scheggia said..
Finally finished editing my back-to-back comparison of the 777 LTX 5.5 and Ozone Pocket Rocket V2 5.7. I tested them in around 15 kts, right in the Pocket Rocket’s range and at the lower end of the LTX’s. I originally went into the comparison focused mainly on upwind performance, but after going through the GPS data and switching between them, I realised the more interesting discussion was actually happening elsewhere. In my opinion, for a big parawing, packability and the whole stow/redeploy workflow can be just as important as pure upwind performance — especially when doing laps and repeated downwind runs. I’ve included GPS analysis, handling impressions, and a side-by-side look at packing/stowing in the video. Curious what you prioritize more in a big parawing: pure flying performance or how easy it is to get it out of the way once you’re on foil?

Scheggia it sounds like your trying to convince yourself your happy with your 777's despite what you have experienced.

There is one thing that does stand out to me in your dialog and that is the bar pressure. It scares me when you describe the V2 as light and the LTX as heavier. The V2 has what I would call very heavy bar pressure when correctly powered and pushing hard to the point i can barely hold the things when not in the harness. It makes no sense and if the LTX is noticeably heavier?
The V1 has significantly less bar pressure. I sort of feel like the bar pressure on the V2 is so high that its hard to imagine a beginner trying to manage it without the skill to get straight into the harness unless using a V2 well into the bottom half of its wind range.

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..
Finally finished editing my back-to-back comparison of the 777 LTX 5.5 and Ozone Pocket Rocket V2 5.7. I tested them in around 15 kts, right in the Pocket Rocket’s range and at the lower end of the LTX’s. I originally went into the comparison focused mainly on upwind performance, but after going through the GPS data and switching between them, I realised the more interesting discussion was actually happening elsewhere. In my opinion, for a big parawing, packability and the whole stow/redeploy workflow can be just as important as pure upwind performance — especially when doing laps and repeated downwind runs. I’ve included GPS analysis, handling impressions, and a side-by-side look at packing/stowing in the video. Curious what you prioritize more in a big parawing: pure flying performance or how easy it is to get it out of the way once you’re on foil?

Scheggia it sounds like your trying to convince yourself your happy with your 777's despite what you have experienced.

There is one thing that does stand out to me in your dialog and that is the bar pressure. It scares me when you describe the V2 as light and the LTX as heavier. The V2 has what I would call very heavy bar pressure when correctly powered and pushing hard to the point i can barely hold the things when not in the harness. It makes no sense and if the LTX is noticeably heavier?
The V1 has significantly less bar pressure. I sort of feel like the bar pressure on the V2 is so high that its hard to imagine a beginner trying to manage it without the skill to get straight into the harness unless using a V2 well into the bottom half of its wind range.

First of all, I totally agree that the bar pressure on the PR V1 was lower than on the V2, and with the V1 you could easily sail without a harness.
I think because of the way the 777s are designed, they pull more like a windsurf sail, where you can hang your weight on the harness and sheet in and out by pivoting around it. In terms of pure pull on the bar, when sailing without a harness, I think the LTX pulls harder than the PR V2. You can sail the PR V2 comfortably from the A-lines and the residual pull isn’t that crazy.
However, whenever I test something, I always ask myself one question: would I replace what I already have with what I’ve just tried?
And this time the answer was a clear NO, mostly because of the packing. In this size, the PR is just a nightmare to pack and stow. There are so many lines and so much canopy flying around that it makes the whole process unnecessarily complicated.
Maybe in the smaller sizes it isn’t nearly as much of an issue.

At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

You didn't talk much about wind range. Approximately what would you think your comfortable wind range would be with these?

Great video! Guess pr V2 has better low end?

Low end difference fairly well expected. Ranges are quite different on them.

PRv2 published range covers maybe 7-8 knots?:


LTX published range covers maybe 13 knots?:

I agree, and, when I see pretty different declarations on low end I tend to believe that going from one to the other will show that. Especially since these aren't v1 parawings from these companies.

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

I am just under your weight and riding similar very sized foils and board.

3.6m PR V1 13 knot test with 770R = a little less than ideal wind to test VMG.

15 Knots with a 5.7 PRv2 is pretty unnecessary. I am really powered on a 4.3 V2 and starting to think 3.6 if it is even slightly above 15 consistently. I can easily match your reviewed 5.7 PR VMG on a 4.3?
I don't know the the 777 LTX range but it sounds like you need the 5.5 in 15 knots as you say in the review you were on the bottom end of the wind range.
Now how would your review outcome change if you compare the 4.3 PRV2 with the 5.5LTX? How much nicer is a 4.3 to fly and pack up than a 5.5LTX?
People are spending big dollars on this stuff and we come here to try and minimize the bad decisions we have all made in the past. You guys have convinced that at the lighter end the hybrids and the LTX don't make sense but i had to read between the lines.

Look, where I live in Spain, around Barcelona, most of the time we’re dealing with winds around 10 kts. And yes, I know… parawinging in 10 kts is boring 😅
We’re also poor 😂 Nobody here wants to buy three parawings, a downwind board AND a midlength just to always have the perfect setup for the conditions. Most people want one board and one parawing that get them on the water as many days as possible.
I’m not sponsored, and pretty much all the testing we do is either with our own gear or stuff borrowed from friends. We do have a local shop that lets us demo 777 gear, which is why I have easier access to some of their stuff, but unfortunately I don’t have access to every size of every parawing to build the perfect comparison.
With our conditions, if I had to recommend one parawing to a friend here, it would definitely be a big one.
That’s exactly why the friend who lent me the PR V2 bought the 5.7.
I had his PR V2 5.7, I had my own LTX 5.5, so I rode them back to back and published what I found.
And my conclusions are actually very simple: they’re extremely close in upwind performance, the PR V2 is easier and more forgiving to fly, while the LTX is in a completely different league when it comes to packing and stowing.
That’s it.
Would a PR V2 4.3 be nicer to fly and easier to pack than the 5.7? Of course. Would it change the comparison? Probably. But a 4.3 won’t get a beginner going in 10 kts without a downwind board, and that’s the reality of the conditions and riders I’m testing this gear for.

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

I am just under your weight and riding similar very sized foils and board.

3.6m PR V1 13 knot test with 770R = a little less than ideal wind to test VMG.

15 Knots with a 5.7 PRv2 is pretty unnecessary. I am really powered on a 4.3 V2 and starting to think 3.6 if it is even slightly above 15 consistently. I can easily match your reviewed 5.7 PR VMG on a 4.3?
I don't know the the 777 LTX range but it sounds like you need the 5.5 in 15 knots as you say in the review you were on the bottom end of the wind range.
Now how would your review outcome change if you compare the 4.3 PRV2 with the 5.5LTX? How much nicer is a 4.3 to fly and pack up than a 5.5LTX?
People are spending big dollars on this stuff and we come here to try and minimize the bad decisions we have all made in the past. You guys have convinced that at the lighter end the hybrids and the LTX don't make sense but i had to read between the lines.

This is such a nonsense comment. Scheggia reviewed the 2 wings within their stated wind range. Just because you can get on foil with a handkerchief in a seagull fart doesn’t invalidate the review. Also if you’re so concerned about everyone getting the best most accurate information from the forums you should state your weight and height when giving out your wind ranges. Then normal full grown man size people can take that into consideration when evaluating the information your giving.

Just a comment on low end wind ranges. I believe these are always stated for a dry parawing. Trying to get a PR V2 5.7 to fly in 10 knots when soaking wet and sitting on your board ...... not exactly easy.

Youngbreezy said..

AnyBoard said..

Youngbreezy said..

AnyBoard said..

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

scheggia said..

AnyBoard said..

Pacoo said..
At 15 knt I will be on the PR V2 5m or even on the 4,3m comfortably. I do not think you are comparing the right sizes, which is part of the question: why use a 5.7 m if I can use a much smaller size?

Its a valid point and particularly when so much weight is given in a review to the stow. It largely depends on rider weight. I note scheggia reviewing a 3.6m PR v1 in only 13 knots in a previous review against a gong 4m so i would expect that he is not a heavy weight. Very good VMG can be maintained on a PRv2 in 15 knots by someone on a 4.3 up to maybe 78 kg on downwind foils. Maybe a 5m makes sense for up to 90 kg at 15 knots. My friend at well over 100kg seems to be well powered at 15 knots on a 5.7.
How much rider weight will the LTX pull and still make good VMG in 15 knots. Then you can compare apples for apples on the stow and comfort.

I'm 70 kg. When I compared the PR V1 against the Gong 4.0, I was on my 100L DW board and a downwind foil (770R). In this comparison I was on my 73L mid-length and a "surf" foil (850S). I started appreciating bigger parawings after trying the Skin 5.4. It gave me a lot more range with my smaller board and foil, while still packing really well. The LTX takes that concept even further: it packs even better, has better VMG throughout the range, loses a touch of low end, and gives you tons of high end. In fact, the more powered it gets, the better its VMG becomes. The PR V2 5.7 definitely gives you better VMG and a better overall range than the Skin 5.4, but for me it's still a nightmare to pack. Again, if I'd tested the PT-Skin 5.4 against the PR V2 5.7, I most probably wouldn't have decided to change my parawing. Same thing that I did after trying the PR v1, I just decided that it wasn't worth the change.... But as soon as I tried the LTX 5.5 against the Skin 5.4, I came home and placed an order. Exactly the same thing happened the first time I tried the 4.3 Hybrid during a demo: I came home and ordered one. For me, it's really that simple.

I am just under your weight and riding similar very sized foils and board.

3.6m PR V1 13 knot test with 770R = a little less than ideal wind to test VMG.

15 Knots with a 5.7 PRv2 is pretty unnecessary. I am really powered on a 4.3 V2 and starting to think 3.6 if it is even slightly above 15 consistently. I can easily match your reviewed 5.7 PR VMG on a 4.3?
I don't know the the 777 LTX range but it sounds like you need the 5.5 in 15 knots as you say in the review you were on the bottom end of the wind range.
Now how would your review outcome change if you compare the 4.3 PRV2 with the 5.5LTX? How much nicer is a 4.3 to fly and pack up than a 5.5LTX?
People are spending big dollars on this stuff and we come here to try and minimize the bad decisions we have all made in the past. You guys have convinced that at the lighter end the hybrids and the LTX don't make sense but i had to read between the lines.

This is such a nonsense comment. Scheggia reviewed the 2 wings within their stated wind range. Just because you can get on foil with a handkerchief in a seagull fart doesn’t invalidate the review. Also if you’re so concerned about everyone getting the best most accurate information from the forums you should state your weight and height when giving out your wind ranges. Then normal full grown man size people can take that into consideration when evaluating the information your giving.

Maybe you should have read a little deeper before posting rubbish. Scheggia and myself are nearly the same weight. That doesn’t put the 5.7 in its ideal wind range at all which he accepted.
If you think they will do the same job or even belong in the same wind range knock yourself out. A fool and his money are easily parted.

I was just pointing out that a review of 2 similar sized wings within their stated wind range is a valid review. Any informed reader knows they’re different wings with different abilities. The guys that are active on this forum are mostly doing it on a voluntary basis they don’t necessarily have access to every size or the time to test in every condition. The way your carrying on you sound like one of those guys that contacts free giveaways on marketplace and asks them for free delivery.

There was not one thing accurate in your comment to me and now you make insinuations on my character. You know nothing of me or who I am.

Again what you call a valid comparison is everything that is wrong with the foiling review space. What I call out you swallowed. I can’t change that.


Let us know how you get on with the 5.5 ltx.

lobodomar said..
@Scheggia

As already noted by others, the bar pressure on the PR V2 is definitely not light by average standards. I have a 5 and consider it to be heavy, much heavier than I would like it to be (bought it as soon as it was available without trying it out first).

In contrast, the bar pressure on my 777 Hybrid 4.3 is a delight. AoA control and micro adjustments are very "comfortable", both hooked-in and unhooked.

Since I've never flown the LTX, I'd like to ask how you compare its bar pressure to the Hybrid. This might help me understand your frame of reference and the probable impact of having less double-skin chord-wise.

The LTX has more bar pressure than the Hybrid, but it’s still really comfortable and easy to adjust the AoA. Both are really easy to sheet in and out and, in my opinion, much more precise than the PR V2.
I’m always hooked in, and I think part of that difference also comes from the single-point harness, which lets the bar “float” a little more.