Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Locosys GW-60

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Created by sailquik > 9 months ago, 5 Oct 2016
Boombuster
QLD, 467 posts
8 Dec 2016 5:31PM
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Un-boxing of the New GW-60 GPS Watch from Locosys

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 3:53PM
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Boombuster said..
Should it be said that no one should be using the watches for posting on GPSTC until they are approved?
Daff or Mike might reply as the watches are about too hit the water.


I'll leave the official thing to Daffy, but last I heard from him was that they are meant to have the identical workings to the GW52, so shouldn't need a lot of work to approve them.
I'm glad to see the antenna is indeed under the "GPS" sign on the band. This should mean the antenna is never pointing directly at the water, so the underhand/overhand thing shouldn't be too noticeable.
But it's the first thing I'm going to check, as soon as my unit is charged up.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 5:06PM
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Didn't take long to charge, seems to work ok with the gw52 software. Went for a bit of a run around the park and there is some sdop variation, but that could be with the watch facing the ground. I'm too buggered at the moment to do a better test on the push bike, (the tyre needs pumping up).
The ultimate test will be sailing with the GW52 on my head and the GW60 on my wrist. Forecast looks promising so stay tuned.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 5:51PM
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AUS1111 said..
Mine has just rocked up

No instructions? Is some guru going to knock together a quick Youtube tutorial for us dummies / lazy people?


Very similar to the GW52, here's where I've set mine.
buzzer, x

logging, 5hz. Smart seemed like a good idea, but during a gybe it changes frequency which confuses the software and gives strange alpha results. So if I'm doing distance I set to 1hz, but for the rest of the time, 2s gives better looking alphas and more accurate 2s. The software can center the peak speed, where as at 1hz you could be off to the side of the peak speed and missing some decimal points.

min SPD, 2kt

unit, NM

GMT, +8 (for Perth)

SPD AVG, I've set mine for 2s, because the max speed at 5hz can be almost a knot higher and it's the 2s I'm really interested in. The 10s average will be on the GW52

SPD Genie, I have set to 27kt, because I'm interested in speeds over that, and 'm not likely to do more than that upwind. In other words set this between your downwind and upwind speeds, that way you can see the last run when you get back to the start.

Action SPD, is on S, but I don't think this matters, unless you want to see the average speed while you are sailing.

SPD Font, BIG

SPD History, O

Scroll, 1.5s but that's because this old brain couldn't cope with 1s using the GW52 in a pouch, maybe with the watch I'll be able to see it a bit clearer and cope with a higher data rate.

USB Class, If you're a windows user you'll leave this on the default "COM", being a linux user mine is on "UMS", MAC users will want this as well.


decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 5:53PM
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Boombuster said..
Un-boxing of the New GW-60 GPS Watch from Locosys


You're looking a wee bit puzzled Glynn?

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 6:13PM
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Next question, do we update the firmware?????
mine says it has version V061123E
The site has version V1.0G1206A

I can't see a "read me" anywhere to say what the difference is.

lunny74
WA, 19 posts
8 Dec 2016 8:11PM
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If anyone is interested i have posted on GPSTC, Pinnaroos today using the GW60 with the GT31 comparison results pasted in. I updated the firmware straight away Mike with no obvious dramas.
Theres an interesting alpha difference explained in my post.
Nice to be able to read it without trying to squint through the waterproof pouch
I'm happy with it so far.
Lunny

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 8:43PM
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Lunny, I've PM'd you, I'd love a look at your tracks, but can't down load them from KA72

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 9:41PM
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OK here's Lunny's best gybe from the GT31, and the same gybe from the GW60



The right hand image shows the nice curve 5hz makes, the left curve shows the 1hz straight lines. There's also a big in how closely the doppler and trackpoint tracks differ. The red lines are trackpoints the green line doppler. The red line on the right (GT31) has a 50m separation, the GW60 is 52M so doesn't show up in the alphas.
And Lunny there is a 21.697 at 53m, might pay to get a bit tighter.

OK I'm off to see if I can see any underhand overhand difference.

Note, Lunny says the GT31 was worn on the back of his vest, depending on the gybe this can give strange results as the sky view changes during the gybe, so don't draw any conclusions about relative accuracy.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
8 Dec 2016 9:53PM
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There is a noticeable difference in the SDOP envelope.




So the first and third runs are starboard the 2nd and 3rd are port. The Sdop envelope is bigger on Port than starboard. Just how significant this is I'll leave to the true gurus.

Cocky2
QLD, 29 posts
9 Dec 2016 7:07AM
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After all the posts about testing new devices and watches for GPSTC you should not be able to post until the scientific tests are done by the committee.

lunny74
WA, 19 posts
9 Dec 2016 6:16AM
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Cocky2 said..
After all the posts about testing new devices and watches for GPSTC you should not be able to post until the scientific tests are done by the committee.


Rest assured i shall report to my local police station for this serious crime i have committed

Boombuster
QLD, 467 posts
9 Dec 2016 8:33AM
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This morning I tried connecting the GW-60 too the utility and set it all up and I got to say it connects so well its a huge improvement on the hit and miss connection of the GW-52 the buttons are also heaps better than a touch screen. I have owned a Ezon GPS BT watch for about a year it looks very similar with the same band and case even the printing on the back is the same like its out of the same factory from China. The Ezon is 50mt as the GW-60 and its been a very good watch for windsurfing one difference with the Ezon watch is it has a white reflective font on a grey background and the brighter the sun the clearer it is. The GW-60 font seems very clear as well but I will have too try it on the water and see how easy it is too read in bright light.

JHdeBruin
30 posts
9 Dec 2016 7:22AM
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"First small video unboxing the brand new full-doppler GPS GW-60 from Locosys, made by GPS-Speedsurfing.com"



John340
QLD, 1678 posts
9 Dec 2016 10:25AM
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Cocky2 said..
After all the posts about testing new devices and watches for GPSTC you should not be able to post until the scientific tests are done by the committee.


Good point Ian. Do the "Technical Advisers" have any idea on the timing of these tests?

John340
QLD, 1678 posts
9 Dec 2016 11:23AM
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I've run Lunny's GW-60 and GT-31 files from KA72 on 8/12/16 in GPS Results and compared the results. The following table is a comparison of the best 5 results for 2s, 10s, alpha, NM and the 1 result for hour. I've lined up the time for each unit and noted the difference in recorded knots and the %. The greatest difference is 0.118kts for a alpha at 13:53:25 which represents a 0.62% difference in speed.

Mike, Daffy, How do these results compare?









decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 11:00AM
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John, as I've mentioned the GT31 was worn on his back, this can cause funny things to happen as the GT31 goes in and out of his head shadow in gybes.
This could be the reason for the difference between the GT31's trackpoint and doppler tracks.
I've found in the past the GW52 gives slightly slower alphas than the GT31, possibly because it measures the curve as a curve not a series of straight lines, whereas lunny's above are the other way around, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the to GWs
So alpha numbers don't mean much at the moment, we'll get better evaluation when I can compare the GW52 on my head and the GW60 on my wrist.
Today, I'll do a test run with both on the roof of my car, to establish the accuracy with both antennas pointing at clear sky. The we'll be able to see what difference wearing on the wrist makes.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 1:17PM
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Well that didn't go all that well, left the GW52 on 1hz after my distance attempt Wednesday. And the GW60 data has the odd small hole in it.
Maybe because I had it on the end of my masts that were springing about a bit?

Hmm on a closer look the GW52 dropped out as well.



So you can see the GW52 gives me 4 alpha results, but the watch only gives me 2. But in this alpha the GW52 has a negative spike going to zero, whereas the GW60 doesn't. I think gpsresults still counts this as there is a 1s data point of 0. If you look at the gybe on the left very closely you can see the small gap in the green sat line and the tracks just above the "s" in SDoP. this is a missing data point so realspeed doesn't allow this GW60 alpha.

The big thing though is the SDoP envelope, look how small it is on both of them, in fact you can hardly see it, compare this with lunny's and you get an idea of how much more accurate the units are when they have a clear skyview. There is a +/- of 0.0something of a knot.

OK I better have another go at this test a bit later on, looks like a breeze is coming in.


decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 4:40PM
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OK I've hit another snag with the non windows operation, I can delete the top 10 max and Ns average speeds from the unit, but not distance. I vaguely remember somebody asking about this with the GW52, and I think a solution was found, does anybody remember what it was?
If I can't delete displayed distance without booting into windows, there doesn't seem a lot of point.
Maybe the latest firmware solves this problem, any bets?

AUS 808
WA, 208 posts
9 Dec 2016 4:50PM
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JHdeBruin said..
"First small video unboxing the brand new full-doppler GPS GW-60 from Locosys, made by GPS-Speedsurfing.com"

//
?rel=0



Typical, you just start pushing buttons without reading the instructions
You will be asking how to fix the all settings you mucked up in a minute

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 5:21PM
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2nd test worked much better, and had both units on 5hz. This time tied a bottom mast end on the racks and mounted both units on it with antennas about 5cms apart.


So the "GPS" button on the watch where the antenna is, and the GW52 are both facing the sky. It's obvious here, how much easier the watch is to read.
I think a run in the sun had started to fade the GW52's display.

This time both units produced the same 6 alphas in GPSResults.


The watch is showing slightly better accuracy figures, could this be the difference a pouch makes???? But they are all within cooee.
And I think it's the first time ever I've seen a 500.0m alpha.

I'm much happier now, these look good, I wonder if it was the springy masts that caused the problem in the first test? Any clues people?

I haven't got around to a close analyses of the other figures yet, but the 2s are also looking extremely close.



decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 5:26PM
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John340 said..

Cocky2 said..
After all the posts about testing new devices and watches for GPSTC you should not be able to post until the scientific tests are done by the committee.



Good point Ian. Do the "Technical Advisers" have any idea on the timing of these tests?


Sorry Guys, Daffy is on the middle of the Nullabor, no knowing when he'll get around to looking at this stuff, but I'll try and have as much data ready for him when he does.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 6:32PM
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Easiest way for me to check any big discrepancies is the GPSarpro speed graph overlay.



The watch is yellow the GW52 is red, differences are very small.
This is as expected, for both units close together with good sky view. But I felt it needed to be checked gives us a good base to check what happens with the GW60 on the wrist on the water.


decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 7:50PM
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decrepit said..
OK I've hit another snag with the non windows operation, I can delete the top 10 max and Ns average speeds from the unit, but not distance. I vaguely remember somebody asking about this with the GW52, and I think a solution was found, does anybody remember what it was?
If I can't delete displayed distance without booting into windows, there doesn't seem a lot of point.
Maybe the latest firmware solves this problem, any bets?



Solved, very quick response from Locosys.

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Dear Mike,

This is Rudy writing to answer your question.
Here is the instruction to delete the data on your GW-60
Step 1: Turn on GPS mode
Step 2: Press "ADJUST?" to delete the records



I had a feeling it was something simple, this deletes the log data as well as the distance display.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
9 Dec 2016 8:10PM
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On my speed overlap above, where you can see the red poking through, there's up to 0.5kt difference, this is mainly because of a spike in the GW52 data, which also shows a slightly lower SDoP accuracy.
At this stage the watch is looking a tad more accurate than my GW52.

Here's the biggest GPSARPro difference up close.



and here's the gpsresults look at the SDoP for the same time.






But, I've been led astray by this, in other spots it's the watch that has the worse SDoP, so can't really draw any conclusions about relative accuracy from this test, only that they are very close.

Boombuster
QLD, 467 posts
11 Dec 2016 11:36AM
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First go with my Locosys GW-60

Cocky2
QLD, 29 posts
11 Dec 2016 12:21PM
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Is the battery life or memory any better than a GW52 that does not last a long distance session?
Does the battery last longer on 1 kHz?

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
11 Dec 2016 7:55PM
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Cocky2 said..
Is the battery life or memory any better than a GW52 that does not last a long distance session?
Does the battery last longer on 1 kHz?



I haven't got round to checking this yet, but I think the memory and battery are the same, and I don't think running on 1hz helps the battery as data is still acquired at 5hz then averaged out for 1s, so although the memory is only being written to once a second, the averaging calculation has to be performed.

decrepit
WA, 7686 posts
11 Dec 2016 8:21PM
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I had my first go today as well. GW52 on my head, GW60 on my wrist.
Experienced deep disappointment, when the max speed on the GW52 was 1kt more than the watch.
I was thinking that the wrist is indeed a very bad place for a GPS!

BUT Analysing the data was a big relief, the GW52 max speed was a 5hz ripple, that the watch doesn't seem to have.
The actual results are within cooee, with the watch registering a few tenths of a knot less than the GW52.
However the underhand overhand thing is similar to Lunny's




Watch is bottom track, left run is port right run is starboard, watch is on left hand. So the SDoP envelope is similar to the GW52 on Starboard when the watch is overhand, and worse on Port when the watch is underhand. The antenna on the inner wrist doesn't quite do the trick.

10s: GW52???? 10s GW60
time m [knots] time m [knots]
15:42:57 135.5 26.338+/-0.183 - 15:42:56 135.1 26.269+/-0.153
15:55:13 130.0 25.266+/-0.156 - 15:55:13 129.9 25.243+/-0.243
15:57:58 127.9 24.867+/-0.103 - 15:57:58 127.8 24.846+/-0.135
16:02:34 125.7 24.439+/-0.163 - 16:02:34 125.0 24.293+/-0.264
15:51:06 122.7 23.844+/-0.096 - 15:51:06 122.7 23.855+/-0.093
15:48:16 121.8 23.684+/-0.115 - 15:48:16 121.5 23.614+/-0.109
16:05:54 105.0 20.410+/-0.118 - 16:05:53 104.7 20.354+/-0.156
15:45:30 94.4 18.355+/-0.166 - 15:45:31 94.5 18.375+/-0.241
16:15:30 75.4 14.653+/-0.128 - 16:15:30 75.6 14.696+/-0.113
16:08:51 73.2 14.235+/-0.144 - 16:08:51 73.8 14.348+/-0.212

There's not a huge difference in SDoP either.
Tomorrow with any luck there'll be more wind, and I can check Starboard and Port downwind runs.

And here's the GPSARPro overlay.






Red is the watch yellow GW52, to the right of the top 2s result is the GW52 5hz peak speed, the reason for the difference in displayed max speed.

Looks like I'm going to have to wear the GT31 as well to sort these two out.

Cocky2
QLD, 29 posts
12 Dec 2016 9:05AM
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Noticed a couple of people have already posted in GPSTC with the GW60 watch.

Everybody is getting them and wants to use them.

In the past there have been many derogatory comments made about watches and posting from unapproved devices.

The genie is out of the bottle.

When are they going to be approved?



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Locosys GW-60" started by sailquik