GPS Team Challenge Rules Finalised 27/4

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hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

20 Apr 2007 4:44pm

Ok we need to work out the following:

Please I need your input here!!

Conditions of Entry:

I think I will need everyone to sign a document saying they understand the rsiks of windurfing and will not make any claims for damages against the organisers.

Rules:

No limit to number of members per team.
No limit to teams per state.
The competition is teams vs teams based.
To qualify for a team session at least two team members must have sailed that day and recorded results. Individual results will not be counted towards a team session.
Sessions will be defined as windsurfing sessions by team members on the same date, location can be diferent for different team members.
There will be 5 measurement categories. 2 sec peak; 5 x 10sec average; 1 hour; Alpha Racing; Nautical Mile.

Teams that don't supply a session score/time/result for a category in any month will be awarded the maximum points

Measurement Definitions:

Each session to be recorded, will be the average score of the team for each category.
Average being the sum total divided by number of team members participating on that day.

Measurement Method:

Sessions for the teams will be submitted by the team captain.
The Team Captain will collate team sessions and select the best team session for each month.
Session results will be supplied monthly.
These sessions will be collated each month on a spreadsheet, and a score awarded in each category from lowest to highest.
eg. if there are 15 teams in a given category that have submitted a time these will be awarded points according to rank ordering. from a 1 for best time/speed, to 15 for worst. This is done in each category, with the team having the lowest points for the month, being the leading team for the month.

Scoring/Results:
Results will be posted on the internet each month. (A month is enough of a period to give hopefully some suitable condions, and one session per category per month is a way of avoiding data overload)Winning team/s each month can have bragging rights for that month.
Verification of results, needs to be possible, therefore each team members session results needs to be available for scrutiny. (This may be requested at random, or all results need to be posted on GPSSS, and possibly a small donation made to GPSSS as a way of acknowledging the efforts of that website)
Monthly scores are summed (added) for the number of months the competition runs.
The team that has the lowest score in each category over the period on the challenge is proclaimed the winner and awarded the trophy. If only one trophy is to be awarded it goes to the team with the lowest aggregate score across all categories for the period of the challenge.

Duration of competition:

First results for the month of May need to be submitted to the Challenge Secreatry by the 31st of May. (This may not work as 31 May might be a great sailing day) or within 7 days.

The competition runs till 31/12/07.

This is just for starters, what are your ideas and I will fill it out as we go!

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

20 Apr 2007 4:47pm

How do we protect ourselves from Insurance claims if someone injures themselves and wants to sue?

nebbian

6277 posts

nebbian

WA, 6277 posts

20 Apr 2007 5:05pm

A spreadsheet might not be the best way to do this, if you get a good database set up with some decent PHP behind it, then everything can be done automatically, which means more chance of everything actually happening.

I'm happy to donate some web space and code up the database/PHP for this.

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

20 Apr 2007 5:10pm

quote:
Originally posted by nebbian

A spreadsheet might not be the best way to do this, if you get a good database set up with some decent PHP behind it, then everything can be done automatically, which means more chance of everything actually happening.

I'm happy to donate some web space and code up the database/PHP for this.

That would be much appreciated, do you need to be compensated in any way?

nebbian

6277 posts

nebbian

WA, 6277 posts

20 Apr 2007 5:26pm

Nah mate, glad to give my company some exposure

elmo

8894 posts

elmo

WA, 8894 posts

20 Apr 2007 5:36pm

Good man Nebs

that would be vastly superior to my daggy excel spreadsheet

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

20 Apr 2007 6:05pm

Going to set some Deadlines here so we don't go on for ever.

Rules input by Friday 27 April 2007, then finalised.

Might need a rule for disputes, how are these normally handled?

Thinking of Starting the Registration Process by Sat 28th of April 2006. Do we have a deadline here, or allow teams to join later? Should we cut-off team registration by 31st of May 2007, so each teaM WILL have to have registered/submitted session results by that date to be in?

kato

VIC

3530 posts

kato

VIC, 3530 posts

20 Apr 2007 8:45pm

Hardie ,any thoughts on running a nautical mile section ? It might lessen the Sandy Point domance.

mineral1

4564 posts

mineral1

WA, 4564 posts

20 Apr 2007 8:54pm

Need a rule for teams that don't supply a session score/time/result for a month and how we deal with this?

Because I will probably be the first one to moune this up, is it really a rule we need? (now don't all shoot me, just asking)If you don't post each month, no bother I would have thought. Just narrows the field down a tad for that time frame.

Mineral

PS only reason I am asking cos it was in red and I haven't yet worked the rest of the rules out. (Dyslexic prick)

sailquik

VIC

6171 posts

sailquik

VIC, 6171 posts

21 Apr 2007 2:53pm

quote:
Originally posted by kato

Hardie ,any thoughts on running a nautical mile section ? It might lessen the Sandy Point domance.

I was thinking the same thing Kato. We would have to sail offshore or brave the killer shallows up the back of the inlet in a NorWester. Anyhow, I don't expect to dazzle as my PB for NM is Wayyyy down the GPS-SS list. 'Corse, there is always that mythical spot in westernport......

slowboat

560 posts

slowboat

WA, 560 posts

21 Apr 2007 2:26pm

daffy- you know you guys have a killer NM run in a NWer... we were robbed of the opportunity to test it proper when the front came over a few minutes early last year.

slowboat

560 posts

slowboat

WA, 560 posts

21 Apr 2007 2:34pm

so Hardie, you might as well send all those trophy's to sailquik. All they need is one day of sailing each month- doesn't matter what wind direction, and the times should top the best outright for anywhere else in Oz. But, you never know... they might not get any wind (?!!!).

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

21 Apr 2007 2:40pm

quote:
Originally posted by slowboat

so Hardie, you might as well send all those trophy's to sailquik. All they need is one day of sailing each month- doesn't matter what wind direction, and the times should top the best outright for anywhere else in Oz. But, you never know... they might not get any wind (?!!!).

I was wondering whether there should only be one trophy, given to the team with lowest points across every category, accumulated over 8 months of sessions, So it's a points system now not outright speed.

2 sec Max
5 x 10 sec
1 hour
NM
Alpha

One entry each month across all categories sothat will be 8 x 5 points categories, so that is 40 entries, and some months some people won't get a chance, or won't enter in a category which automatically gives them maximum points. So not so easy really, consistency across all caetgories.

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

21 Apr 2007 2:43pm

Plus if we get sponsors we might get a trophy for each category, If not I will donate a trophy for the overall winner, lowest points across all categories, for 8 months.

PS Slowboat to China, are you gonna enter a team, or are you going to make me beg you to

sailquik

VIC

6171 posts

sailquik

VIC, 6171 posts

21 Apr 2007 5:07pm

Keep the trophies. Personal satisfaction is enough.
Not much wind here for the next few months normally.
Slowboat, you forget that when the snow is on the hills my windsurfing gear stays pretty dry. Too cold for an old bloke.That reminds me, gotta get a new wetsuit and some good booties...........

sonic

QLD

756 posts

sonic

QLD, 756 posts

21 Apr 2007 8:37pm

Yes sound like its on track!

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

15 May 2007 9:51pm

i was hoping to get sorted what can and can't be deleted in the tracks.

seems that by doing this lots of things can occur.

this will obviously affect max speeds, 1hr speeds etc.

it is very easy to tell what has been deleted cause the track times don't remain continuous?

any thoughts from the brains trust?

cheers

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

16 May 2007 7:43am

quote:
Originally posted by Gestalt

i was hoping to get sorted what can and can't be deleted in the tracks.

seems that by doing this lots of things can occur.

this will obviously affect max speeds, 1hr speeds etc.

it is very easy to tell what has been deleted cause the track times don't remain continuous?

any thoughts from the brains trust?

cheers

Not sure what you mean, Ben is working on the data management side of it, not sure what you mean from a rules perspective though?

Haggar

QLD

1670 posts

Haggar

QLD, 1670 posts

16 May 2007 10:29am

Every one should keep their raw files and provide if results are questionable. Also the team captain or nominated team member can validate the results with 2 programs. I always process my file with both Realspeed and GPSAR. If you get GPSAR set up correctly, I only ever have to delete several spikes, and I find the results between both programs to be very good.

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

16 May 2007 1:52pm

hi guys,

i'm not referring to data mangement from the website etc.

i was getting at the user end.

there should be a blanet rule that all tracks remain untouched. deleting information out of the gpx file to the newbies will result in incorrect data.

the good thing with realspeed and why i use it is because it removes spikes and ignores invalids.

where as using gpsar the user needs to remove the spikes manually or the software won't record the correct max speeds and averages.

JayBee

NSW

714 posts

JayBee

NSW, 714 posts

16 May 2007 3:20pm

Deleting readings from tracks in GPSAR should only ever result in lower averages because GPSAR is a time based system. I cannot see how anyone can artifically increase their speeds by removing any readings. And it is very difficult to add high readings :-).

I do agree that everyone should keep their tracks in an untouched format. I copy them, and delete spikes from the copy before analysis, ensuring I have the original should there be a query.

I dont see any issue with removing data in GPSAR, after all that is what RealSpeed does behind the scenes (ignores suspect data? Mal)

The rules already say that the files have to be available for scruitiny, so perhaps we just need an easy to follow manual on how to find/remove spikes in GPSAR.

JB

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

16 May 2007 4:39pm

yeah agree jaybee.

in my previous post i meant if the user doesn't remove the spikes correctly the software won't give the correct results. not to mean the software isn't correct with it's outputs.

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

16 May 2007 2:49pm

OK I need a technical decision from an adviser, I'll ask sailquik as he has lots of experience.

elmo

8894 posts

elmo

WA, 8894 posts

16 May 2007 3:10pm

The best bet regarding data management is to do the same as what the GPS Speedsurfing site requests.

You must always keep an unedited download(original) of your data, and have another file which you can edit, it means saving the file twice under 2 different names.

Each file should have the date in the name, this is how I have my naming format set up

AV 2007 05 16 Raw.GPX
AV 2007 05 16 Edit.GPX

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

16 May 2007 3:11pm

quote:
Originally posted by elmo

The best bet regarding data management is to do the same as what the GPS Speedsurfing site requests.

You must always keep an unedited download(original) of your data, and have another file which you can edit, it means saving the file twice under 2 different names.

Each file should have the date in the name, this is how I have my naming format set up

AV 2007 05 16 Raw.GPX
AV 2007 05 16 Edit.GPX

That sounds good to me. I Have asked sailquik to respond, if he can confirm this, then we will update rules. Ta guys!!!

sailquik

VIC

6171 posts

sailquik

VIC, 6171 posts

16 May 2007 5:41pm

Elmo said it as I would. Keep the original unedited trackfile. Save a copy and edit that for your results in GPSAR.

If an event organiser asks for your file for checking he will want the original (unedited) file.

When using RealSpeed it is not nessasary to alter the file an any way. The software can make points invalid if they are outside the parameters but does not alter the file or delete points. If you intend to delete trackpoints when using RealSpeed you should save the edited file under a different name.

Gestalt

QLD

14968 posts

Gestalt

QLD, 14968 posts

17 May 2007 7:55pm

cool sounds good.

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