scheggia said..
I'm just under 70 kg. I don't know if you'd consider that light, but I've had my LTX 5.5 flying pretty well in anything from 10 to 25 knots. Under 10 is when it starts to get a bit problematic, but honestly, below 10 knots I'd rather do something else than parawing anyway. On top of that, I prefer having a full quiver of hybrids so the handling stays consistent across all my parawings. I came from a 5.4 single-skin and a 4.3 Hybrid. The 5.4 was the parawing I used the most because conditions where I live tend to be on the lighter side. Every time I switched to the 4.3, I needed some time to adjust my handling. Now, with the LTX as my big wing, I can switch between wings without any real adjustment time. And at the other end of the range, I can take the 4.3 out in 30+ knots without any problem. For me, having similar handling across the whole quiver is worth much more than squeezing out a little extra low-end from the biggest size.

Do you have experience with the 3.1 hybrid as well? What is the range for you on the hybrids? I was not aware that the 4.3 was able to go up to 30+

scheggia said..

hudijudi said..

scheggia said..
I'm just under 70 kg. I don't know if you'd consider that light, but I've had my LTX 5.5 flying pretty well in anything from 10 to 25 knots. Under 10 is when it starts to get a bit problematic, but honestly, below 10 knots I'd rather do something else than parawing anyway. On top of that, I prefer having a full quiver of hybrids so the handling stays consistent across all my parawings. I came from a 5.4 single-skin and a 4.3 Hybrid. The 5.4 was the parawing I used the most because conditions where I live tend to be on the lighter side. Every time I switched to the 4.3, I needed some time to adjust my handling. Now, with the LTX as my big wing, I can switch between wings without any real adjustment time. And at the other end of the range, I can take the 4.3 out in 30+ knots without any problem. For me, having similar handling across the whole quiver is worth much more than squeezing out a little extra low-end from the biggest size.

Do you have experience with the 3.1 hybrid as well? What is the range for you on the hybrids? I was not aware that the 4.3 was able to go up to 30+

No, my smallest hybrid is the 4.3. We almost never have 30+ kts days where I leave and if I have a nuking day I'll just go SUP downwind. Ranges are huge. I'm confortable eith the LTX 5.5 from 10 to 25 kts and with the Hybrid 4.3 from 15 to 30. Reality is that when it's around 18 I switch to the Hybrid.

Thats mad! I have a 4.3 pt hybrid that I just got recently and haven’t used it yet( had one session on a friends 4.3 hybrid) the range of 15 to 30+ knots is epic, thats pretty much all the good days we have here in Perth. If you can hold yours at 30 knots at 70kg I should be able to manage it a bit higher than that at 105 kg. It might end up making my 3m PT skin redundant. Realistically for me I could be using it from 18 to 30-35 seems a bit hard to believe.


Sheggia do you think the 5.5 LTX has a bit less low end than the 5.4 PT skin? I am pretty happy with the range on the 5.4 it gets me going from about 12-15 up to about 20 knots which is good for our lighter days. I wouldn’t want to give up too much low end but if the 5.5 LTX is better packing and better upwind/ vmg that would make it a good upgrade.

Of course, the wind didn't stay the same from session 1 to session 2 today but it was horrendously gusty and I went back to back LTX 3.1 and BRM S3 2.7:



Starting to think the BRM has better low end and LTX has better top end. Both sessions felt like I was using the right parawing. Also, it seems like no matter what parawing I use, when my foil size is around 700 my VMG is always low 6's.

Both sessions on Code 720s with Flex 110 tail. One Ocean 78sss v2 mast.

BW could you show us a picture of you Code adapters on your One Ocean mast ?

Thanks BW I have that one ,I would love to see the code one also . Thanks

BWalnut said..
7.5 vmg with the 3.1 and 720 today which surprised me. So... VMG feels a bit unreliable for me, at least in the spots I ride. The 3.1m LTX ate up gusts today that people on 2.1m sails said were too much. Really happy with it. Going to try to focus on the review and getting that wrapped up ASAP.

It would be great to get to the bottom of what PW's pull what angles.

So far I have heard that the PT skin is not as good upwind as a v1 PR. I have seen pretty good angles posted by frigate riders. It now seems the LTX is not as good either but I do appreciate they have a wider range and provide a lot more comfort going upwind. I have seen some extraordinary angles from foilers on the BRM double but although I hear good things about the Hybrid 777 upwind I haven't seen anyone posting great angles for them either.

All this tells me that much better is possible from a new hybrid or double in the near future. Maybe PPC or maybe the new afterburner will break the single skin rules when it comes to VMG or upwind angles.

AnyBoard said..

BWalnut said..
7.5 vmg with the 3.1 and 720 today which surprised me. So... VMG feels a bit unreliable for me, at least in the spots I ride. The 3.1m LTX ate up gusts today that people on 2.1m sails said were too much. Really happy with it. Going to try to focus on the review and getting that wrapped up ASAP.

It would be great to get to the bottom of what PW's pull what angles.

So far I have heard that the PT skin is not as good upwind as a v1 PR. I have seen pretty good angles posted by frigate riders. It now seems the LTX is not as good either but I do appreciate they have a wider range and provide a lot more comfort going upwind. I have seen some extraordinary angles from foilers on the BRM double but although I hear good things about the Hybrid 777 upwind I haven't seen anyone posting great angles for them either.

All this tells me that much better is possible from a new hybrid or double in the near future. Maybe PPC or maybe the new afterburner will break the single skin rules when it comes to VMG or upwind angles.

you can check this out! I'm working right now on a series of videos with the LTX.... but in general LTX is slightly worse than the Hybrid, at least at the top end. LTX is slightly better (not by much really) of the Ozone PR V2....

AnyBoard said..
It would be great to get to the bottom of what PW's pull what angles.

So far I have heard that the PT skin is not as good upwind as a v1 PR. I have seen pretty good angles posted by frigate riders. It now seems the LTX is not as good either but I do appreciate they have a wider range and provide a lot more comfort going upwind. I have seen some extraordinary angles from foilers on the BRM double but although I hear good things about the Hybrid 777 upwind I haven't seen anyone posting great angles for them either.

All this tells me that much better is possible from a new hybrid or double in the near future. Maybe PPC or maybe the new afterburner will break the single skin rules when it comes to VMG or upwind angles.

For angles on a map, the Pocket Rockets are pretty amazing but there was a variety of issues with v1 and v2 (tangles on v1 vs too stiff lines and limited range on v2). The PT Skin doesn't have great angles, range, or comfort but has nice lines. The PT Hybrid has great angles and comfort, but normal double skin issues some people wont like. The LTX solves the Hybrid issues, but drops the angles. The Orbit may have great angles, no maps shared yet, but initial ride reports from locals complain about sharp lines, huge packing size, difficult to fly when using the PAL. I say all this just to point out that there's a lot happening in parawinging that isn't purely VMG and angles on a map. I don't want people to get too stuck on that. Totally support grinding on data to find what's best for any individual person, I love that, just want to make sure we remember there are some other fun elements that might be more valuable than finding the top upwind model.

What I've really learned from the last few weeks of looking at VMG is that it's not just the sail. It's the sail, rider, foil, conditions, etc. So, I think it may be useful to an individual for comparing their own setups and sharing which ones work best but I think there are too many factors impacting VMG to make it super useful from one rider in Australia in the ocean compared to another rider in the states in a river. I think that 1 person riding two sails back to back on the same day with the same kit is probably the most useful way to use it.

Here's my Hybrid angles on my first day out. Excellent IMO.

hilly said..
“The only time I am ever bummed is when I look at the GPS or try to put value in my ride based on a VMG score”. But you always do it 😂😂

Haha! Great point! I actually have never looked at VMG other than the last week or two. I just never thought it was especially important to me and I think checking it every session for the last few has kind of reinforced that. I'm glad for what I learned from those checks tho!

I think, at the end of the day, there are other attributes that I, personally put more value in. If those other attributes are the same on two parawings, the tie breaker would be the VMG for me.

BWalnut said..

AnyBoard said..
It would be great to get to the bottom of what PW's pull what angles.

So far I have heard that the PT skin is not as good upwind as a v1 PR. I have seen pretty good angles posted by frigate riders. It now seems the LTX is not as good either but I do appreciate they have a wider range and provide a lot more comfort going upwind. I have seen some extraordinary angles from foilers on the BRM double but although I hear good things about the Hybrid 777 upwind I haven't seen anyone posting great angles for them either.

All this tells me that much better is possible from a new hybrid or double in the near future. Maybe PPC or maybe the new afterburner will break the single skin rules when it comes to VMG or upwind angles.

For angles on a map, the Pocket Rockets are pretty amazing but there was a variety of issues with v1 and v2 (tangles on v1 vs too stiff lines and limited range on v2). The PT Skin doesn't have great angles, range, or comfort but has nice lines. The PT Hybrid has great angles and comfort, but normal double skin issues some people wont like. The LTX solves the Hybrid issues, but drops the angles. The Orbit may have great angles, no maps shared yet, but initial ride reports from locals complain about sharp lines, huge packing size, difficult to fly when using the PAL. I say all this just to point out that there's a lot happening in parawinging that isn't purely VMG and angles on a map. I don't want people to get too stuck on that. Totally support grinding on data to find what's best for any individual person, I love that, just want to make sure we remember there are some other fun elements that might be more valuable than finding the top upwind model.

What I've really learned from the last few weeks of looking at VMG is that it's not just the sail. It's the sail, rider, foil, conditions, etc. So, I think it may be useful to an individual for comparing their own setups and sharing which ones work best but I think there are too many factors impacting VMG to make it super useful from one rider in Australia in the ocean compared to another rider in the states in a river. I think that 1 person riding two sails back to back on the same day with the same kit is probably the most useful way to use it.

Here's my Hybrid angles on my first day out. Excellent IMO.

hilly said..
“The only time I am ever bummed is when I look at the GPS or try to put value in my ride based on a VMG score”. But you always do it 😂😂

Haha! Great point! I actually have never looked at VMG other than the last week or two. I just never thought it was especially important to me and I think checking it every session for the last few has kind of reinforced that. I'm glad for what I learned from those checks tho!

I think, at the end of the day, there are other attributes that I, personally put more value in. If those other attributes are the same on two parawings, the tie breaker would be the VMG for me.

I’d really like to hear your thoughts (and those of anyone who’s ridden them) on 2.7 S3 vs 3.1 Hybrid and 3.1 LTX and 2.7 and 3.5 Orbit for long upwind legs.
VMG, comfortable range on foil, and ease of starting with a small foil.
2.5 and 1.9 Frigates have served me well on the good days but wondering what’s next. 82kg, advanced rider, long upwind legs and riding 570 and 670 UHA when it’s on.

Awesome, cheers.
Any experience of the 2.5 Hybrid? We do get quite a few 35knot plus days.
The Hybrid is looming as the obvious choice for me. Orbit looks awesome, but will involve a wait for availability and quite a bit more coin …

Nice. From all I’ve read, I think I’d like the 2.5 also, as there are days when it would be in its sweet spot for VMG, while the 3.1, though probably manageable would be losing some control and angle.
On days where I’m maxing out my 570 foil, I’m covering ground downwind so fast that every scrap of upwind speed I can reclaim is valuable.

The Hybrid perform better (better VMG) and has more top end than the LTX, the LTX has better low end, packs better and it's more playful in general. In a 2.5 lines are already short and it packs small. Most probably I would chose the hybrid.

As I already said, for me in the bigger sizes I'll go LTX and small sizes Hybrid.

Finally, I've been able to end my LTX 5.5 review. Check it out and let me know what do you guys think!!

Cheers

-LCCRJUx39ZOOH3

BWalnut said..
A friend sent me some 2.5 hybrid angles from Maui:


vs my 2.4m day on the LTX in the Gorge:

Two different riders on different foils in different areas on different days so I take it with a grain of salt but... I think it's pretty obvious that in the 2.4 vs 2.5 size the hybrid is a beast if you are going upwind hard. It would be really interesting to do a 2.4 ltx vs 2.5 hybrid back to back test to feel the pros and cons.

Your friends hybrid angles are well less than I thought. Those angles are easily achieved on well powered PR or frigate. V1 single skins of course. Typical of what I have seen others post for the hybrid.
Your angles are also current assisted and are very ordinary.
it tells me that any talk of the ltx and hybrid being amazing upwind is in relation the the pt skin which is known to lag the PR and frigate in up wind angle and speed. The hybrid is pretty good but only comparable to the best v1 singles.

it seems the piaia is well ahead of the hybrid.
This is why pictures matter to me and talk on the reviews counts for little

scheggia said..
Finally, I've been able to end my LTX 5.5 review. Check it out and let me know what do you guys think!!

Cheers

-LCCRJUx39ZOOH3

Very nice.