Forums > Windsurfing Gear Reviews

Sail quality...

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Created by madlad 6 months ago, 18 Apr 2017
madlad
WA, 111 posts
18 Apr 2017 9:25AM
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Anyone else noticing sail quality not up to spec lately? I have bought two brand new sails of a manufacturer who is supposed to be known for quality (and charges accordingly), and both have pulled out along the luff and foot without extreme tension. I know of other people who have spent thousands on sails from other manufacturers who have also had issues. Is it that manufacturers are just getting them made on the cheap or is this to be expected?

Rob11
163 posts
18 Apr 2017 10:31AM
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NP is certainly NOT known for its quality...

madlad
WA, 111 posts
18 Apr 2017 10:48AM
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Rob11 said..
NP is certainly NOT known for its quality...


Really? Thats not what i heard before i bought them. More fool me then..mind you, others i know with other well known brands have had similar issues lately..

TASSIEROCKS
TAS, 1623 posts
18 Apr 2017 12:56PM
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Buy Mauisails or Naish I have never had any issues like this at all in the last 30 years of windsurfing..

Cheers Russ

madlad
WA, 111 posts
18 Apr 2017 11:24AM
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TASSIEROCKS said..
Buy Mauisails or Naish I have never had any issues like this at all in the last 30 years of windsurfing..

Cheers Russ


Problem is ive already invested in matching masts etc...another annoying thing about windsurfing, that gear isnt always compatible..

Magic Ride
719 posts
18 Apr 2017 12:38PM
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Madlad,

What are the brand name of the sails and type that you are having problems with?

madlad
WA, 111 posts
18 Apr 2017 12:42PM
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Magic Ride said..
Madlad,

What are the brand name of the sails and type that you are having problems with?


NP for me, but my friend has had issues with another brand which i wont name. I just wanted to know if anyone else was having issues.

Stuthepirate
WA, 3085 posts
18 Apr 2017 1:36PM
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I have to say, i moved away from NP not because of sail quality but due to mast compatibility.
Current sail with a set of KAs from 2012 to 2016. 2 reasons. Australian Brand and Constant Curves.
Haven't had any issues with durability or quality.
2012 Kult is due for replacement only as its my go-to sail and done a lot of sessions in 5 years

Beaglebuddy
1583 posts
18 Apr 2017 2:02PM
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Only judging from what people talk about mostly in print, NP seems to have a reputation for fantastically designed sails but there is a problem with durability. I sail Hot Sails Superfreaks which basically last forever. Ezzy also has a reputation for being extremely durable.

Magic Ride
719 posts
18 Apr 2017 2:15PM
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I got a NP Combat a few years ago and it did look a little cheap in regards to the materials and how they were put together. I never sailed it cuz of mast wasn't compatible. The sail sure is light though. But then on the other hand, NP seems to be used in most of all Jp board advertising today with their modern boards.

But I have always been happy with Ezzy, Naish and Goya sails. I think Ezzy and Goya sails are my favorite. But I have updated most of my masts now to Ezzy Hookipa RDM, so I have a feeling all future sails will be Ezzy to match the masts.

petermac33
WA, 3892 posts
18 Apr 2017 2:20PM
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Nearly always a price to pay for lighter weight.

Thinner monofilm is a problem on many sails.

1.5mm is the thinnest any sail maker should go,though 1.75mm is the strongest.

The more battens a sail has,the less likely the monofilm will blow out or tear.

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.

Storing a wet sail is the best way to reduce sail life.

madlad
WA, 111 posts
18 Apr 2017 2:50PM
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petermac33 said..
Nearly always a price to pay for lighter weight.

Thinner monofilm is a problem on many sails.

1.5mm is the thinnest any sail maker should go,though 1.75mm is the strongest.

The more battens a sail has,the less likely the monofilm will blow out or tear.

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.

Storing a wet sail is the best way to reduce sail life.


Yeah my sails are always dried before being put away. I am meticulous with my sail care and i havent fallen in on them. It just seems to be a design flaw or as you say, lighter material. Cheers for everyones input. :)

John340
QLD, 1640 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:23PM
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petermac33 said..

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.


What is the logic behind this???

djl070
WA, 264 posts
18 Apr 2017 3:25PM
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John340 said..


petermac33 said..

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.




What is the logic behind this???



It helps to rot your car out ...but your sails dry out

kato
VIC, 2074 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:28PM
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Why would storing away a wet sail reduce its life ???????. Fresh water maybe due to mould .

MrCranky
VIC, 479 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:33PM
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IMO, the only thing that helps sail longevity is not having them rigged (especially downhaul) and lying in the sun when not in use.

Sparky
WA, 543 posts
18 Apr 2017 4:29PM
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petermac33 said..
Nearly always a price to pay for lighter weight.

Thinner monofilm is a problem on many sails.

1.5mm is the thinnest any sail maker should go,though 1.75mm is the strongest.

The more battens a sail has,the less likely the monofilm will blow out or tear.

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.

Storing a wet sail is the best way to reduce sail life.


That would be a very heavy sail. Isn't it 0.15mm and 0.175mm? 150 and 175 microns?
AKA a bees dick?

Tardy
1718 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:05PM
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Sparky said..


petermac33 said..
Nearly always a price to pay for lighter weight.

Thinner monofilm is a problem on many sails.

1.5mm is the thinnest any sail maker should go,though 1.75mm is the strongest.

The more battens a sail has,the less likely the monofilm will blow out or tear.

In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.

Storing a wet sail is the best way to reduce sail life.




That would be a very heavy sail. Isn't it 0.15mm and 0.175mm? 150 and 175 microns?
AKA a bees dick?



Might even be a fleas dick ..
i go for scrim now a days .or netted mono .the older NP sails had better mono film .
what can I say ...yes they are lighter and weaker ..these days ..you are right MADLAD.
as you know I'm a ezzy dude now .
havent used sail tape for a while ..I still have a unused roll .i did have ..... Sails .
all I can say is ,its a shame .because NP sails are good sails ,but they need to look at longevity of
their sails too....
the performance of their sails are great .how much more would it cost for scrim ,or heavier film ?..?

One of my mates has left the NP sails because of this .you are not the only one ,disappointed .

Sparky
WA, 543 posts
18 Apr 2017 5:22PM
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They are generally weighted according to the sail range. People expect life from a freeride sail and strength from a wave sail so they will have heavier monofilm. NP race sails, like formula 1, will have lighter film and better performance at the compromise of longevity. I suppose people get peaved when the stitching isn't great and when your freeride sail doesn't last.

gavnwend
NSW, 860 posts
18 Apr 2017 9:24PM
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The toughest sail by far will be heavy .xply scrim sails are really good.my 2012 Avanti race sail is still in good nick.l would buy another one but a bit pricey plus you need to use their updated high end constant curve mast.

MrCranky
VIC, 479 posts
18 Apr 2017 10:08PM
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gavnwend said..
The toughest sail by far will be heavy .xply scrim sails are really good.my 2012 Avanti race sail is still in good nick.l would buy another one but a bit pricey plus you need to use their updated high end constant curve mast.


So the Unifiber chart is wrong again? Are they constant curve like North, or constant curve, trending towards stiff top like Severne?

madlad
WA, 111 posts
19 Apr 2017 9:32AM
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Sparky said..
They are generally weighted according to the sail range. People expect life from a freeride sail and strength from a wave sail so they will have heavier monofilm. NP race sails, like formula 1, will have lighter film and better performance at the compromise of longevity. I suppose people get peaved when the stitching isn't great and when your freeride sail doesn't last.


Yeah mine are freeride/freerace sails with a couple of cams, so i would have expected them to not just pull out from the bottom luff corner for no reason. If i had fallen in them fair enough, but nothing like that has happened so i think its just piss poor really..

masse
35 posts
21 Apr 2017 6:25PM
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gavnwend said..
The toughest sail by far will be heavy .xply scrim sails are really good.my 2012 Avanti race sail is still in good nick.l would buy another one but a bit pricey plus you need to use their updated high end constant curve mast.


Well, heavy xply scrim is actually not always the most durable solution. Film/laminate that is too thick will not give any durability improvements, many times the opposite. It also depends a lot on the construction of the actual scrim (distance, material) and how it connects to other parts of the sail.

I've seen sails with fairly solid xply scrim being completely ripped apart once they start tearing. And when the scrim tears up the film, the sail many times ends up being beyond repair. I would say that it is more about finding the right mix of thickness, scrim solution (material, distance, construction) with the knowledge of where and how to use it.

Personally, I have good experiences from sails that use the right mix of mono/scrim from a durability perspective, with more monofilm than many would think is good from a durability perspective but actually is if it is high quality film of the right thickness in the right places. And would also say that some of the very light sails we've seen the last couple of years might have gone a little bit too far in their weight saving ambitions. Even if I also love a light rig.

Captain_Morg
TAS, 609 posts
21 Apr 2017 8:58PM
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TASSIEROCKS said..
Buy Mauisails or Naish I have never had any issues like this at all in the last 30 years of windsurfing..

Cheers Russ


wildrover
WA, 57 posts
21 Apr 2017 7:00PM
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renewed my goyas this past season,
have hit them fairly hard, once with the harness with a huge dhud which resulted in a dent but no hole. strong , look good, easy to deal with manufacture. deffo a good option for me.
big tick

clarkee
WA, 155 posts
21 Apr 2017 7:19PM
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wildrover said..
renewed my goyas this past season,
have hit them fairly hard, once with the harness with a huge dhud which resulted in a dent but no hole. strong , look good, easy to deal with manufacture. deffo a good option for me.
big tick


There like boomerangs to when ya leave them at the beach they still come back to ya

philn
177 posts
21 Apr 2017 10:00PM
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Over the years I've owned Goya, HSM,Ezzy, Loft, Gaastra, Maui Sails, simmer, North Sails and one other brand which I won't name because it was the only one which was crap quality (it wasn't NP).

Currently i have HSM, Goya, North, and Simmer in my garage, with the HSM Firelight being the lightest and the North Volt being the heaviest. No idea which ones are the strongest as the Firelight is a well used but still going strong 2012, while the Volt is a 2016. I did put my harness hook through my 2016 Goya Banzai the first time I used it (totally my fault and any sail would have been damaged under the same circumstances).

Mastbender
1445 posts
22 Apr 2017 7:45AM
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petermac33 said..
In the winter after sailing I leave my sail in the car overnight,it helps it dry.
Storing a wet sail is the best way to reduce sail life.


I'll hang out after sailing and drink a beer before I de-rig, then the sail is at least mostly dry. I roll it up then throw it on a rack inside my van, keeping it off the floor. Also, no sail bags, they get in the way and there is no reason for them the way I have it set up, no bags equals no dampness. And when I sell a sail, it goes back into the sail bag which has never been used, looks brand new, so they think they are getting a really great deal,,,,,,,,,,,, on the bag anyway.
Oh yeah, and NBE (nothing but Ezzy) they last the longest for wave sailing.



Tardy
1718 posts
22 Apr 2017 8:58AM
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I stand mine up in the bags leaning against the trailer to let the water run out overnight ,after use
then straight back into the trailer .the only time mine are out of the bag is when I use them .
did wash them once ,but they went mouldy ,and was told fresh water rots the stitching .?...
I don't really believe that ..I reckon if your sails are left wet too long ,they may rot .or a excessively
hot car and wet would slowly bake them ...
suns and heat are your biggest killer .but you have to have a quality sail to start .

What's the life of a slalom sail,? .

had some that where stuffed after 7 years .
some still going after 12 .

boardsurfr
314 posts
22 Apr 2017 9:11AM
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Tardy said..
...did wash them once ,but they went mouldy ,and was told fresh water rots the stitching .?...
I don't really believe that ..I reckon if your sails are left wet too long ,they may rot .



It's true, though. When salt water dries partially, the salt concentration increases to levels that prevent anything from growing. Never had a problem with wet sails after ocean sailing, and my favorite sails often end up wet for months in a row.
On the other hand, when a sail washed with fresh water dries partially, the salt concentration remains a lot lower, and mold can grow perfectly fine on the damp material. So if you wash a sail with fresh water, make sure to dry it completely before storing it for any length of time.

Mastbender
1445 posts
23 Apr 2017 2:16AM
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I was told by a friend of mine who loves to sky dive, whenever a parachute enters the ocean, they make sure to rinse it off with fresh water and then dry it completely. He said that if they just let them dry out after being dunked in salt water, the salt crystals can cut into the stitching, weakening the chute, which does make sense. Of course that's a life dependent thing, and it didn't convince me to rinse off my salty sails, which I still don't do, I've never had stitching failure problems, and my air time is very low as compared to jumping out of an airplane.



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"Sail quality..." started by madlad