Forums > Windsurfing General

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Tuesday , 14 Nov 2017 10:13PM
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Hey Repair Crew,im back again. Always on a budget heres my latest board. Pretty gnarly catapult thump on the nose.
Fws Xcite 130. Plenty of soft area 150mm back from nose, on left side out to rail n across front edge of nose. How do i attack this? Ok forecast in 4days n i wanna hit it.







Cut out all loose n spongy stuff, feather edges. Qcell to level. Then epoxy a few layers of matting. Sand etc. Pigment in final epoxy. Is that how it goes? Then i think i will glue some eva to nose area. So I dont ding it. Hopefully!!
New to this shortboardin gig.

decrepit
WA, 7691 posts
Tuesday , 14 Nov 2017 9:18PM
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yep but don't use matting use cloth, it wraps easier and has better strength to weight ratio, matt is a cheaper way of building up thickness, as in the walls of boats.

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 1:54AM
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Hi Decrepit, errr thats what i meant. I only have cloth. No chopstrand here. Fws= full wood sandwich? Where is the wood veneer? Peeling back the layers i see coloured epoxy ,then cloth, then the blank In the nose area. I think... is the veneer just on deck n maybe planing section?

Imax1
VIC, 860 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 7:22AM
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Did u do the whoopsy ?

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 7:17AM
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1maxI, no mate. Its as i purchased it. Rest of it in great condition. Opted for the fixer upper. Like you i love to have windsurfing consume my life!!
Diy Nose protectors whats the go? Eva? Where from? Looking for blue or red to match board if possible?

Tardy
1785 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 5:51AM
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Have you heard of ..international epifill .
We have done a few noses ...my mates one is still going after 6 years ..
it a 2 pack paste ....after about 30 minutes of setting come back and wet your fingers and just smoth it off.
With water ...no need to sand later ...if you don't have to ,you can get it as smoth as.
it sets hard as a rock ..you have to use a belt sander if you use a little more harder ,it will be a easy solution .
if you didn't want to glass .and can be used the next day .

GazMan
WA, 650 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 6:47AM
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Nose cone for older JP FSW done by professional fibreglass repairer so likely nicer job than what I could manage! Thickness around 2-3mm, though impact damage was not as severe as yours looks.


olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 3:45PM
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Gazman, where did you source it? Looks pretty sweet

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 3:51PM
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Drama im having is the cream looking cloth is kevlar. Its hollow underneath. Nothing wants to cut it n it goes all fluffy. I have to remove an area about the size of my hand to get a sound surface to build on.

Mark _australia
WA, 16930 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 3:50PM
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Easiest to saw that thing off and start over with a block. Especially if hollow underneath the kevlar, sounds like somebody fkd a previous repair (fibreglass resin used instead of epoxy?))


If repairing without sawing it off and starting over- it needs a good 20cm of deck replaced in a big triangle so ideally a bit of 3mm divinycell needed, and nose/rails done.
Don't worry about kevlar, just use a faster tool (angle grinder? Dremel?) and it will fluff less. Then cut remaining fluff with brand new scalpel blade. Then glass over, so when you sand you will only hit glass.

Care required with bulk use of fillers like Epifill or lots of resin with Q-cell as it can get hot and melt the core.

I am not big on nose protectors made from EVA as you can smash the board underneath, not know about it and then get water seeping in. Less of an issue with hard protectors but they are not easy for an amateur to make well.

GazMan
WA, 650 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 3:50PM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..
Gazman, where did you source it? Looks pretty sweet


It's just layers of fibreglass cloth and resin finished with a flowcoat. Not sure what type of cloth but could ask the guy who did the work. He does general marine composite repairs.

GazMan
WA, 650 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 3:53PM
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Also see here for tips:

boardlady.com/wipeout.htm

boardlady.com/seatrendnose.htm

Imax1
VIC, 860 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 7:38PM
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Or ...if the bottom laminate is still in good nick..
U could cut down from the top towards the base removing the top and all the crap foam and bad parts. Even if it has to go all the way to the bottom.
Support the bottom so the rocker is normal.
Go to Bunnings and buy a small can of aerosol expanda foam. $ 12
Pile up the front with it,
Next day when hard shape it down .
Cover with cloth and u know the rest. It's up to u how strong u want it.

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 8:29PM
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Mark, looks like its had a ding fixed ok. Then got smacked again. 2nd repair looked to be araldite then 10mm thick silicone.Surface depresses about 3-5mm on deck area at its worst, roughly 100x50mm and 2-3mm front edge of nose about 30x10mm. The cracked line is still touching blank n sound but sunken 5mm.
Underside in good true condition. Qcell should do the trick?? Can i inject epoxy resin under floating kevlar areas then build up the remaining hollows?

Mark _australia
WA, 16930 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 8:07PM
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Ahhh ok
styro is buggered and they just sealed the crack. Thus the softness

Really needs a proper fix with expanding foam, divinycell and glass over. But for an easy one that acceptable, without having to buy pour foam and divinycell:
I'd remove at least say 50mm x 200mm along that longitudinal crack then fill with slow resin and q-cell to get the styro fixed up and level.
Then glass over, lack of divnycell will not be a major issue as you have made the styro more solid.
Then do the rail cracks by grinding out and filling them glass over. Sand back and fair it all with resin and q-cell

But again, caution with filling big voids it may get hot. I'd not inject under laminate, seen too many disasters....

GazMan
WA, 650 posts
Wednesday , 15 Nov 2017 10:55PM
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Re nose impacts and damage, as they say 'an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure', so shown below is my way of protecting my boards from a fragile nose coming off second best when hammered by a hard mast. Lesson learnt!!!

Modified Chinook mast base pad turned upside down and velcro'd to bottom of boom cutout. Initial testing saw the pad slide up the mast at times, so a length of shock cord with a plastic olive cleat to secure pad lower down (to sail or mast base) worked a treat to stop the pad from sliding up.

Obviously the positioning of the boom cutout on any sail will decide whether a nose protector like this will actually work as the boom cutouts on my sails are all (luckily) on the low side!









olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Thursday , 16 Nov 2017 4:50AM
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Cool Gazman, rummaged thru my ol collection n found a 90s Wild Winds mast protector.... Just living up to my avatar. OLSKOOL
Thanks mate

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Thursday , 16 Nov 2017 5:09AM
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Angle grinder wise. Use a sanding disc? A mate reckons to sand thru the kevlar. Seems like more work /time/ mess. Or 1mm cutoff disc to cut thru dodgy kevlar? Then peel it away. Then rebuild with Qcell.

Mark _australia
WA, 16930 posts
Thursday , 16 Nov 2017 7:03AM
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I meant sanding disc as you want to feather the edges in to get a nice glass job

It is going to take a lot of time and make mess. If you want to sail it in a couple days time, don't hurry you will regret it later.. Lots of duct tape to keep the water out and go use it. Then read all of the boardlady site (ignore all the vac bagging references, not applicable to yours) and fix the board when you have, aww I reckon a week to 10 days for that job.

grich62
QLD, 395 posts
Thursday , 16 Nov 2017 4:01PM
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hey andrew check out the video on your 9.5 lion site of my excite ride i made those nose protectors out of exercise mats cut to shape then sanded for looks used some super strength spray adhesive to keep in place ,i doubled it up at the nose , i also did this to my supper sport, no body in this country spends more time being catapulted than me and not a ding to show for my constant nose trashing absolutely bullet and idiot proof .easy to remove the glue with petrol if you want to remove them

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Thursday , 16 Nov 2017 10:46PM
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Nice work there Grich62.
Heres a few pics of the mess so far. Stage 1.
Used 1mm cut off disc to quickly remove the major damage. Then tapered edges using disc sander. Tried to keep as much artwork as possible.
Qcell time.
Rough sand 2moro. Then more Qcell to level.


olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Friday , 17 Nov 2017 7:43PM
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Heres the Qcell finished. How many layers of cloth???? Ive got 6oz n 2oz cloth. Any suggestions? Maybe 2x 6oz n 1x2oz? Will 6oz wrap around the nose curves easily??? Hoping to sail this board by Monday arvo. Help!!!!


decrepit
WA, 7691 posts
Friday , 17 Nov 2017 6:54PM
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2x6oz should be OK, the conform-ability depend on the weave, surfboard cloths are fairly open weave and conform well. Other tight weave cloths aren't as good. The trick is to cut a "v" shape out of the rail. With 2 layers stagger the cuts.

Mark _australia
WA, 16930 posts
Friday , 17 Nov 2017 8:54PM
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^^agreed.

but forget trying to save the paint, you will need to sand about 6-10" long to get the lines right. I reckon for most repairs I paint 3x the size of the repair.


R1DER
WA, 978 posts
Saturday , 18 Nov 2017 7:23AM
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When I make a board under the pvc I have 2 X 4oz over the pvc I have 2x4oz from the bottom that laps up and over to the deck. Then on the deck in the nose area I have 4 X 4oz glass plus 3x6oz carbon. I also replace the pvc in the nose and tail with resin impregnated corematt. It all adds maybe an extra 100gms. I can hit the nose with a metal hammer it chips the paint and that's it.

decrepit
WA, 7691 posts
Saturday , 18 Nov 2017 6:04PM
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Select to expand quote
R1DER said..
Then on the deck in the nose area I have 4 X 4oz glass plus 3x6oz carbon. I also replace the pvc in the nose and tail with resin impregnated corematt. It all adds maybe an extra 100gms. I can hit the nose with a metal hammer it chips the paint and that's it.


Wow, that sounds indestructible, great idea. I've recently done a nose repair and used coremat, probably should have used the extra glass as well.

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Sunday , 19 Nov 2017 5:47AM
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R1der, thats a great idea. But i have nothing but usual 6oz n 2oz cloth. Nothing techo. But many layers are what i had planned.
A few more Qs.
1.when using Qcell to make a paste like consistency, should i use a touch more hardener?? (4:1resin) Seems to be slightly soft/ flexible when cured...
2. Gazmans nose cone, i think id like to do something similar. How do i cover the whole nose in resin and get a good finish coat ?? Do i hang board up by tail so drips will come from nose maybe from 1 point only? My guess itd be less sanding to get finished product looking good???
Thanks guys!

Imax1
VIC, 860 posts
Sunday , 19 Nov 2017 8:58AM
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Whatever u do don't change the resin ratio , it has to be exact.

olskool
QLD, 351 posts
Sunday , 19 Nov 2017 10:24AM
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Select to expand quote
Imax1 said..
Whatever u do don't change the resin ratio , it has to be exact.


Some of the built up Qcell is slightly rubbery ( for the want of a better word) when sanding. I may be rushing it??? Up until 10pm filling then up again at 4am to sand n fill again. Chucked a large 2oz layer down over nose first, then 2x 6oz wrapped over n under nose. Sand again tonight n repeat. Making it a raised nose protector style.

decrepit
WA, 7691 posts
Sunday , 19 Nov 2017 8:53AM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..


Imax1 said..
Whatever u do don't change the resin ratio , it has to be exact.




Some of the built up Qcell is slightly rubbery ( for the want of a better word) when sanding. I may be rushing it??? Up until 10pm filling then up again at 4am to sand n fill again. Chucked a large 2oz layer down over nose first, then 2x 6oz wrapped over n under nose. Sand again tonight n repeat. Making it a raised nose protector style.



Rubbery resin (after it's had sufficient time to cure) is a sign of incorrect ratio. Either too little or too much hardener. As Imax says it's important to get the ratio exact, and fully mix it. Check whether the ratio is volume or weight, with some systems there's a big difference, and you have to use the specified method. Unless you know the densities and can adjust the ratio to suit.

Also make sure the resin is thoroughly mixed before adding the q-cell

Mark _australia
WA, 16930 posts
Sunday , 19 Nov 2017 10:08AM
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I think you are too fast too. 6hrs is nowhere near enough time...... you might get away with it if using a fast hardener or a surfboard lam epoxy designed to allow fast turnaround AND just rough sanding with 40 or 60 grit but they are all maybes...... plus anything that sets that fast may melt styro if used in large qty's.
Thats why I said this is a week long job.

With normal resin and qcell I would not look at sanding that for 12hrs (presuming you have a warm environment up there )

You still could have had insufficient hardener.

Given you are rushing as you want to use it, and it should be waterproof now, go stick it in the sun for a day and leave it. Go sail it ugly, then finish all the fairing and paint in a no wind week. Then if it still is not sanding quite right, at least you know it was resin ratio not lack of cure time.







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"Repair Time" started by olskool