Forums > Windsurfing General

The Decline of Sailboarding and Expensive Equipment

Reply
Created by gollyone A week ago, 8 Sep 2019
gollyone
VIC, 14 posts
8 Sep 2019 10:27AM
Thumbs Up

This second hand boom is currently for sale at $898 A boom makes the least impact on a sailboarding rig. Little wonder the sport is in decline given the prohibitive prices being charged for new and second hand sailboarding gear. New sailboards (just the board) can retail for up to $3000 or more and sometimes you do not even get fins or foot straps! How can any one who is without a high paying job or wealthy parents afford to get into the sport? Manufacturers and retailers have to get real about their pricing strategies if the sport is to grow and prosper.

Imax1
VIC, 2161 posts
8 Sep 2019 10:59AM
Thumbs Up

Second hand stuff can be cheap .
I think you should be able to get a perfectly good board and a couple sails and rig for under $1500.00
That should get you started .

Rob11
212 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:16AM
Thumbs Up

May be worth looking at entry level gear not top end carbon boom to start with.

Also I beg to differ a carbon boom makes a hell of a difference to how the rig feels and believe it or not to your wallet in the long term... But most do not seem the bigger picture.

On another topic, you're probably knee deep in the artificial inflation and price hike by buying everyday items (coffee, milk etc) and real estate... The great Aussie dream!

LeeD
654 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:38AM
Thumbs Up

1985 Gaastra Speed Slalom 3 cam 5.2 retailed for $500.

Subsonic
WA, 1760 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:41AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Rob11 said..
May be worth looking at entry level gear not top end carbon boom to start with.

Also I beg to differ a carbon boom makes a hell of a difference to how the rig feels and believe it or not to your wallet in the long term... But most do not seem the bigger picture.

On another topic, you're probably knee deep in the artificial inflation and price hike by buying everyday items (coffee, milk etc) and real estate... The great Aussie dream!


This exactly. ^^^

its a carbon boom (a near new one by the looks) which will see you not having to buy a new one for many years to come. If you want you can buy an ally boom new for a third of the price, but with less of an expected life span. You can buy a 2nd hand ally boom for less again if you're just starting out.

$3000 for a new board will buy you a top end model, carbon construction etc. Plenty of boards available for a lot less than that new.

You can look at the top end gear and say its too expensive, but you're skipping the fact that there's a thriving 2nd hand market, catering for a wide range of budgets, and most shops (in WA at least) will generally cut you a really good deal if you're buying the pricey items off them.

gollyone
VIC, 14 posts
8 Sep 2019 11:42AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Rob11 said..
May be worth looking at entry level gear not top end carbon boom to start with.

Also I beg to differ a carbon boom makes a hell of a difference to how the rig feels and believe it or not to your wallet in the long term... But most do not seem the bigger picture.

On another topic, you're probably knee deep in the artificial inflation and price hike by buying everyday items (coffee, milk etc) and real estate... The great Aussie dream!


I've got a lot of gear - mostly Neil Pryde stuff - booms, masts, sails, universals - the boom doesn't seem to make that much difference to the rig. Carbon is marginally lighter but the extra cost can not be justified IMO. How does a high end, expensive boom make a big difference to your rig set up?... Just curious because I've just discovered the big positive difference marrying the same brand masts with the same brand sails.

seanhogan
3075 posts
8 Sep 2019 10:05AM
Thumbs Up

makes a difference when you start swimming after the alloy boom failure 3 km out at sea

Subsonic
WA, 1760 posts
8 Sep 2019 10:06AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
gollyone said..

Rob11 said..
May be worth looking at entry level gear not top end carbon boom to start with.

Also I beg to differ a carbon boom makes a hell of a difference to how the rig feels and believe it or not to your wallet in the long term... But most do not seem the bigger picture.

On another topic, you're probably knee deep in the artificial inflation and price hike by buying everyday items (coffee, milk etc) and real estate... The great Aussie dream!



I've got a lot of gear - mostly Neil Pryde stuff - booms, masts, sails, universals - the boom doesn't seem to make that much difference to the rig. Carbon is marginally lighter but the extra cost can not be justified IMO. How does a high end, expensive boom make a big difference to your rig set up?... Just curious because I've just discovered the big positive difference marrying the same brand masts with the same brand sails.


Stiffness, weight and longevity is what you gain from buying a carbon boom.

you have to make the switch one way or the other to feel what the extra stiffness does for you. But its worth buying carbon for longevity alone.

JakeNN
63 posts
8 Sep 2019 11:10AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
gollyone said..
A boom makes the least impact on a sailboarding rig.

A carbon boom makes an amazing difference to a sailbording rig.

If you're a beginner and on a budget, then buy used aluminium boom.

tomp
NSW, 640 posts
8 Sep 2019 1:31PM
Thumbs Up

I think the thread got a bit diverted to carbon boom discussion but as an example SUP can be quite expensive to start with as well although it's a big market now.

Foiling - now that's an expensive start up.

Mark _australia
WA, 19467 posts
8 Sep 2019 11:51AM
Thumbs Up

Gollyone- think about how much difference 1-2cm of outhaul tuning makes
or a gusty wind compared to a nice constant one.

Boom flex changes the outhaul setting on-off-on-off as you sail along. It gives you the 'wrong' outhaul in gusts. Just your body hanging offit and bouncing over chop will make the sail flex due to boom movement. Not drastic but you can feel it for sure.
A stiffer boom just feels nice. Lighter swing weight makes a massive difference with very long boom lengths (anything over about 7m I reckon ally just gets really bad)
Lighter weight helps a lot for freestyle and wave tricks too

Yes not as big a difference as the right mast curve as that can make it all borderline unusable. But assuming all your equip is relatively modern and setup right, a carbon boom is probably the first 'upgrade' after getting all matching sails n masts

Subsonic
WA, 1760 posts
8 Sep 2019 12:01PM
Thumbs Up

I think to a degree what makes windsurfing "expensive" is that you're buying all of the components as separate items, as opposed to say cycling where you walk into a shop and buy a bike, walk out and ride away.

If you wanted to put your own bike together with all the topline gear, you'd be baulking at the price of it all just as much as what you do with windsurfing gear. Even more so.

I think that is what is actually missing from windsurfing really. You can't just walk into a shop and buy a set up as standard anymore.

Belly25
NSW, 93 posts
8 Sep 2019 3:48PM
Thumbs Up

Like most recreational sports I believe the cost to an individual to go windsurfing varies massively depending on what level they want to participate at. If you want cutting edge equipment to chase 1 extra knot of speed or be competitive at high level racing you'll be paying big bucks to do so.
If you are patient and happy just to be out there with your mates windsurfing can be very cheap (relative to other sports).
My 2 favourite boards (and most used boards), Naish Hybrid 110 & 90, $250 and $350, both in mint condition and with good bags. I recently upgraded to quality Ezzy sails (Cheetahs) & masts (Hookipa) , all second hand. Took a while to accumulate them but now have 3 Cheetahs with matching masts for less then $1500. Best bargain was 2 top of the line carbon Streamlined booms, $150 each.
If you are patient and don't need to have, or want to be seen with the latest gear, then I reckon windsurfing is very inexpensive compared to other water sports, especially when you consider how much fun it is. The cost is all up front as well. The other consideration is frequency of sailing. In summer I average 3+ sessions every week. Costs me nothing but a bit diesel.

Oh yer, carbon boom makes a huge difference IMO. Has anyone ever gone back to alloy after using a good carbon boom?

firiebob
WA, 2891 posts
8 Sep 2019 2:41PM
Thumbs Up

Personally in the last few years I have given away a perfect 7.8 slalom sail, an Ezzy 460 rdm, a delta weed fin, sold a 5.8 slalom sail for $100 that was as new and only used a few times but no one wanted a sail a few years old, and sold a CA board cheap. I had a large board given to me to use with my foil and also I bought a as new Gladiator freeride for $200 to bash over chop slapping, again no one wanted it but it's a ripper board plus I got a brand new Chinook carbon boom for under a grand retail.
As for booms, at 183cm and 85kg I couldn't get an alloy boom to last longer than 10 months slalom sailing open ocean, the new carbon boom replaced my 10+ year old carbon boom which did break after going A up, so even though not cheap they are.

Plus here in the WA forum section I have seen some very good gear go for free, there's a lot of generous people in this sport.

I do think there is too much marketing BS, you read it here on how good the graphics or cut outs are on the latest year boards, ffs nothing wrong with good cheap s/h gear, it'll go just as fast, high and far as the new stuff, pilot dependent

Rob11
212 posts
8 Sep 2019 2:46PM
Thumbs Up

Of course cost has gone up over the years but what hasn't? It is all relative, so more info is needed before claiming windsurfing is more expensive.

Unfortunately it appears you have one of the most expensive brands one can buy. Heaps more brands are available, more durable, equal performance and way cheaper.

Tardy
3089 posts
8 Sep 2019 3:14PM
Thumbs Up

your right BUYING a carbon booms hurts ...i busted 3 alloys before buying my first carbon boom ,but 10 years later i still have it ,but replaced it this year ..
So i would of busted 3 alloys in 10 years at 300 each ,so its worth it ,also i don't wash my gear ,and alloy corrodes ,plus you get more direct feed
out of a carbon boom ,and more power out of your sail ,so think of it as a investment ...

I seem to buy secondhand boards these days ,a few years old for $1000 -1500 is cheap

my surfing buddies do 2 boards a year ,sometimes 3 ,at 750-1000$ each ,windsurfing is ok .
sometimes i thing windsurfers are like Lamborgini Owners ,they take pride in their gear and its their pride and joy to own
such nice gear.

i have a uncle who worked his arse off and spent bugger all ,now he's very rich ,but he's now too old to enjoy it ,live for the day
and forget about tomorrow ...

kato
VIC, 2539 posts
8 Sep 2019 5:22PM
Thumbs Up

What's a house in Sydney/Melbourne cost . Still using a 2009 board that's still straight and quick. $3K at $300 per year ..Cheap fun I recon

515
281 posts
8 Sep 2019 4:00PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Tardy said..
your right BUYING a carbon booms hurts ...i busted 3 alloys before buying my first carbon boom ,but 10 years later i still have it ,but replaced it this year ..
So i would of busted 3 alloys in 10 years at 300 each ,so its worth it ,also i don't wash my gear ,and alloy corrodes ,plus you get more direct feed
out of a carbon boom ,and more power out of your sail ,so think of it as a investment ...

I seem to buy secondhand boards these days ,a few years old for $1000 -1500 is cheap

my surfing buddies do 2 boards a year ,sometimes 3 ,at 750-1000$ each ,windsurfing is ok .
sometimes i thing windsurfers are like Lamborgini Owners ,they take pride in their gear and its their pride and joy to own
such nice gear.

i have a uncle who worked his arse off and spent bugger all ,now he's very rich ,but he's now too old to enjoy it ,live for the day
and forget about tomorrow ...


That is a classic with the uncle.
Live life

gavnwend
NSW, 1026 posts
8 Sep 2019 6:31PM
Thumbs Up

Windsurfing is not that of a expensive sport.A average person could buy a complete kit for under $1500.that would be basic gear,but it gets you out in the water.As for the sport being on the decline l agree.The last 2 or 3 years has been massive,in the way of foiling,windwings & foil sup.l think when all the hype & the challenge of trying something new,your average joe or jill will fall back into the real world of windsurfing.

Imax1
VIC, 2161 posts
8 Sep 2019 7:00PM
Thumbs Up



After over a 25 year break , just for giggles I bought a fifty dollar complete dunger and replaced the uni joint , ( the only rule no 1 ) , and it was fantastic and sunny . Even though I was older and unfit by a long shot it was one of my best sails ever . In five knots . I remember the glistening sun on the water , the birds , the boats and the people on the beach .I even remember the song on the radio as I was driving home
You can still get a old Wally complete for $50 .

snorkel692
QLD, 247 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:21PM
Thumbs Up

There a a lot of bargains and even giveaways out there. Shop close out gear can be inexpensive and just a year or two " out of date". I think in the heyday of the sport second hand prices were relatively higher given the huge demand, but that has changed big time. Plus I remember buying a sail in 1988 for over $600 so a lot of prices have increased way less than inflation. There are some areas that prices have gone up a lot - carbon booms and some fins as examples - but these are things that have brought huge performance gains.

Then again the mid 80s brisbane price wars used to create prices like a Bombora tri fin ( second) fully rigged for $575 new ( I think that was about the nadir)...yep things are more expensive than that,but what performance differences! My 2c- closeouts and second hand gear are pretty accessible price wise and new gear is better value for money than " the good old days".

Chris 249
NSW, 1822 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:35PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
Gollyone- think about how much difference 1-2cm of outhaul tuning makes
or a gusty wind compared to a nice constant one.

Boom flex changes the outhaul setting on-off-on-off as you sail along. It gives you the 'wrong' outhaul in gusts. Just your body hanging offit and bouncing over chop will make the sail flex due to boom movement. Not drastic but you can feel it for sure.
A stiffer boom just feels nice. Lighter swing weight makes a massive difference with very long boom lengths (anything over about 7m I reckon ally just gets really bad)
Lighter weight helps a lot for freestyle and wave tricks too

Yes not as big a difference as the right mast curve as that can make it all borderline unusable. But assuming all your equip is relatively modern and setup right, a carbon boom is probably the first 'upgrade' after getting all matching sails n masts



I dunno, Mark, how can a wrong mast curve make a sail "borderline unusable"?? I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference; apart from windsurfing I also do boat sailing where we can adjust mast bend gust by gust, so I'm very well aware of the effect of bend. I spend far too much time 50ft in the air with spanners tweaking yacht stays to ignore the effect of bend.

But when we are saying that the wrong mast bend makes a sail "almost unusable" it may be an example of why the sport is quite costly. Perhaps we are often too picky about our gear; perhaps we are not willing to just accept that it doesn't have to be the best that can be created and yet the sport can still be fun. Maybe we're too worried about the hardware and not enough about just working on technique and having a good time rather than looking for problems with our kit.

Look at it this way; in a big blow in a championship racing fleet, sometimes the top six or so will get around without even looking like falling, while half of the fleet of 40 may be unable to even make it to the finish - even when everyone is on the same gear or pretty much the same gear. The average sailor will probably be one of the people who cannot finish while the top guys (and we are talking amateurs here in Oz) will be sailing with their hair dry. You can give a good sailor a crappy old board, a mis-matched mast and sail that may seem "almost unusable", and they will finish 4th out of 40+ when 20 retire. So in the overall package of getting around a course (just to use this example) the gear itself is not really a big issue for the average sailor - their problem is themselves and not whether their sail is "almost unusable".

Maybe if we worried more about sailing and less about the ultimate performance of our gear, the sport would be doing better.

Chris 249
NSW, 1822 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:37PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
firiebob said..

I do think there is too much marketing BS, you read it here on how good the graphics or cut outs are on the latest year boards, ffs nothing wrong with good cheap s/h gear, it'll go just as fast, high and far as the new stuff, pilot dependent


Well said.

Imax1
VIC, 2161 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:50PM
Thumbs Up

Back to the original post , of being too expensive to get into, I would disagree.
Most of us could put a beginners package together and give it away for free , just to get an enquasitiiv a go.
Being perfect training gear or old Wally doesn't matter .
If someone can go out and return not that far downwind , he , she , could be hooked .
It's not so much about the gear as it is the teacher and conditions .

Mark _australia
WA, 19467 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:33PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Chris 249 said..

I dunno, Mark, how can a wrong mast curve make a sail "borderline unusable"?? I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference; apart from windsurfing I also do boat sailing where we can adjust mast bend gust by gust, so I'm very well aware of the effect of bend. I spend far too much time 50ft in the air with spanners tweaking yacht stays to ignore the effect of bend.

But when we are saying that the wrong mast bend makes a sail "almost unusable" it may be an example of why the sport is quite costly. Perhaps we are often too picky about our gear; perhaps we are not willing to just accept that it doesn't have to be the best that can be created and yet the sport can still be fun. Maybe we're too worried about the hardware and not enough about just working on technique and having a good time rather than looking for problems with our kit.

Look at it this way; in a big blow in a championship racing fleet, sometimes the top six or so will get around without even looking like falling, while half of the fleet of 40 may be unable to even make it to the finish - even when everyone is on the same gear or pretty much the same gear. The average sailor will probably be one of the people who cannot finish while the top guys (and we are talking amateurs here in Oz) will be sailing with their hair dry. You can give a good sailor a crappy old board, a mis-matched mast and sail that may seem "almost unusable", and they will finish 4th out of 40+ when 20 retire. So in the overall package of getting around a course (just to use this example) the gear itself is not really a big issue for the average sailor - their problem is themselves and not whether their sail is "almost unusable".

Maybe if we worried more about sailing and less about the ultimate performance of our gear, the sport would be doing better.



OK maybe not for a beginner but stick a NP wave mast in a Gaastra wave sail from a few years back when they were realllly different ends of the spectrum and try using it. If yiu were an intermediate it would really hold u back.

Now do the same with their race sails- busted cams, won't rotate, can't even get some cams on when rigging ..... a noob would quit the sport.

So yes, at the opposite ends of the spectrum - borderline unusable.
Most CC masts in most CC sails - fine. But to clarify I was talking about realllyy wrong not just "wrong"

For many people "wrong" according to the marketing catalogue is just fine.But only in no-cam and only in a certain range of 'wrong'







Mark _australia
WA, 19467 posts
8 Sep 2019 9:37PM
Thumbs Up

As to expensive - yeah I can't get a taker for a $1300 carbon boom at $400 with a free fast modern no cam freeride sail thrown in.
l've refurbished boards that are as good as new - literally- and can't sell them

The world champs could ride 2012 gear and still kick all our arses but you NEEED a 2020 board...?

OTOH I am looking for broken SUP paddles to help out noobs and kids - no offers.


LeeD
654 posts
9 Sep 2019 5:03AM
Thumbs Up

1987 Robbie N on 1987 gear outstrips ANY of us on 2019 gear.

Sea Lotus
27 posts
9 Sep 2019 6:40AM
Thumbs Up

If you compare the "price range" of new or used equipment 20-30 years ago and now, now its significantly more expensive, not to mention the larger "price range". But as Rob11 mentioned, everything got more expensive, on the other hand incomes olso gone higher (most countries).
Opposite, life standards gone higher but people opt to get oled tvs, macbooks and german cars, more alternatives to spend their money on.

Main reason of decline might be diversion. There were not many alternatives back then, and now there are, kite board being the main diversion from windsurfing, plus many more other extreme sports people can chose to commit, which were not widely available back then. Most alternatives are easier and cheaper to start, even motorsports.

But i olso agree high prices have an effect as well, indirect though. New and expensive equipment look cooler, so gets more attention from kids :)

P.C_simpson
WA, 1392 posts
9 Sep 2019 9:01AM
Thumbs Up

I could feel summer in the air and here is the first complaint for the season in how expensive our sport is,

When you pick the most expensive used enigma boom i have ever seen, and then use it for the basis for a rant about how expensive stuff is isn't a good start, i picked up one the same used for $400, and this is the second one i have, well worth the money even at the full new retail price they are worth the money, I have had my first one for about 8 years.

Also have you priced other sports? i also ride Dirt bikes and a new one of those is now around $14,000, and i also ride mountain bikes, for a new one of those that will hold up to a decent amount of riding you are going to pay $3000 for a bottom of the range bike right up to well over $10,000

If you want the best pay the price or just buy used 5 year old gear. as the saying goes, you only get what you pay for.

Mark _australia
WA, 19467 posts
9 Sep 2019 11:49AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
LeeD said..
1987 Robbie N on 1987 gear outstrips ANY of us on 2019 gear.



More rubbish Lee. Nobody broke 40kn until 1988.
In 1987 the record was still Pascal Maka at about 39.something knots which he did in 1986.

People do 40 all the time now.

One legend right here on seabreeze has done 40 on a waveboard.


Yes I get what you're saying but you took it a bit far......

Harrow
NSW, 2746 posts
9 Sep 2019 1:55PM
Thumbs Up

I spent about $10K in 2004 to get back into the sport, and haven't had to spend anything since. Not bad. Very happy with my Tabou 105 rocket, JP 78 FSW, 3x100% carbon masts and 5 sail quiver. It's all 15 years old now, but I wouldn't say it's out of date at all for my recreational bay blasting.

If you're on a budget, you could easily get on the water with some pretty good stuff only a few years old for $1K - $2K.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"The Decline of Sailboarding and Expensive Equipment" started by gollyone