Forums > Windsurfing Gear Reviews

Innovative new sail design

Reply
Created by MaartenAir 1 month ago, 17 Jan 2020
MaartenAir
9 posts
17 Jan 2020 1:17AM
Thumbs Up

What do you think of this new windsurf sail design?
www.facebook.com/437195332966400/posts/2949250955094146/

Looks like a update of a sail with a foiled mast.

Regards, Maarten

MaartenAir
9 posts
17 Jan 2020 1:21AM
Thumbs Up

www.mistral.com/mistral-2020-brochure/?cli_action=1579195096.282

It is called the Mistral Carbo Wing

Gestalt
QLD, 12506 posts
17 Jan 2020 7:34AM
Thumbs Up

I got nothin good to say.

gorgesailor
263 posts
17 Jan 2020 6:32AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MaartenAir said..
What do you think of this new windsurf sail design?
www.facebook.com/437195332966400/posts/2949250955094146/

Looks like a update of a sail with a foiled mast.

Regards, Maarten


Seems to me they are trying to solve a nonexistent problem & creating a few new ones ... I mean the 4.0 with a fixed 170cm boom? I can't imagine it will be lighter & wow it must be expensive...

Subsonic
WA, 1887 posts
17 Jan 2020 7:17AM
Thumbs Up

Hard to tell without some proper footage of it, but the brief snippets in the video, it looked unstable.

Basher
158 posts
17 Jan 2020 8:27AM
Thumbs Up

I guess that's teaser advertising.
So annoying. Tells us nothing.

azymuth
WA, 956 posts
17 Jan 2020 9:44AM
Thumbs Up

duzzi
189 posts
17 Jan 2020 12:30PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MaartenAir said..
www.mistral.com/mistral-2020-brochure/?cli_action=1579195096.282

It is called the Mistral Carbo Wing


Interesting! Needs an independent test!

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1846 posts
17 Jan 2020 7:04PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Basher said..
I guess that's teaser advertising.
So annoying. Tells us nothing.


Teaser!! The sail or the mistral girls.

Mark _australia
WA, 19682 posts
17 Jan 2020 5:58PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MaartenAir said..
What do you think of this new windsurf sail design?
www.facebook.com/437195332966400/posts/2949250955094146/

Looks like a update of a sail with a foiled mast.

Regards, Maarten


shows me nothing about it

test results? speeds side by side with normal stuff?


gorgesailor
263 posts
17 Jan 2020 11:50PM
Thumbs Up

some neat gadgets: Boom adjustment & batten tensioners... but the overall concept... & the sail shape looks really bad. The draft is very far back & the mast is not as fair as even a 2 cam sleeve so just don't know what they are gaining...

AUS4
NSW, 1070 posts
18 Jan 2020 7:07AM
Thumbs Up

Not very efficient when the sail leech lays off mid point and not the top pushing the draft of the sail towards the leech, reminds me of old sails without battens.

MaartenAir
9 posts
18 Jan 2020 6:09AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
gorgesailor said..
some neat gadgets: Boom adjustment & batten tensioners... but the overall concept... & the sail shape looks really bad. The draft is very far back & the mast is not as fair as even a 2 cam sleeve so just don't know what they are gaining...


Good call and well noticed. A friend of mine has tested the sail in Fuerteventura during the Mistral shoot. He mentioned the draft being quite far back. The handling of the rig is supposed to be good.

MaartenAir
9 posts
18 Jan 2020 7:56AM
Thumbs Up

From what've heard so far it seems to work ok but it needs refinement / development. A comparison test against conventional sails would be interesting.

Kwibai
69 posts
19 Jan 2020 3:53AM
Thumbs Up

One respectful remark to the gentleman in the video: dear sir, mastbend sideways and backwards is one of to the biggest feats modern windsurfing saildesign has given us.

Loading a foil with support of mastcurvature is THE future of and for our beautiful sport.

Softness, ease of use, power, stability, Centre Of Effort placement, release/twist, so basically all elements needed for a fast and responsive racing rig are the key factors benefitting from this unique design feature which apart from the mast joint makes our little sport stand out from most other sailing vessels.

You have to understand the following: the human body regardless of the size of any racer is the limiting factor we have to overcome as small but very international community.

If you're looking for a rig revolution, look towards rider weight related mast solutions for any given racing rig now on the market.


elmo
WA, 8019 posts
19 Jan 2020 6:25AM
Thumbs Up

Buy the Mistral Mast sail boom set up, two years later are Mistral still interested in it or still running?

Use special mast as flag pole
Try to convert boom to standard.

Interesting concept shame it wasn't with another company

AUS4
NSW, 1070 posts
19 Jan 2020 4:30PM
Thumbs Up

I'm not sticking up for this sail but I don't think you guys realise who and what Ernstfried Prade has done for the sport of windsurfing.

Kwibai
69 posts
19 Jan 2020 2:12PM
Thumbs Up

Ernstfried Prade is a legend, therefore and because of his name with all due respect....

Quote: " this is a revolution indeed. Because...the big problem on a normal windsurfing rig is that the mast is moving backwards and sideways and the pressurepoint in a sail is moving. This destroys more or less this wonderful profile."

Being triggered by this point he makes I feel a counter comment is valid, especially as a brand like Mistral with a massive history and prospectus and clearly putting in fresh money is putting their name behind this and seem to have taken a close look to Starboard/Jim Drake.

Innovations and thoughts exchanges can be super interesting and worthful. See for instance the standing Luderitz discussions on efficiency. This high level discussion is interesting indeed. As for these comments...well...it might have been better to think this through unless this is a pre Boot promotional effort to get free publicity.

We evolved too far as a sport to neglect comments like this. If Mistral was Ferrari I'd say, it might be wise to rethink your time and efforts as there seems to be a lot of money at stake.

sailquik
VIC, 4874 posts
22 Jan 2020 9:46AM
Thumbs Up

I think Elmo's comment was more about Mistral's track record of abandoning the windsurfing market. That is a legitimate concern.....

sailquik
VIC, 4874 posts
22 Jan 2020 10:02AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
AUS4 said..
I'm not sticking up for this sail but I don't think you guys realise who and what Ernstfried Prade has done for the sport of windsurfing.


You are correct. I have never heard of the guy. Enlighten us Rick.

gorgesailor
263 posts
22 Jan 2020 7:16AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sailquik said..

AUS4 said..
I'm not sticking up for this sail but I don't think you guys realise who and what Ernstfried Prade has done for the sport of windsurfing.



You are correct. I have never heard of the guy. Enlighten us Rick.


I don't care who it is a bad idea is what it is. All respect to his(past) accomplishments.

Ben1973
317 posts
22 Jan 2020 7:49PM
Thumbs Up

New video

Ben1973
317 posts
22 Jan 2020 7:57PM
Thumbs Up

The boom height adjustment And the mast track could be fun when a bit of sand gets in Also thinking it might be a one piece mast.
Not really innovative as boats have done that for years. Seems to work ok

leto
49 posts
23 Jan 2020 5:24AM
Thumbs Up

Agree with gorgesailor that they seem to be trying to fix a non-existent problem and create a few new ones in the process. However, parts of any semi-useless design can be small jewels that Foster future innovation. Overcomplications don't live long. I saw MW wing sails. They might be a revolution or at least something boasting more efficient profile.

Basher
158 posts
23 Jan 2020 8:22AM
Thumbs Up

I've been close to sail design all my life and this is as out of touch as you can get.

The whole direction of travel of windsurf rig design has been to use mast bend as a tuning device and to develop the sail shapes that fit our carbon masts who are increasingly sophisticated in their bend characteristics, and built to be light.

There are of course several ways to cook an egg and there are several rig designs that work for different craft - but in this case I'd ask what the all-up rig weight is? How does the sail depower when the wind increases, or for different points of sailing? What now controls mast bend and sail shape?
In the video, there is no sign that the sail is exhausting or de-powering correctly at the head, or twisting to adapt to apparent wind direction.

If we go back to a dinghy-style rope luff that fits in the mast slot then where's the aerodynamic advantage in that?

As someone else said, this is trying to fix a problem that does not exist. This is a new design for people that know nothing about windsurf sails.

Can someone which basic sail knowledge go and do another interview please?

pilchard
SA, 601 posts
23 Jan 2020 10:59AM
Thumbs Up

bla blah, more girls with no bra and white shirts

duzzi
189 posts
23 Jan 2020 2:19PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Kwibai said..
One respectful remark to the gentleman in the video: dear sir, mastbend sideways and backwards is one of to the biggest feats modern windsurfing saildesign has given us.
....




But there are plenty sail fairing vessels that do not use a a mast that bend sideways ... really: it is not a necessity.

And yes, maybe this is a solution in search for a problem but it is also the first ever rigid wing mast sail that seem to work. Good job!

segler
287 posts
24 Jan 2020 1:16AM
Thumbs Up

Innovation, whether bad or good, is always important for advancing our sport.

Let M get this out there and let's see how it works out in the end. Might be good. Might not.

Kwibai
69 posts
24 Jan 2020 4:20AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
duzzi said..





Kwibai said..
One respectful remark.....





But there are plenty sail fairing vessels that do not use a a mast that bend sideways ... really: it is not a necessity.

And yes, maybe this is a solution in search for a problem but it is also the first ever rigid wing mast sail that seem to work. Good job!






Of course you're right in one respect (as wing masts have been sucessfully used by legends like Fred Haywood, Ken Winner and Stephan van den Berg to name a few), but that was not the polnt I made (again with full respect to the person mister Prade).

Mister Prade referred to the lack of rig stability BECAUSE of mast bending sideways and backwards. That given point is total bullocks.

Apart from that the human body functions as forestay, backstay and shrouds. Flexing foils (fins and rigs) help control the total set and partially do the "thinking" for the rider. Then there is the mastjoint setting our concept apart from other sailing vessels. Sidebend adds control and increases speed in stronger winds and choppy conditions. It's very easy to understand why. Taking a closer look to Luderitz pics and the way a heavy rider like Vincent Valkenaerts makes his sail work compared to lighter riders on the same brand (and you don't want to use 20+ kilo lead like Patrik used with great results in earlier years at Luderitz) says a lot. If you check slowmotion shots you'd be surprised..hence my comments on the need for rider weight related masts on the same sailtype as proposed main design focus point.

One step further and apart from bending masts we totally rethink the way masts bend, sails flex and twist. Really...modern windsurf sails have evolved into stunning pieces of engineering with support of masts bending sideways and backwards.It's easy to forget that given fact.

Many years of development is set aside with the remark made by mister Prade. I really hate to even comment in a negative way but I was simply stunned by the remark itself. If the focus would have been on the rig and the way it functions I would have refrained from any critical comment.

It might even be pre shaped wide rigid masts with (very) limited sailcloth area are the future of light wind foiling as rig movement is way less and in light wind the aim is to lift the board and foils, but that's a completely different discussion.

snorkel692
QLD, 298 posts
24 Jan 2020 10:14AM
Thumbs Up

I'm just terrified of the price likely to be asked. Much as I love an M and a dot on gear....

ZeeGerman
127 posts
24 Jan 2020 11:11PM
Thumbs Up

I just love the captions in the Video.
"mastfood" is probably great when you go hungry on a long haul. But where is It stored? Or is the mast edible? It seems the majority here are missing out on the true revolutionary potential of this beast.
Arnaud de Rosnay might still be among us could he have eaten his mast off China.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing Gear Reviews


"Innovative new sail design" started by MaartenAir