windsurfing with a dodgy knee

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-Stevo-
-Stevo-
WA
57 posts
WA, 57 posts
7 Jan 2008 4:36pm
Ok so about 6 months ago I busted my knee snowboarding in Queenstown...
tore and strained some ligaments doing stupid spinning-twisty-in-the-air type tricks and was out of windsurfing for quite a while...

finally went back out on the river a month ago for the first time since easter and tweaked my knee through a really tight gybe in some moderate chop... ended up in a whole world of pain yet again and set myself back another couple of months... so now im always in the gym trying to strengthen the surrounding muscles as much as possible.

who here has had a knee injury and how has it affected your sailing? what do you do to minimise it? I hear that taping it up properly (which is what I do for hockey now) is probably the preferred option over something like a knee brace

monster
monster
TAS
495 posts
TAS, 495 posts
7 Jan 2008 7:43pm
i tore my knee, i wore a knee brace for three months , it cept pressure of the knee while sailing , it rusted tho
easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
7 Jan 2008 7:59pm
I've had 3 knee ops over the years, all for cartliage removal, and each time the docs and physios have said to do heaps of bike riding, as it's the best thing ever for knees. (pushbike, that is)
patsken
patsken
WA
717 posts
WA, 717 posts
7 Jan 2008 6:12pm
there is an orthopaedic shop about 4 units up from Windsurfing Perth in Myaree that will sell you some pretty good braces that have plenty of support and not too much that will rust -- ali, plastic, velcro, wetty material etc. Mine was about $90 and after using it for 2 years constantly ( sailing that is ) and occasionaly in the third year I still reckon if I needed it would still work -- nice and light too.

Good thing for peace of mind while sailing,.....
-Stevo-
-Stevo-
WA
57 posts
WA, 57 posts
7 Jan 2008 10:42pm
easty said...

I've had 3 knee ops over the years, all for cartliage removal, and each time the docs and physios have said to do heaps of bike riding, as it's the best thing ever for knees. (pushbike, that is)


ahh damn... and here i was getting all excited looking out at my kawasaki sitting in the garage thinking that I now had a valid excuse to go take it for a thrash

yeah ive been riding to the gym (bout 15km away) and back, as well as doing lots of weighted squats and all the other exercises... and im seeing a huge improvement in strength and support for the knee..

looks like a knee brace is the way to go...
Glassbottom
Glassbottom
WA
27 posts
WA, 27 posts
7 Jan 2008 11:26pm
Dude, you should be careful; getting back into it too early might be doing permanent damage. A good knee injury takes a year to heal. You might get a sail now, but could be crippling yourself permanently later on. Big loads like knee squats could be the absolute worst thing to do - it's not a muscle problem - loading the ligs will just redamage them and the cartilidge too. Light repetitions on a bike are the go, not strength.

(I've done all my ligs snowboarding, and cycling has saved my knees)

Reckon you should gets yourself to the physio and get proper advice, and listen to the man. Better a season off, than a knee replacement and a lifetime on the beach taking pics thinking of old times. Lionel Lim is a good specialist at the Ashton Medical Centre.
Greenroom
Greenroom
WA
7608 posts
WA, 7608 posts
8 Jan 2008 12:49am
I did my knee in windsurfing and all I did was see a physio who ended up being a fellow surfer/windsurfer and knew exactly what I needed to do. I saw him for one 20min sesh each week for about 6 weeks and he gave me orthotics which straightened my knee out. Everything has been sweet since and I was almost heading down the road for a knee recon if I continued to keep trashing my knee windsurfing. It got to the point where I couldnt kneel down or even climb a ladder or stairs. Very painful. Ironiclly I was out windsurfing the other week and hurt my knee once again and I thought damn Im gonna have to see my physio again and who should I bump into in the carpark?... My physio! He suggested a remedy and off I went
I was told it will never go away but you can manage it and prevent it from getting worse
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
8 Jan 2008 4:58pm
There's at least 2 guys who always sail with a knee brace on Botany Bay. I guess they must do something!
graceman
graceman
WA
323 posts
WA, 323 posts
8 Jan 2008 3:35pm
OK Hockey damage, playing on Astroturf is a killer
3 x Knee recons over th last 12 years.
And 3 x 50k servcies (That's what I call them, clean and scrape)
Still playing competitive hockey in vets.
I don't wear knee braces and have no end of fun on the windsurfers, including speed runs.
Get the best advice from a godd physio and then get confidence, I felt really bad first time back and had to take it easy to get my confidence up on a board, different muscles and strains.
This is a time and build situation.
If you can't run without pain don't windsurf.
hardie
hardie
WA
4133 posts
WA, 4133 posts
8 Jan 2008 3:48pm
Not sure this will work with your issue but nutritional supplements haven't been mentioned, I've got dodgy knees and the only way I reckon I've been able to do sports fornthe last coupla yeas is taking MSM, Glucosamine, and Chondroiton food supplement, I notice the diffrence if I don't take it??
easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
8 Jan 2008 5:50pm
hardie said...

Not sure this will work with your issue but nutritional supplements haven't been mentioned, I've got dodgy knees and the only way I reckon I've been able to do sports fornthe last coupla yeas is taking MSM, Glucosamine, and Chondroiton food supplement, I notice the diffrence if I don't take it??



I hear beer is a nutritional supplement.
hardie
hardie
WA
4133 posts
WA, 4133 posts
8 Jan 2008 5:12pm
....... and bourbon
Wineman
Wineman
NSW
1412 posts
NSW, 1412 posts
8 Jan 2008 7:34pm
hardie said...

Not sure this will work with your issue but nutritional supplements haven't been mentioned, I've got dodgy knees and the only way I reckon I've been able to do sports fornthe last coupla yeas is taking MSM, Glucosamine, and Chondroiton food supplement, I notice the diffrence if I don't take it??



BUT..make sure the critical ingredient is "glucosamine hydrochlorine" along with the chondroitin
check the label
Arlo
Arlo
SA
139 posts
SA, 139 posts
8 Jan 2008 7:59pm
I had a knee op a few years ago, nothing as major as the other guys; if i sail in a wetsuit I am fine, but if I sail in boardies my knee aches after 20 mins or so, so I wear a neoprene knee support. I assume it is just a strength thing for me so I should probably do a bit more cycling. I would also agree with Hardie; I started taking Glucosamine and definitely notice the difference if I stop taking it.
Tonto
Tonto
SA
58 posts
SA, 58 posts
8 Jan 2008 11:05pm
How much/often do you guys find you need to take Glucosamine to notice an improvement ?
Brien
Brien
NSW
172 posts
NSW, 172 posts
9 Jan 2008 1:28am
See a good physio and don't re-injure your knee while it is still healing.

I badly injured my knee about 14 years ago whilst skateboarding. I just lay on my back until I could walk again and was back sailing about 10 days later. I spent a year continually re-injuring it through a variety of ways. As a result I have suffered with knee pain ever since.

I finally saw a phsio recently and after being shown how to tape it and some basic excercises my knee now feels better at 34 years of age than it did at 24 years of age.
graceman
graceman
WA
323 posts
WA, 323 posts
9 Jan 2008 8:58am
My surgeon and my physio both suggested that I use the Glucosamine+Chondroitin+Fish Oil.
It takes around 4 weeks before you see any real changes and they are subtle.
I swear by it now.
After taking it for 4-5 years, and after one of my 50K servcies my surgeon noticed the difference in my cartlidge (We have video of before and after) and the general condition of my knee, much improved he even suggested that some of my cartlidge had grown back which is possible.
They both warned me that for 20% people this does not work.
I would highly recommedn giving it a try.
ka43
ka43
NSW
3105 posts
NSW, 3105 posts
9 Jan 2008 11:59am
Had knee recon many years ago. Kept playing footy, surfing and skating.
Both knees have had 50k service and I used to have trouble just kneeling.
I have been taking Glucosimine for approx 6 months and the difference has been great.
Lots more flexibility on the water and they are not as sore after a sail as they used to be. Just try and think before you do the simple things. A good example is getting out of your car. Dont swing one leg out and pivot, this is a great way to tweak your knee. Just little things like that.
Most of the guys I sail with use Gluco, I reckon it took about 6-8 weeks for it to have some advantage.
Susie
Susie
SA
837 posts
SA, 837 posts
9 Jan 2008 1:13pm
Had a full knee reconstruction (acl) about 7 years ago, took me a year to get back on the water, lots of hard work to get there. Now its fine unless I DONT windsurf or swim or walk in thigh deep water, that keeps it strong. If I am lazy or busy it starts aching. Skiing all winter was a good test , it was absolutely fine, same thing it only ached if I didn't ski. And I had one really big stack - got whiplash and it was fine. Walked up two different mountains in ski boots, carrying skis and skied off piste knee deep powder - it was fine.
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
9 Jan 2008 4:06pm
Susie said...

Had a full knee reconstruction (acl) about 7 years ago, took me a year to get back on the water, lots of hard work to get there. Now its fine unless I DONT windsurf or swim or walk in thigh deep water, that keeps it strong. If I am lazy or busy it starts aching. Skiing all winter was a good test , it was absolutely fine, same thing it only ached if I didn't ski. And I had one really big stack - got whiplash and it was fine. Walked up two different mountains in ski boots, carrying skis and skied off piste knee deep powder - it was fine.


Can we have a photo of that knee?
Susie
Susie
SA
837 posts
SA, 837 posts
10 Jan 2008 12:18pm
lol.
DAM71
DAM71
QLD
498 posts
QLD, 498 posts
10 Jan 2008 6:41pm
Just read this post - so i hope this information does not come too late. Firstly thanks to all the people who are talking up their physio's, as a member of the profession it's great to hear good outcomes.

1. Knee braces - It really depends on what your injury is, and i would not feel comfortable reccomending any product without further info. Keep in mind they will not mix well with salt water too well and you will be replacing it.

2. Tape - don't bother. Very wery hard to tape your own knee, and can be expensive.

3. Nutrient - Glucosamine hydrochloride + chondroitin is a good base mix, +/- add in such as MSM, vitamin C, calcium, manganese, and fish oil. Good for knees that have pain associated with 'old age and rust' mild degenerative change or thinning of cartilage. Will not work for everyone, but for those it does it really is a new lease on life so to speak. Trial it for 6 weeks if you have not had any improvements then not likely to be of any benefit. About 1000 mg glucosamine and 400mg chondroitin per day. Just note you need to have cartilage left for this to work - it acts to re-hydrate the cartilage thus improving the joint function.

4. Exercise - good quads mean good knees. Squats and lunges, cycling and balance drills are essential in healthy function of the knees recovering from injury.

This is about as much as i can suggest without further info. Hope it helps. But definately see your physio or get the name of a good one.


easty
easty
TAS
2213 posts
TAS, 2213 posts
10 Jan 2008 7:54pm
Crikey, a truely professional post on seabreeze - that's gotta be a first.
I might give the nutrients a go, had never heard of them before this thread. I reckon if I have any more cartilage removed there wont be any left.
patsken
patsken
WA
717 posts
WA, 717 posts
10 Jan 2008 8:40pm
Try the supps but don't be surprised if they don't work....

I tried them for 12 months ( got a good deal on e-bay ) but couldn't feel any difference. Apparently it does depend on how much the cartlidge has degenerated or worn...
-Stevo-
-Stevo-
WA
57 posts
WA, 57 posts
10 Jan 2008 11:52pm
Yeah so obviously the first thing I did was see a physio... luckily for me New Zealand has free medical cover for all tourists, so I hit the physio twice a day for the remaining four days I had... however they were fairly young and not so cluey about setting up a decent recovery plan.... although my one didnt look half bad

so yeah saw a good local physio... as soon as I got home (this is like 6 months ago) and then discussed a variety of stuff to do...

basically anything to build up your quads is good... especially the bulgy part just to the inside (VMO?)... mainly because your muscles support your knees and are really important...well...for supporting your knee, and easing the load on ligaments etc etc

the reason I need to do a lot of quad work is because over the years ive favoured my good knee (the left one) and the right quad is actually considerably smaller...its really scary to look in the mirror and notice it aha....
This combined with the VERY tired quads from snowboarding for 5 days straight and just generally being extreme caused the lack of support and the twisting-popping-pain that followed what would nomally be an ordinary and embarassing stack...

In my opinion if you NEED a knee brace to keep going, then you shouldnt be out there... my knee was getting quite close to good condition and felt great until the very end of the day when I was tired... lesson learnt...
sit this summer season out :(
see how it goes in hockey for winter (i was back and playing 1st division with maybe 90% mobility at the end of last season)

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