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Raceboard Settings

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Created by cammd 22 days ago, 18 Nov 2018
cammd
QLD, 1945 posts
18 Nov 2018 11:07PM
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Here's some footage of the back half of one of our club races this weekend at RQYS, I have added some text to highlight the different setting's used on Raceboards as you go around a course.

Although not the fastest board to race I think they are such an interesting class to sail, a pleasure to ride, they handle a huge range of conditions with relative ease and rarely leave you sitting on the beach due to too much wind or not enough and not as physically demanding as Formula or Slalom they accomodate a broader range of skills and fitness levels. Added to that all the tactics and strategies and techniques and friends you make they keep me interested and engaged in windsurfing always looking forward to the next race or regatta

The sailor in the video is my son, gone are the days of me beating him but that is the fate for all of us fathers of sons or daughters who windsurf.

Hope you enjoy (apologies for the speling misstakes)

boardsurfr
707 posts
18 Nov 2018 9:54PM
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Great video, thanks for sharing. I find raceboard sailing just as much fun as foiling in conditions like the video shows. The big difference is that a foil gives you very clear feedback if you're doing things right, while a longboard can be sailed with "poor" technique. Anyone can feel when a foil is coming up, and learn to control it in a few sessions (with the right gear and perhaps a few pointers). Learning how to sail a raceboard properly is much more subtle, and can be quite hard to do unless you have an expert to learn from. Once you learned it, though, the race board will be faster than a free ride foil in 10-15 knots.

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cammd said..
...gone are the days of me beating him but that is the fate for all of us fathers of sons or daughters who windsurf.

On raceboards, I'd add "wives" to your list, although I'd have to remove the "all". I count myself lucky, though, and there's still speedsurfing where all my extra weight makes it really hard for her to beat me .

jusavina
QLD, 1140 posts
19 Nov 2018 8:07AM
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Jacob has made a lot of improvement in the past few years.That is a really good sailing there.

ChrisD67
13 posts
19 Nov 2018 1:25PM
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How come racing windsurfers don't use tell tales on the sails, not even on the leech?

Imax1
VIC, 1551 posts
19 Nov 2018 6:41PM
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Very interesting.

da vecta
QLD, 2372 posts
19 Nov 2018 5:48PM
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jusavina said..
Jacob has made a lot of improvement in the past few years.That is a really good sailing there.



Yep, he's a gun. He can really put the power down when it gets windy too.

azuli
QLD, 133 posts
19 Nov 2018 7:51PM
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great video thanks Cam/Jacob...nice sailing!

maxi388
QLD, 7 posts
20 Nov 2018 11:58AM
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ChrisD67 said..
How come racing windsurfers don't use tell tales on the sails, not even on the leech?


Most of the time the settings just depend on how much power you need or how much height or depth you want. If it's planning conditions the settings also depend on how much control you need. Overall the settings of the sail just come down to feel and experimentation.

Jethrow
NSW, 683 posts
20 Nov 2018 7:46PM
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I used telltails when I was designing and building raceboard sails back in the late 80's, but it was more about understanding the flow while I was sailing alone. I never remember looking at them during a race as it was so much about feel.

clarence
TAS, 742 posts
21 Nov 2018 11:57AM
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It this hanging on the uphaul technique common or standard? I've never heard of it before.

Harness lines seem awfully close together too.

Great video to compare notes and learn something.

Clarence

ChrisD67
13 posts
21 Nov 2018 9:16AM
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maxi388 said..

ChrisD67 said..
How come racing windsurfers don't use tell tales on the sails, not even on the leech?



Most of the time the settings just depend on how much power you need or how much height or depth you want. If it's planning conditions the settings also depend on how much control you need. Overall the settings of the sail just come down to feel and experimentation.


I have only ever raced sail boats and you watch tell tails on auto pilot constantly. Interesting to see this difference, as you probably are getting better feedback via your feet than hanging fully out the side of a boat.

Sorry, I should have also commended the video in my earlier post. It is great. I have to say it got me thinking about giving racing on a windsurfer a go!

ChrisD67
13 posts
21 Nov 2018 1:02PM
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Select to expand quote
maxi388 said..

ChrisD67 said..
How come racing windsurfers don't use tell tales on the sails, not even on the leech?



Most of the time the settings just depend on how much power you need or how much height or depth you want. If it's planning conditions the settings also depend on how much control you need. Overall the settings of the sail just come down to feel and experimentation.


I have only ever raced sail boats and you watch tell tails on auto pilot constantly. Interesting to see this difference, as you probably are getting better feedback via your feet than hanging fully out the side of a boat.

Sorry, I should have also commended the video in my earlier post. It is great. I have to say it got me thinking about giving racing on a windsurfer a go!

MarcCRider
36 posts
21 Nov 2018 7:17PM
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Great video and explanations! Thanks!
Very useful for the ones that have a raceboard but usually sail alone, like myself. As said before, very enjoyable but difficult to learn (especially on one's own. I hope someday I have the time to join a fleet).
I also observe the 2nd row of back footstraps, very interesting.

Do you remember the wind range of that day, more less? It would be interesting to know, in regards on the uphaul hanging technique downwind.

Congratulations, as well. Great achievement in transmitting your passion to your son!

Cheers

Marc

cammd
QLD, 1945 posts
22 Nov 2018 7:53AM
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MarcCRider said..


Do you remember the wind range of that day, more less? It would be interesting to know, in regards on the uphaul hanging technique downwind.



1st race that day was pretty light, about 10knts but it kicked up to around 15knts for the second, it was only predicted to be light all day but we scored a bonus for the second race, the one in the video

some more footage of the two starts that day and some previous races in the below thread if any one is interested to watch

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Queensland/Racing-at-RQ?page=1

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clarence said..
It this hanging on the uphaul technique common or standard? I've never heard of it before.



Using the uphaul is pretty common, I have seen RSX, Techno, Formula and Raceboard sailors and I think Foilers use the technique as well, I think the theory behind it is to allow you to get your torso more outboard whilst keeping the rig as vertical as possible to catch the max amount of wind.

Someone may be able to correct me on that, I think the jury is out as to whether it is really an advantage or not but you know with everything if you think it helps make you faster than its probably helping even if only mentally

Imax1
VIC, 1551 posts
22 Nov 2018 8:58AM
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I have no idea what im doing and i use this technique , because it gives me a more comfortable stance in light wind when reaching or going downwind . Less contorting in my body .

azuli
QLD, 133 posts
22 Nov 2018 9:54AM
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Some examples of good raceboard technique/posture:
Keep sail as perpendicular as possible to maximise effective sail area
Keep body away from sail as much as possible to reduce turbulence ( and increase leverage as required)
body straight, hips up, shoulders back.







Chris 249
NSW, 1634 posts
22 Nov 2018 6:43PM
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ChrisD67 said..
How come racing windsurfers don't use tell tales on the sails, not even on the leech?


Some top dinghy sailors who were also into windsurfer tried it eons ago in the days of the original Windsurfers, but the lee tufts were always stalled even when the board was going at its best. Looking at the aerodynamics indicates that the fairly low aspect of the rig and the windward rake may be the issues. I tend to think the One Design sail may still be at its best when the lee flow is more stalled than in a dinghy, even one of similar dimensions like a Laser Radial.

Secondly, as others have noted you have such good feel that you don't need the visual feedback of telltales.

Imax1
VIC, 1551 posts
22 Nov 2018 7:07PM
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I've just retro fitted a larger Fanatic carbon CB into my Mistral One Design . I'm not sure why . I got it for free and I was bored . It is substantially bigger , ( at least 50 mm wider ) and half the weight . My theory is that I'm also substantially bigger so it should match . Had to move the pivot point and take other parts off and now mechanically works perfectly . It does however now stick up through the deck about 70 mm instead of 30. Will be making a new Eva cover so I don't chop my feet off while stumbling over an already cluttered deck .
Will it be better for me ?

Ps : is a RSX sail a raceboard sail , will it work better on my Mistral than a V8 9.4 ? They look similar.

pps : I know I need adjustable outhaul , looking at those guys hanging off their uphaul ropes , it seems they have negative outhaul about 5 cm , the sail is touching the boom all the way to the mast . I wonder if the battens like that when flipping the sail .?

azuli
QLD, 133 posts
22 Nov 2018 6:16PM
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The RSX sail works very well on a raceboard and can handle a large wind range.

Imax1
VIC, 1551 posts
22 Nov 2018 7:36PM
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Anyone selling a RSX or RB sail . 9.5 ?

BSN101
WA, 1414 posts
22 Nov 2018 5:19PM
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Imax1 said..
Anyone selling a RSX or RB sail . 9.5 ?


look for hen's teeth while you're at it

Imax1
VIC, 1551 posts
22 Nov 2018 8:31PM
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Select to expand quote
BSN101 said..


Imax1 said..
Anyone selling a RSX or RB sail . 9.5 ?




look for hen's teeth while you're at it


I once had a batum rooster which looked after a dozen normal chooks , he was a visious little ****er , and I'm sure he had teeth !

regal1
NSW, 63 posts
22 Nov 2018 9:16PM
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Coming from a dinghy background, I tried tell tales on a Severne raceboard sail. As soon as the sail got wet, the tell tales stuck to the monofilm like #hit to your shoes and wouldn't fly for some time. Given the sail got wet a lot and a race isn't that long (say 20 minutes) they weren't much use.
As Cammd says, the feel through your hands and feet is very direct (no tiller or mainsheet in the way) and is much more important.

boardsurfr
707 posts
22 Nov 2018 10:06PM
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Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
I've just retro fitted a larger Fanatic carbon CB into my Mistral One Design . I'm not sure why . I got it for free and I was bored . It is substantially bigger , ( at least 50 mm wider ) and half the weight . My theory is that I'm also substantially bigger so it should match . Had to move the pivot point and take other parts off and now mechanically works perfectly . It does however now stick up through the deck about 70 mm instead of 30. Will be making a new Eva cover so I don't chop my feet off while stumbling over an already cluttered deck .
Will it be better for me ?


Interesting, let us know how it works. I got the feeling that the daggerboard in the Mistral Equipe 2 rails up as well at the much wider daggerboard in the Fanatic Ultra Cat, and also gets similar upwind angles. But the ME2 has ~30 l more, which should help with upwind angles, and I never did a direct comparison. My F2 Lightning with a narrower plastic daggerboard than the Cat does not get close to the upwind angles or railing performance, but while volumes are similar the rails on the Cat are a lot fatter, and carbon vs. plastic should make a difference, too.

MarcCRider
36 posts
22 Nov 2018 10:13PM
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Select to expand quote
cammd said..

MarcCRider said..


Do you remember the wind range of that day, more less? It would be interesting to know, in regards on the uphaul hanging technique downwind.




1st race that day was pretty light, about 10knts but it kicked up to around 15knts for the second, it was only predicted to be light all day but we scored a bonus for the second race, the one in the video

some more footage of the two starts that day and some previous races in the below thread if any one is interested to watch

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Queensland/Racing-at-RQ?page=1



Great, thanks! I guess with stronger winds the uphaul hanging downwind it is not recommended

azuli
QLD, 133 posts
23 Nov 2018 6:38AM
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Select to expand quote
boardsurfr said..

Imax1 said..
I've just retro fitted a larger Fanatic carbon CB into my Mistral One Design . I'm not sure why . I got it for free and I was bored . It is substantially bigger , ( at least 50 mm wider ) and half the weight .



Interesting, let us know how it works. I got the feeling that the daggerboard in the Mistral Equipe 2 rails up as well at the much wider daggerboard in the Fanatic Ultra Cat, and also gets similar upwind angles. But the ME2 has ~30 l more, which should help with upwind angles, and I never did a direct comparison. My F2 Lightning with a narrower plastic daggerboard than the Cat does not get close to the upwind angles or railing performance, but while volumes are similar the rails on the Cat are a lot fatter, and carbon vs. plastic should make a difference, too.



At the last QLD state titles my F2 lightning WCE (which came standard with wider carbon CB) and another racer on Fanatic Mega Cat appeared to have almost the same speed and angles upwind and downwind (in 20-25kn on a lake).
Retrofitting a Mega Cat CB to a MOD will probably make it rail up much earlier than with the standard CB as wind speed increases, At that point it will need to be racked back. The Mega Cat is a wider board than the MOD so has more leverage to control the lift generated by the CB.

azuli
QLD, 133 posts
23 Nov 2018 6:44AM
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Great, thanks! I guess with stronger winds the uphaul hanging downwind it is not recommended


Can still be helpful to use downhaul downwind even as wind increases in order to sail deeper angles. upwind can be harder in rougher sea states but I find it gets easier with practice and improved core strength.

olskool
QLD, 878 posts
23 Nov 2018 8:09AM
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Imax1, ive got a 2014? 9.5 severne RB sail n severne 530 mast n bag. All in great condition. Make me an offer dude. I Use it only on lightwinds. Would rather use my 9.5 Ezzy lion. Much better tuning over 12kts. Under 12kts the RB sail has the grunt to get you going. On the centreboard thru deck, jumping around on the board in heavy winds ive managed to kick two nice semi circular pieces from the trailing edge of the CB. Exactly the same shape as my size 11 big toe.

tonymatta
QLD, 338 posts
26 Nov 2018 4:55PM
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I use leach tails on my sailboard sails. I don't look at them much when racing but I find they help me to tell if I'm oversheeting on the downwind reaches in light wind. Particularly useful on the triangle courses where you still reach even in subplaning wind. I'm not fit enough to pump onto the plane all the time and usually sail smaller 7.5 rather than 9.5 sails, so I'm often subplaning. They can also be useful when teaching less experienced people. They do seem to dry off reasonably quickly but yes, they are often wet and don't work.



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"Raceboard Settings" started by cammd