A few recent events have occurred which means it’s time for a discussion about the gps team challenge (GTC) and it’s future directions. It seems that we have really hit on a formula, that is proving very successful and popular, and more people want in!!! Ben and I have been approached with a number of sponsorship offers lately, and we have also been approached by someone stating that some high profile OS windsurfers (who have asked for anonymity) are wanting to join the challenge.

Sponsorship issues first. Most of the sponsorship offers we can’t accept because they would conflict with our present sponsors, which is a shame. Sponsorship loyalty is important, and we need to honour that. I also think that the initial sponsors who believed in the Challenge from the beginning, also need to be shown loyalty. What we do about this in the future?, I’m not sure, though let’s ask the question, is there a way that in the future present sponsors can be honored, and the challenge be opened to multiple sponsors? Can this sort of thing work, and how would it work?

Second issue: International teams? = NZ have approached us to join a team, and this was discussed previously, and most agreed it would be OK. They are in discussions, but apparently all depressed because of little wind over their summer.

We have also recently been approached by another international team who want to be entered into the challenge, this team would have some high profile international windsurfers (also open to ozzies), so the question is, do we want this? Will this affect our enjoyment in any way, or does it alter the nature of the challenge in a way that would detract from it? Do the international riders have to join an existing team, rather than entering their own team?? What do people think/want??

Third issue: Windsurfing Politics!: = I think this issue cannot be ignored. I think something has to be done about linking with the state windsurfing organizations, so that we all mutually benefit each other. Our philosophy is basically that Windsurfing itself benefits, and that we as windsurfers get to enjoy our sport more together socially!! I think a link up with the state organizations fits with this philosophy.

GPS windsurfing. I think we need to recognize and respect “GPS-ss” as they are trying to become the world body that represents gps windsurfing, so I would encourage all serious gps windsurfers to use that site to record individual their efforts. Ben and I have been in contact with gps-ss and have discussed many options with them. Overall they were positive, but they work on a very different model to us. Ben and I can make a decision in 5 minutes and implement it immediately, whereas they have a committee based system, with many complex rules and technical committees (as that say a camel is a horse designed by a committee). The issue here, is that the gpsteamchallenge can move at lightning speed, whereas the gps-ss is a bit like a snail, and we just need to be respectful we don’t tread on any toes, with our ability to move so fast. Would like some comments about how we maintain a respectful position with GPS-ss, yet advance what we have begun here. (NB. Some gps-ss committee members are in the GTC so respect please)

just my 2 cents worth

Int teams - in the age of globlisation, political boundries should not be a barrier to entry. Let the kiwis enter and compete against us and then if you get 4 or 5 NZ Teams you can start a kiwi country and same for all the other int Teams.
There could be 4 or 5 teams on Maui for instance. Just expand your map as the participation increases.

Sponsors - let's have a chat about this one, whats good for the challenge is good for us too.

Politics - Who needs it! Have a web link to state assocs is enough.

I would have thought that what made it so successful was the fact that everyone is Australian (inclusive) but it played on the friendly state based rivalries (competitive). Kiwis could perhaps fit this mold. South Africans would be stretching it and Poms somewhere in between.

while your at it, perhaps Ben could add a forum section and some wind indicators and you could take over the windsurfing internet as well[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]


No only jokin about that


wont international teams will make it hard for random prize draws etc.

At the moment my heads telling me to keep the ozzie bit as is, create an international pro/elite division, which the ozzie teams can tick a box, and be in both, so we all have a go at taking that bloody trophy off the Swan River Mob. And the hotshots can compete against other hotshots around the world??? But we would need more international interest than we have now???

My 2c
I think the team based nature of it is the heart and sole of the site.
The premise is to get yon fat bastards, hairy ones (Elmo, decrepit), girls and others off the couch and into the water.
You need at least 2 people to post and get a recorded score.

I think Hardie has stated before that this is a fun comp, NOT to be taken too seriously.
I think if it became serious then there would be liability problems as well.
My wife was out competing in the Team Challenge and hurt her back and can no longer work etc, who is to blame or seek financial damages.
Also imagine if every post required someone to check the GPS file, you guys would need some serious resources then.

Keep the trophy perpetual and present medals to the winning team in absence if they can't make it.
Keep the swan river as the presentation spot, they don't get much better.
And if Finnian's team comes out on top, great send them the medals. The random prize is great and encourages everyone to participate, difficult to send it overseas though.

I walk through cobblers, devil fish, weed and all sorts of other crap to windsurf with my mates and have fun. This just adds to it.

I hope that GPS-SS does not introduce some team based aspect, that would be bad.

But aren't we talking about one or two int teams joining first up? What is the difference between the sailors being in Aus or anywhere else?

Ok so the pro might have an advantage but let's face it some of the guys already racing on GTC could be considered pro's as they are specialist speed sailors.

Say this year we get a team from NZ and one from Europe in the comp fine it will raise the bar a bit for everybody but maybe they are not in the random prize draw.
Then you could say ok if there is 4 or 5 teams from a country then you can create a seperate country comp and then a comparison between top teams in each country. It's just a way in the short term of including the int teams and building the participation until there is enough teams for each country. There seems to be an underlying feeling that the aussies wouldn't be able to win against the int teams but I doubt that.
You could also say that a dutch team for instance can only log results set in Holland so that they would be limited by the conditions in their country. And besides most of those countries would not register scores in their winter because it is too cold to sail.

If the only money needed is a small amount to cover IT costs, then it is better off un-sponsored and un-commercial. As soon as you involve a sponsor, new obligations may emerge.

I think sponsorship would be pretty easy to get if at some stage in the future there was a need for additional cash to advance the cause, but it seems that at the moment a small fee (say $10 per competitor, per annum) covers costs and leaves the whole thing free of commercial obligations and distractions.

If a sponsor gave you $10000 for arguments sake, what would you do with it? There could be more prizes, but is anybody really in it for the prizes? I don’t think so. So this money would probably be of no material benefit. International cricket is currently in the process of being destroyed by commercial interests.

No doubt it has been a great success so far in attracting participants and building a network of sailors. It has also highlighted the pre-eminence of WA as having the best sailing conditions in Australia – and perhaps this combination will lead to more visits from Eastern States sailors who would now feel like they “know” quite a few people here in WA and would be welcomed if they came over for a sail. It would be the same for WA guys taking a trip to Sandy Point. You feel like you know a few people there now, and that’s great.

Having been such a success from the start, the question becomes what to do with it now? “If it aint broke don’t fix it” or “imagine what this could become”.

I think we can have a bit each way. I reckon invite the Kiwis into the challenge as it is, and it still won’t feel much different. If there are teams from elsewhere in the world though, set up a separate but parallel site, and allow the original teams to nominate whether they want their speeds to be automatically included in the international site. Thus the international site could be a little bit more serious and competitive (remember a lot of people want that), and the original site could remain fun and inclusive.

I would also suggest the international site go Doppler and have a limit of say 10 per team.

I agree with Chris and Nebs... Although a beer sponsor wouldn't go astray. Little Creatures are you listening?

I think that the success of the GTC will lead to its downfall. Initially the Connewarre crew challenged the Boggy Boys to a crate of Coopers for the team aggregate of nautical mile speeds running for a month. Was followed by an "open" competetion with Wa and Qld teams included for best one hour times. This to some extent lead to the GTC. With these challenges you got to know your rivals and could follow their local forecasts and look forward to comparing results. As the competition gets bigger it loses the personal rivalry. Other competitors are merely nameless people in some other location, admittedly doing something with a shared passion. Introduce more teams and then some overseas teams and you risk losings what its all about.... Pitting your skill at your favourite spot for a couple of beers with some friends. If you remove the "risk" of losing and having to fork out for the beers while making the possibility of winning unrealistic (competing against anonymous OS sailors) then I think you risk losing the essence of the challenge.

hardie said...


...keep the Aust GTC as is.

One site, filters?

Sometimes it feels like it's just a bunch of mobsters anyway

BTW, how good did those Pinna's pelicans go the other day

In essence I agree with Frant,keep it local.But could we open it to OS teams for a year to encourage them to start their own back home.Part of the fun of the challenge is this forum stuff.As to sponnsorship stuff,what do Hardie and Neb need that will help them continue the great work that they do (Nothing fast please sponnsors)

Is there a reason that Roo's Expat Cowboys have not posted yet?
Are they all Aussies or still Aussies?
Hmmmm!!!

Seriously though I think selling it as a franchise is the way to go, keep ours local but still being able to compete with other countries using exactly the same system.

Team against team, state against state and then country against country and yes we probably get more time on the water than most so we have a good advantage.
Also some of the quickest sailors in the world!

It could take a while to get the other countries up and running but I really think it might take off as quick as it did here and there could be a lot of local sponsor support for the overseas comps.

Gee Hardie n Nebs, I like it as it is. Be hard to feel its starting to become clinical and governed by the normal processes that program/sites like GP-ss.
Your slant on how we benefit from the ability to change at a blink is a real plus. No need to go through committees blah blah blah, you post a question (like you have now) we all throw in our two bobs worth (20 cents) and ziiiipppp its done.
Right now we have the ability to post 24/7 and most of understand its a small in-house server allowing to do this, run/owned by Nebs. Progressing to OS included will add to his and your workload. Yes I am pr-emptying your answer, "its no trouble." But the last thing we all want is you two getting buried in this thing.
Reckon including the ANZACS is inevitable, and as indicated once they have a few teams up, maybe a NZ comp.
But in the end, its really yours and Nebs work that has got us too this point. We all have just jumped on the gravy train for a bloody good ride.
The last thing we would want too do is promote that we are selfish and want it all for ourselves. But seeing as you two do such a bloody fine job, can you blame us
Sponsors?????? That's going to be a real prickly situation that will need a lot of thought and negotiation with the current group who had the jatz crackers to put up, with the belief it was the way to go.
The last thing you would want is for them not to reap the benefits of limiting the exposure if you had the ability to spread it to include other Country's.
As for new ones coming on board, even further minefields to negotiate, as they would want some say in how its promoted, yes?
Even this site is reaping the benefits of the GTC as its profile grows. All our blathering traffic goes mostly via here and that's greater exposure for this sites sponsors

Jayzoos I hope this makes sense, it did while I was two finger typing it
This isnt the Pinna Pelicans viewpoint, only mine. (Great handle Pugs)

I'm down with that = I agree with hard's.

Cheers GT

Good to see, hear hear!!!
If it ain't broke.....................

Well done Hardie and Neb's