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Steps to learn a planing Gybe

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Created by sarwind 5 months ago, 11 Sep 2023
Paducah
2439 posts
10 Oct 2023 12:29PM
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remery said..
Sometimes there is so little apparent wind mid-gybe that the sail won't flip easily by itself. Give it a push with your back hand to speed things up.


Even better, push with the back hand and pull with the front hand. Done right, you can spin the sail and just catch it on the other side. Just don't miss the boom, though, or you'll grasp air and fall backwards in the water.

aeroegnr
1447 posts
2 Nov 2023 8:03PM
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Went out yesterday, only had about an hour of good wind after work before someone shut off the wind machine.

6.7 Blade and the 145 Blast.

Had a spot where the wind was funneling and strongest near the shore, but there was also a lot of chop/windswell. It was probably only 1-2ft or so but with a very short period. I was able to find the time between swells so that it helped a bit during the jibe.

Concentrated hard on staying sheeted in and getting weight well forward during the jibe, switching feet aggressively and earlier. I also tried to get my new rear foot more forward, or as forward as I could get it during the switch. Something is still not quite right near the flip but I felt the sensation of the board staying playing much further in, and still planing on my new side before I lost it on the flip. I think I am still unsettling the board quite a bit during the step change but the plane didn't drop until I flipped.

I think I could probably still get a bit more speed on a larger radius turn in flatter water, but that felt soo achingly close. I don't think I've kept it going that far, especially in such choppy conditions.

Chris 249
NSW, 3205 posts
4 Nov 2023 9:18PM
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MarkSSC said..

Something else the other seem to have missed is that to successfully carve gybe and maintain speed through the turn, you need to avoid putting too much weight on the back foot in your endeavours to turn the board from there. Too much weight down the back end will wash off lots of speed and often lead to falling in. Obviously, you don't want all your weight forward, but it is the front section of the rail that should drive the carve. Keep the speed up, it is your friend.


This!

For some reason people lean back in a gybe. The best gybes are done when leaning forward.

Another very common error is to let the rig hang away in front of you when flipping the sail. If you are having trouble then try pulling the mast to windward as it flips so it almost hits your nose. Then when you grab the boom on the new side, you sheet on by letting your front hand straighten and the rig pivots around your back hand into the sailing position. That is much quicker and easier than getting the whole rig at arms length and then struggling to pull your back hand to sheet on while you lose speed.

Also don't gybe in a gust to make it easy - gybe when coming out of a gust. That way when you head downwind your apparent windspeed is lower. If you're doing 20 knots in a gust and turn downwind into a 15 knot wind then there's very little wind when you are trying to sheet in.

Pcdefender
WA, 749 posts
5 Nov 2023 12:41AM
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When taking your backfoot out place it as far forward as possible on the rail.

I like to touch the front footstep with the inside of my foot as a minimum.

What this does is i think it helps to add mast foot pressure.

Your weight is now more towards the nose of the board which is beneficial in not stalling the board.

Another tip is work hard both rails HARD by maintaining pressure to increase the angle of the board.

Gybing the board flat is ok in flat water but useless in choppy water.

Gybing is the hardest but possibly the most fun part of windsurfing.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7898 posts
5 Nov 2023 8:19AM
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Chris 249 said..

MarkSSC said..

Something else the other seem to have missed is that to successfully carve gybe and maintain speed through the turn, you need to avoid putting too much weight on the back foot in your endeavours to turn the board from there. Too much weight down the back end will wash off lots of speed and often lead to falling in. Obviously, you don't want all your weight forward, but it is the front section of the rail that should drive the carve. Keep the speed up, it is your friend.



This!

For some reason people lean back in a gybe. The best gybes are done when leaning forward.

Another very common error is to let the rig hang away in front of you when flipping the sail. If you are having trouble then try pulling the mast to windward as it flips so it almost hits your nose. Then when you grab the boom on the new side, you sheet on by letting your front hand straighten and the rig pivots around your back hand into the sailing position. That is much quicker and easier than getting the whole rig at arms length and then struggling to pull your back hand to sheet on while you lose speed.

Also don't gybe in a gust to make it easy - gybe when coming out of a gust. That way when you head downwind your apparent windspeed is lower. If you're doing 20 knots in a gust and turn downwind into a 15 knot wind then there's very little wind when you are trying to sheet in.


Good tips. What do you mean by letting the rig pivot around your rear hand after the flip?

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
5 Nov 2023 9:17AM
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Chris 249 said..
If you are having trouble then try pulling the mast to windward as it flips so it almost hits your nose. Then when you grab the boom on the new side, you sheet on by letting your front hand straighten and the rig pivots around your back hand into the sailing position.

gybe when coming out of a gust. That way when you head downwind your apparent windspeed is lower. If you're doing 20 knots in a gust and turn downwind into a 15 knot wind then there's very little wind when you are trying to sheet in.

I'm right at the point where i needed to hear this i think. I can understand the rig flipping part, letting the sail swing off the back hand.
I can understand the advanced wind reading part, but it still seems like black arts, to read it that well.

Yes, for some reason i still lean back too.

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
5 Nov 2023 9:43AM
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Pcdefender said..
When taking your backfoot out place it as far forward as possible on the rail.
Gybing is the hardest but possibly the most fun part of windsurfing.

Watching camera clue mount footage i can see my best gybes are when foot goes more forward, there is alot more room to put it further still.

I like your claim about it being the hardest and possibly most fun.
I can see it being more fun than a double forward loop. For me atleast, because my spot is flat-water. And i'm happy about that.

remery
WA, 1730 posts
5 Nov 2023 11:15AM
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After the flip, if the mast is behind you so that you have to pull it back up. This is likely because you flipped too late, the board has slowed, the apparent wind gone.

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
5 Nov 2023 4:28PM
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Yep, I am familiar with that happening.
I am having a few lately where I think 'oh, I am half way through here, I could probably step and flip about now', but I hesitate, thinking if it goes wrong it will be ugly'.
Choosing to stay dray perhaps.

The few I've got happened without thinking about it.
All the advice was washing around in my head somewhere, but without thinking - my mind has skipped the possibility of the ugly crash part and carried me around the turn I reckon. Woohoo

remery
WA, 1730 posts
5 Nov 2023 8:01PM
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The answers you seek are at about 14:00.

Pcdefender
WA, 749 posts
5 Nov 2023 10:02PM
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A Fox 105, a 5.2 or 5.8 Severne Motto 2 cam and your gybes WILL be better.

Or at least SHOULD be better.

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
10 Nov 2023 12:01PM
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Speaking of steps, I tried the flip first as demonstrated by sailquick above. Looks like many of the fast guys do it this way? It was interesting on 92cm wide SLW. I made a few attempts, each time felt super wacky and the old Windward side of board stayed down in the water as it went around to become leeward rail.

I feel like I am right on the cusp of getting planing step gybes more than not (I am aware that this cusp might last a long time), but rather than keep pushing to nail the step gybe at this stage and have to unlearn that, (*if I am indeed about to learn that)and get wet for awhile practising the strap to strap. Sailquick: I want to do what you do!

aeroegnr
1447 posts
10 Nov 2023 9:31AM
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I'm curious about the conditions for a strap jibe like that on fin too because most of my experience is in a foil for those. For example: 4.4-5.0 sail and foiling in 20kts when the foil is only doing 10-15kts in the jibe. The sail easily spins downwind as long as you keep carving because there's always apparent wind behind you. Vs jibing in like 10-12kts on a race foil and big 9.0 where it's easy to get backwinded so you step jibe and are careful with sheeting to stay flying and flip.

With fins and strap jibes seems like you'd need a lot of base wind but who knows I'm still a fin jibe struggler.

powersloshin
NSW, 1645 posts
10 Nov 2023 7:57PM
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after foiling for a while I could not jibe with the fin, I forgot how much more forward you need to keep your body and step forward as soon as you flick. With foiling you try and keep the board flying and it requires your weight further back, then you go strap to strap.
With the fin you can go strap to strap only if you got a lot of speed and power

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
10 Nov 2023 11:07PM
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Yes it seems speed and power would help alot for strap to strap.

There are a few beginner attempts at it here, one at 3.40 shows it going wrong pretty well i think..

?si=T6doTKYYVcmXOVYF

boardsurfr
WA, 2171 posts
11 Nov 2023 2:15AM
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aeroegnr said..
I'm curious about the conditions for a strap jibe like that on fin too because most of my experience is in a foil for those. For example: 4.4-5.0 sail and foiling in 20kts when the foil is only doing 10-15kts in the jibe. The sail easily spins downwind as long as you keep carving because there's always apparent wind behind you. Vs jibing in like 10-12kts on a race foil and big 9.0 where it's easy to get backwinded so you step jibe and are careful with sheeting to stay flying and flip.

With fins and strap jibes seems like you'd need a lot of base wind but who knows I'm still a fin jibe struggler.


It's all about your speed relative to the wind speed, and how much speed you loose in the turn. Low board speed, high wind speed, limited speed loss all make sail-first (strap-to-strap) jibes easier. The first place I remember seeing the strap-to-strap jibe a lot was Maui: 30 knot winds, slow wave boards, plenty of swell to help you keep speed in a turn. I sometimes like doing sail-first jibes on flat water when I'm on my lazy (freestyle) gear and got plenty of wind. But sail first jibes are a pretty poor choice if your on gear that lets you go as fast as or faster than the wind. That includes fast foils in light wind, slalom gear, and big fin boards in lighter wind.

The sail rotation requires that you get quite a bit of apparent wind from behind, so you need to be slower than the true wind. The bigger the difference, the faster the sail will rotate, and the faster you get power back in your hands. You can actively make the sail go around faster, but that's a bit more advanced. A smaller sail is easier to rotate neutrally, and won't pull you off balance, like a larger sail may do if you don't level the clew (or do a "boom Shaka") before the rotation.

So basically, play with the sail-first jibe on the fin when you are nicely powered on your small (4.4-5.0) sails. On larger sails, stick to the step jibe.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7898 posts
11 Nov 2023 1:11PM
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MobZ said..
Speaking of steps, I tried the flip first as demonstrated by sailquick above. Looks like many of the fast guys do it this way? It was interesting on 92cm wide SLW. I made a few attempts, each time felt super wacky and the old Windward side of board stayed down in the water as it went around to become leeward rail.

I feel like I am right on the cusp of getting planing step gybes more than not (I am aware that this cusp might last a long time), but rather than keep pushing to nail the step gybe at this stage and have to unlearn that, (*if I am indeed about to learn that)and get wet for awhile practising the strap to strap. Sailquick: I want to do what you do!


Strap to strap is better for well powered gybes on little gear.
Step gybes are way better with big kit. You end up in a much more stable position ready to hold the power.

Grantmac
1940 posts
12 Nov 2023 7:33PM
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A duck gybe is a nice way of flipping very early and going directly into the other strap.

Otherwise strap to strap for me takes either a very efficient medium board on dead flat water, or proper waves.

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
12 Nov 2023 10:46PM
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ahha. Lots of comments with good info for me at my stage, thanks.
I'll come back to playing with strap to strap later with more speed and smaller board.

yeah duck gybe!. I was told that no way will they be happening with 8.5 sail. I actually did one. It was sweet and effortless. But a fluke i think. I tried many. Nose of board not happy.

Roar
NSW, 471 posts
13 Nov 2023 3:43PM
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Strap to strap gybes are great in well powered conditions
The hardes part is commiting at the start :)
You have to do these 3 things simultaneously (which feel really counter intuitive at first)
1. You have to pull back foot out and step forward hard onto the other foot strap pad
2. Lean forward / let the mast pull you forward almost like a cata pult
3 push mast forward and down while sheeting in back hand

Once you get these in sync you wil be looking for bigger gusts to initiate the turn as the sail feels almost weighless and you can slide foot into the strap and load you weight onto this foot - EASY !

Here is one of the best once i managed to catch on video

Windxtasy
WA, 4013 posts
13 Nov 2023 1:34PM
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I probably qualify as the person who took the longest to learn to gybe, because I started trying to teach myself and got into bad habits and sustained a number of injuries which then made me afraid to try. For years I went without completing a single gybe, consequently my tacking is not too bad.
Tip #1 get good instruction from the beginning
I am not not very coordinated and I can't learn much by watching others
Tip #2 practice the rig flip and the foot work on dry land on a low wind day until it is automatic
Tip #3 flat water will make it easier to nail gybes in flat water but you will not learn to really bend the knees until you have to gybe in chop
Tip #4 try for a non stop hour. That way you will be forced to do a lot of gybes in a short space of time - really reinforces the muscle memory
Tip # 5 practice gybing on consecutive days if you can, to reinforce the muscle memory
Tip #6 steady wind helps a lot.
Tip # 7 don't give up. It may take years of practice especially if you can't sail regularly. If I can do it anyone can
Tip # 8 sail during the off season if you can so your gybing doesn't go backwards too much. Then you will start ahead of where you were at the same time the previous year.
Tip#9 learn the words of my song "50 ways to Stuff an Alpha" then you will know all the things NOT to do.
I need to find someone to sing the song first...
Any musicians in Perth interested?

Paducah
2439 posts
14 Nov 2023 12:51AM
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MobZ said..
...yeah duck gybe!. I was told that no way will they be happening with 8.5 sail. I actually did one. It was sweet and effortless. But a fluke i think. I tried many. Nose of board not happy.


I remember watching Dorian van Rijsselberghe pull these off on his RSX in the Olympics with a 9.5 (probably to try to keep planing in lighter winds). Impressive. Tall and long arms really helps, though. (Sad, little T-Rex noises from me.)

at 12:31 - he kinda messed this one up

MobZ
NSW, 217 posts
14 Nov 2023 8:48AM
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Roar - your vid is set to private, cant see it.

Windxtasy - good points. Can't wait to hear that song.

Paducah - the one duck i did with 8.5 was on my RSone board. Keen to get it out and see how it feels again. Awesome board.
It is my Cadillac. I learnt for three seasons on it.
No duck in this vid, but that's my big board. I think it was good board to learn a lot of things. Three seasons on that, now 34 sessions on SLW this season, and god damn it, in about 1hrs time I'm going to be nailing step gybes on the SLW.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7898 posts
14 Nov 2023 11:23AM
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Windxtasy said..
I probably qualify as the person who took the longest to learn to gybe, because I started trying to teach myself and got into bad habits and sustained a number of injuries which then made me afraid to try. For years I went without completing a single gybe, consequently my tacking is not too bad.
Tip #1 get good instruction from the beginning
I am not not very coordinated and I can't learn much by watching others
Tip #2 practice the rig flip and the foot work on dry land on a low wind day until it is automatic
Tip #3 flat water will make it easier to nail gybes in flat water but you will not learn to really bend the knees until you have to gybe in chop
Tip #4 try for a non stop hour. That way you will be forced to do a lot of gybes in a short space of time - really reinforces the muscle memory
Tip # 5 practice gybing on consecutive days if you can, to reinforce the muscle memory
Tip #6 steady wind helps a lot.
Tip # 7 don't give up. It may take years of practice especially if you can't sail regularly. If I can do it anyone can
Tip # 8 sail during the off season if you can so your gybing doesn't go backwards too much. Then you will start ahead of where you were at the same time the previous year.
Tip#9 learn the words of my song "50 ways to Stuff an Alpha" then you will know all the things NOT to do.
I need to find someone to sing the song first...
Any musicians in Perth interested?


Your lucky. Atm I can't gybe very well and I can't tack so I don't have any other option.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7898 posts
14 Nov 2023 11:25AM
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Ps I've seen the words to Windxtasys 50 ways to stuff an alpha and they are great. We need someone to sing it.

Maddlad
WA, 825 posts
14 Nov 2023 8:31AM
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If you're having trouble with your gybes and you live in WA, come sailing with us and we will help you learn to carve gybe.

John340
QLD, 3030 posts
14 Nov 2023 2:24PM
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sboardcrazy said..
Ps I've seen the words to Windxtasys 50 ways to stuff an alpha and they are great. We need someone to sing it.



Rather than focusing on the 50 things to stuff up a gybe, focus on the simple things that succeed
- get good speed into the turn
- sheet in with back hand into the turn
- straight front arm and lean forward into the turn
- look where you want to go
- bends zee knees
- start the rig flip early (before you dead down wind)
- switch feet after rig flip
- steer with back leg on a board reach until hooked in, feet in the straps and accelerate before heading back up to 90 deg reach
- practice of the above makes perfect

Windxtasy
WA, 4013 posts
14 Nov 2023 1:10PM
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John340 said..

sboardcrazy said..
Ps I've seen the words to Windxtasys 50 ways to stuff an alpha and they are great. We need someone to sing it.




Rather than focusing on the 50 things to stuff up a gybe, focus on the simple things that succeed
- get good speed into the turn
- sheet in with back hand into the turn
- straight front arm and lean forward into the turn
- look where you want to go
- bends zee knees
- start the rig flip early (before you dead down wind)
- switch feet after rig flip
- steer with back leg on a board reach until hooked in, feet in the straps and accelerate before heading back up to 90 deg reach
- practice of the above makes perfect


The song is a parody of "50 Ways to Lose Your Lover" by Paul Simon A humourous look at the mistakes most of us have made along the way to learning gybes, plus a few extras to make up the 50.
The last verse tells how to do it right

Jacko51
SA, 217 posts
14 Nov 2023 7:35PM
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Search "Albany Arcade Masters Nov 3 4 - YouTube " some great shots how it's done correctly

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7898 posts
15 Nov 2023 8:13AM
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John340 said..

sboardcrazy said..
Ps I've seen the words to Windxtasys 50 ways to stuff an alpha and they are great. We need someone to sing it.




Rather than focusing on the 50 things to stuff up a gybe, focus on the simple things that succeed
- get good speed into the turn
- sheet in with back hand into the turn
- straight front arm and lean forward into the turn
- look where you want to go
- bends zee knees
- start the rig flip early (before you dead down wind)
- switch feet after rig flip
- steer with back leg on a board reach until hooked in, feet in the straps and accelerate before heading back up to 90 deg reach
- practice of the above makes perfect


Strap to strap style. Some good tips.



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"Steps to learn a planing Gybe" started by sarwind