Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Motion wait-time?

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Created by mikey100 7 months ago, 15 Dec 2019
mikey100
QLD, 712 posts
15 Dec 2019 7:51AM
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Have recently ordered a Motion GPS on the website. Realistically, does anyone have an appropriate wait-time on when you would possibly be at the top of the list for delivery? Thought I heard someone say they were still waiting 6months on!
...any educated guesses???

Hroar
QLD, 111 posts
15 Dec 2019 8:38AM
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I know of three sailors who ordered over 8 months ago

Cocky2
QLD, 189 posts
15 Dec 2019 9:08AM
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Mikey,
If you only have 1 GW60 you should buy another one.
Once that breaks you will have to wait for over a week to get one from WA.

Just be patient and get used to no data when Satellites drop out in the afternoon . It is getting frustrating when trying to do an hr.

I have 3 x GW60, 2 x GW52, Garmin920XT.

Never push buttons on GW60 when wet.

sailquik
VIC, 5048 posts
15 Dec 2019 11:14AM
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As I understand it, Motion got a troublesome batch of screens recently which they are reluctant to use (could cause them to have to replace many or all under warranty) so they are waiting for replacements and production has virtually stopped. There is a very long list of orders so fulfilment will take quite a long time for those at the end of the queue.
Yes, it could be months.
In this instant gratification world, this is bound to upset some people.
From my point of view it is well worth the wait if you have an alternative to use.

I my humble opinion, if you are keen GPS sailor, it is very wise to have at least 2 GPS on hand as Cocky2 has indicated.

It is also my recommendation that, for at least a potentially really good session, you wear a backup GPS to help avoid disappointments caused by any number of potential problems that have always existed. Nothing is, or has ever been, 100% foolproof, failure proof, or accident proof.

The GW-60 is available from a number of sources, not just WA.

Rob11
234 posts
15 Dec 2019 8:28AM
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Cocky2 said..
I have 3 x GW60, 2 x GW52, Garmin920XT.



Do you wear all of them all the time? To make sure you dont miss on a 0.2 PB ?
Joke aside, do you see the satellite drop out on all the different GPSs or only some?

mikey100
QLD, 712 posts
15 Dec 2019 11:43AM
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Not desperate, just wondering app wait time. Guessing 6mths+ would be a reasonable guess.

Hroar
QLD, 111 posts
15 Dec 2019 12:07PM
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Rob, I have a GW52 and Gt31 to post from as approved devices. I also use a Canmore every time as backup, it so far has not had the issue of satellite dropout so at least I can crosscheck its numbers against GW52. I also wear a Garmin watch for looking at numbers whilst sailing and a another crosscheck, again no satellite dropout problems with it.

Cocky2
QLD, 189 posts
15 Dec 2019 12:23PM
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Rob11 said..


Cocky2 said..
I have 3 x GW60, 2 x GW52, Garmin920XT.





Do you wear all of them all the time? To make sure you dont miss on a 0.2 PB ?
Joke aside, do you see the satellite drop out on all the different GPSs or only some?



I always wear Garmin and GW60.
One on each wrist.
I Never touch GW60 after starting and locking screen until returning at end session , then waiting till wash in fresh water and dry before turning off. The Garmin gives all data on water I need and read screen. The GW 60 I have cycled on display to show alpha which is what I can get from Garmin app.

The satellite issue is not ever day. It has been happening more lately on GW60. The GW 52 will do the same if there is a problem.

On team number days I wear a GW52 back up in my vest at front and it will give sometimes give a better alpha than GW60 on wrist.

i also sail with people wear GT31 as gives a better 2 sec very regularly than GW60 as it only records at 1 sec intervals not 0.2 sec like GW60 and GW52.

Have not worn more than 2 approved devices.
On large distance days have to swap after 5 hours as battery does bot last 6 hours and GW52 will only record about 250km before memory filled.
Sometimes I will charge GW 60 from Battery USB charger in break as it has a lot of memory.

Have now used GW 60 from a mix of watches 440 times as I number my posts.

Gw 52 about 100 on first one and second 70 times.

Garmin still going strong after more than 500 uses.

sailquik
VIC, 5048 posts
15 Dec 2019 3:31PM
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Cocky2 said.
On team number days I wear a GW52 back up in my vest at front and it will give sometimes give a better alpha than GW60 on wrist.


For best staellite reception, front of the vest is not ideal. It is better to wear on your bicep as it gets slightly better sky view without as much body (head) blocking.

The very best is to wear it on top (or inside) of your helmet or hat. In this position the sky view is the best available and results always have a significantly lower SDOP (higher accuracy) than a GW-60 on the wrist, and often gets a higher satellite count when availability is marginal. Of course, wearing your GPS on your head often requires a bit more effort. The choice is yours.

Re the GT-31 v's GW-52/60, 1Hz v's 5Hz. It is sometimes the case that you will get a very marginally better (real) result with the 5Hz devices if you speed graph is on a sharply rising and falling curve, sharp accelleration and/or then sharpe deceleration. In this case, the 5Hz device will allow the software to find a more optimal part of the speed curve. The results rarely differ by a significant (> 0.1kt) amount though. For a 2 second result, it may be more then a 10 second result, but often this is accompanied by a quite high SDOP (error range).

powersloshin
NSW, 1144 posts
15 Dec 2019 8:09PM
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I also ordered in April and still waiting. I have nothing to complain, I know I am not dealing with a commercial enterprise but a fellow windsurfer with a lot of passion for what he is doing. Due to this issue it would be wise to keep the Canmore in the approved list for a bit longer. I was contacted some time ago by GPSTC admin and was told it would be banned soon.

JulienLe
150 posts
16 Dec 2019 12:09AM
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There's a few hundred devices in the waiting list, amongst them are a few record holders, a few champions, a few organisations who'd like plenty for their events and a few Australians who agreed to wait for the final version. I changed plenty since last year and whilst I'm ready and everyone loves the new wireless version, I have a batch of failing LCDs and up to a month ago, had no alternatives possible. I just tried a whole new display last week and whilst it isn't the change I hoped for, the LCD at least has better contrast and better colours so I'm switching to it in a desperate last push. In other words, I have a full finished product everyone likes but its continuation hangs to this new LCD.

I'd love to send plenty and I'd love to be paid too because I'm so far in the red due to R&D that i'm living a terrible life right now. Hell, I just said no to an order of 50 for a spring event. I can't reasonably accept payments knowing I might have to delay/replace them. This would only end the project. I only have five paid orders from Australia right now.

I worked on this for years and I'd rather make it worth it for the next ten years than release something troublesome. Comparisons at Luderitz show a difference of 0.03kn between official results and Motion. They all loved it and many attendees ordered one even though all LCDs had vertical black lines by the end of the event. It's what keeps me going. I understand it's long but everyone's free to cancel. I wont take a huge risk for the project and I just to appease a few snarky comments from people who aren't users nor in the queue. The original topic is fine, it's a good question and I receive so many emails that I'm sure I sometimes miss some. If you don't have an answer in 48h, just email me again.

segler
465 posts
16 Dec 2019 12:59AM
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Good job, Julien. Keep at it. We all benefit, even if we have to wait for what ONE GUY does, compared to armies of engineers at other places.

Boombuster
QLD, 537 posts
16 Dec 2019 6:22AM
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Im wearing two GW-60 now I have a GT-31 away having the battery changed.
Just get a second GW-60 Mike better than nothing.

aussieboats
NSW, 294 posts
16 Dec 2019 7:28AM
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we have 2 of the new wirless versions and so far all good , one has the vertical line but who cares it still works as long as it dosnt get worse we are more than happy ,yes its been a long wait but thats fine and thanks to julien for persisting with the device

tbwonder
NSW, 322 posts
16 Dec 2019 9:42AM
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You have a great product Julien, far better than anything any of the big boys have ever made. In time everyone will forget the delays.
It's a pretty simple situation, you have the best product and by far the best customer service, people may not be happy but they WILL wait.
Take it easy on yourself and good luck with the new screens.
My Motion is still perfect after 8 months.

elmo
WA, 8156 posts
16 Dec 2019 7:13AM
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Keep up the good work Julian, ignore the naysayers pushing their own agenda's

decrepit
WA, 10081 posts
16 Dec 2019 8:51AM
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Julien, if money is a real problem, I'm sure there are people here willing to share the risk with you, if it's going to save the project.

As to the Canmore, we seem to have discovered, reformatting it drastically improves the dropped data point problem.
I don't think it will be removed from the approved list until the Motion wait time has come right down.

fanatic02
NSW, 292 posts
16 Dec 2019 7:17PM
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Keep up the good work Julien . I have the first series . After 8 months its still going great . Lcd is perfect as pictured below . I have used it at least 40 times Way better and more durable than any other device ive used .Personally i tape the usb with electrical tape and use in a pacqua . So i think waiting for Julien to sort out the issues is well worth it .
Cheers . Greg

BSN101
WA, 1840 posts
16 Dec 2019 4:38PM
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Im waitin, happily waiting! Thanks Julien

tbwonder
NSW, 322 posts
16 Dec 2019 10:05PM
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Nice one Greg, I think that's called 'number dropping'. You just happen to have a 40+ on the dial on that random shot of your motion.

I like my motion too, here is a pic of it.





spanishwog
QLD, 102 posts
16 Dec 2019 9:12PM
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I'm waiting too - all power too you Julien.

The feedback that I have herd / seen has all been very positive for the motion.

Decrepit - thanks for the decision on the canmore - saves me buying the GW60 so looks like a new fin for xmas for me instead!!

fanatic02
NSW, 292 posts
16 Dec 2019 11:56PM
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tbwonder said..
Nice one Greg, I think that's called 'number dropping'. You just happen to have a 40+ on the dial on that random shot of your motion.

I like my motion too, here is a pic of it.






Hahahaha . nice random picture also Andy

Stretchy
WA, 599 posts
16 Dec 2019 9:12PM
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In the queue also and happy to wait. Top work Julien, wishing you every success

boardsurfr
WA, 1054 posts
16 Dec 2019 10:39PM
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decrepit said..
Julien, if money is a real problem, I'm sure there are people here willing to share the risk with you, if it's going to save the project.



Can't believe I'm really saying this ...

Julien, I'd suggest that you temporarily raise the price for the Motion. It is in very high demand, and there are plenty of people who'd be happy to pay more, especially for a shorter wait time. But most importantly, this might help to relieve some of the stress on your life.

Of course, the hope would be that you'd lower the price again to the current levels once production catches up with demand .

The Motion is by far the best GPS for speedsurfing out there. It's worth at least twice as much as a GW60 - if nothing else, you'll probably have to replace a GW-60 at least twice as often. But the Motion has better accuracy, no problems with low satellite counts, and much better functionality. On of many things I love about it is being able to see how fast I'm going in the middle of a speed run because it has a great, easily readable display.

mathew
QLD, 1822 posts
17 Dec 2019 11:37AM
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boardsurfr said..

I'd suggest that you temporarily raise the price for the Motion.


How will the increase in price, solve the problem of source-component-unavailability ?

mikey100
QLD, 712 posts
17 Dec 2019 1:31PM
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Hi Julian,
I posed the original question, for no other reason than to get an approximate wait-time without bothering you.
Am happy to wait as 'Good things come to those who wait.'
cheers,
Mikey

boardsurfr
WA, 1054 posts
18 Dec 2019 2:00AM
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mathew said..
How will the increase in price, solve the problem of source-component-unavailability ?


Higher prices may enable Julien to replace components with higher-priced components that are more readily available, and/or less likely to have hidden defects - and still make a profit.

But that's just one reason I suggested raising the price, and not the major one. Julien has (and has had) a bunch of problems, including various issues with components. Various components have caused delivery delays and warranty issues because they were defective, which sometimes only became apparent after making and shipping a number of devices. Unlike Locosys, Julien will try to honor warranty claims, which is wonderful. But all together, this creates a lot of financial stress. Raising the price would (eventually) relieve some of the stress. It may also enable him to do things like paying someone else to help assemble the units.

That said, plain business analysis says that if demand is much higher than supply, as is the case for the Motion, then prices can be raised. That will reduce demand, but it may also help increasing supply for reasons like those described above. Sure, we don't like higher prices, but the last thing we'd want is Julien stopping to make the Motion because he can't make a living of it.

JulienLe
150 posts
18 Dec 2019 2:42AM
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I can't even trust the biggest belgian industrial distributor. I had a big order of epoxy 40 days late and they ended up cancelling by saying the manufacturer had stopped production. I called the manufacturer and they denied it. I then ordered in Germany and it went fine. It's dumb but I have dozens of dumber stories.

Now, the problem for the screens is lack of alternatives. The first ones were awesome and never failed. They will never be produced again and my search for "old stocks" has run dry. I was lucky to find 65 more six months ago. The current ones fail for some reason I can't reproduce here. Some even "un-fail" later in time. I'm trying this third type as a last hope simply because after it, there's no more to try. Everyone loves the big very readable display, I'd hate to move to something unreadable or smaller or that would halve battery life or even less obtainable (looking at you Sharp Memory LCD). Also, I'd have to redo the molds and it takes ages.

I just said no to another event today. I simply can't take any payments because I might have to refund them. I'd live fine if I could.

It's an accumulation. I've found solutions, processes, tricks for all issues up until now and always felt confident about it but on this one I don't.

mikey100
QLD, 712 posts
18 Dec 2019 4:07PM
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Hi Julian...
just a thought. As most sailors I know who are interested in the Motion already have a device for on-water feedback (eg Canmore, Garmin etc) and because you are having screen issues... would it be a possibility for you to produce just loggers, which are Bluetooth for 'official' results?
( I think you hinted towards that previously in some forum. )
I, for one, would be happy with that...not sure how others feel about this suggestion. Would that be an acceptable option for you?
Cheers, Mikey

JulienLe
150 posts
18 Dec 2019 6:26PM
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The topic is here : www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Gps/Simple-logger-with-Bluetooth-connectivity?page=3

I'll reply to it now.

Stretchy
WA, 599 posts
18 Dec 2019 7:27PM
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mikey100 said..
Hi Julian...
just a thought. As most sailors I know who are interested in the Motion already have a device for on-water feedback (eg Canmore, Garmin etc) and because you are having screen issues... would it be a possibility for you to produce just loggers, which are Bluetooth for 'official' results?
( I think you hinted towards that previously in some forum. )
I, for one, would be happy with that...not sure how others feel about this suggestion. Would that be an acceptable option for you?
Cheers, Mikey


I would also be happy to go for your light version if that avoids your screen impasse



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"Motion wait-time?" started by mikey100