the local....

Conspiracy theory: why was the IOC and international yacht racing mobs against forumula? The PWA guys saw the need a couple of years earlier, and did all the hard work for them, but the powers that be still wanted a One Design type situation.
Kickbacks?
In bed with the manufacturers?

I dunno.
Wood Duck
Wood Duck
157 posts
157 posts
13 Aug 2008 12:13am
WE..... the stupid windsurfing public kept pushing the Olympic powers to be for this stupid idea of exciting windsurfing on short boards which start working after 10 knots plus of steady wind. No wonder they are sick to death of us, I dont now why they havent kicked us out, we are the biggest, pig headed bunch of wingers on the water. If you want to be in the Olympics you have to get back to the Windsurer OD or Mistral. From 1976 till 1989 at both Windsurfer and Mistral World Championships you would get 400 sailors and you had to qualify to go. So lets all wake up.
Wet Willy
Wet Willy
TAS
2317 posts
TAS, 2317 posts
13 Aug 2008 2:18am
Perhaps windsurfing should be a part of the WINTER Olympics, but not necessaily in the same locale???

Of all the Olympic sports, this one is the most dependent on weather conditions for its very viability. If there's no snow, do they hold the ski slalom? But the Winter Olympics are always held where there's snow, so no probs.

But what if there's no wind? If racers are not planing it's rubbish to watch. Maybe it shoudn't be in the olympics, or it should be held at a more free time and location. How about locating in it Hawaii every time - so what if the organisers have to share with the USA; it would be a better event!
Wood Duck
Wood Duck
157 posts
157 posts
13 Aug 2008 12:24am
Wet Willy said...



But what if there's no wind? If racers are not planing it's rubbish to watch. Maybe it shoudn't be in the olympics, or it should be held at a more free time and location. How about locating in it Hawaii every time - so what if the organisers have to share with the USA; it would be a better event!


That why you have world championships!!!!!!!!
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