i don't think the FD promises the world to anyone. i think the advantage of the FD is that it can work when nothing else will, e.g., not enough wind for any wind sports, not enough wave for interesting surfing. it certainly has got me on the water when nothing else would, and for that reason, it is a benefit to me. but there are also days when even the FD cannot turn nothing into something.

I tried the old tacklbox style foildrive for a few days years ago. The thing that bothered me is how it turned a nature experience into a motorsport. Some people don't care about this at all and that's fine. For me, the work and effort that has to go into learning how to work with the wind and swell was more satisfying than the trigger based endorphin injections. So, I sold mine after maybe 10 sessions and have never thought about it since.

Yeah anyone who is unhappy can post me one.

airsail said..
It’s really location dependent whether Foildrive works for you. Home for me is Moreton Bay, Brisbane, without FD many days would turn into none foiling days. If your blessed with wind over 15knots 365 day/year I understand bypassing the Foildrive, but although I love the para it is crap in anything below 15knots,
Here is my week ahead, the para’s will see no use so Foildrive only. Yes Foildrive is initially expensive, but for me actually the cheapest cost per session as I’m up around 300 FD sessions per , the other days are para.

Just bit the bullet on one based on exactly this forecast…

It will definitely not replace other disciplines for me but if it gets me out on the water 50 times over winter it will be worth it.

Youngbreezy said..
Foil drives are for old boys with cash to burn that are too old and unfit to prone/ sup in the surf or downwind.

Now I don’t criticise these old boys for doing it. A lot of the time they are having an absolute blast when they wouldn’t be able to otherwise.

And yes the majority of them are absolute dogs with zero surf/foil etiquette or recognition of the fact they’re on a motorised craft and are legally required to stay away from non motorised water users. Most of them have the funds available to fight the court case when they do eventually decapitate someone anyway so abiding by laws, etiquette or respect for the fellow human being is not high on their list but at least their having fun and good on them, thats all I’m saying!

Huge correlation between being over mid 50s and not caring about anyone/thing anymore 😂

Youngbreezy said..
Foil drives are for old boys with cash to burn that are too old and unfit to prone/ sup in the surf or downwind.

Now I don’t criticise these old boys for doing it. A lot of the time they are having an absolute blast when they wouldn’t be able to otherwise.

And yes the majority of them are absolute dogs with zero surf/foil etiquette or recognition of the fact they’re on a motorised craft and are legally required to stay away from non motorised water users. Most of them have the funds available to fight the court case when they do eventually decapitate someone anyway so abiding by laws, etiquette or respect for the fellow human being is not high on their list but at least their having fun and good on them, thats all I’m saying!

I feel bad for you. At my local spot the foil drivers are also talented wingers, parawingers, prone foilers and especially surfers. And many of them rip. For sure there always a few guys on the fringe doing stupid stuff. But to have your spot dominated by gangs of disrespectful geezers running circles around you must be so depressing. At least it gives you something to look forward to in your old age.

AnyBoard said..
Due to its weight, foildriving by nature is compromised in performance even for the very best prone foilers like James, Jeremy and Josh.
Due to this considerably lower performance level foildriving attracts a level of rider that the lower level of performance looks attractive to.
This mostly includes those trying to get competent at foiling in the waves without the time or patience to learn in other ways. It is now undeniable that for the most part foil drives have become the tool for greedy old buggers and kooks mostly.
Ask yourself would those pro foilers riding foil drives for promo actually buy one with their own money.
I am old myself and am part of the demographic for foil drives and I think they are a great temporary crutch but that is all. If you never throw away the crutch then your hamstrung for life. Yes I will probably get one when I am broken or over 70

I think what everyone gets wrong with mass generalisations like yours is that each discipline has its own use-case. Comparing prone to FD on a performance level is totally pointless. And there are Kooks in every discipline. Remember where the term originated. FD people are largely having a great time and aside from having no place on the lineup, I can’t see any other reason to bash them. Except out of jealousy.

Speedialer said..

AnyBoard said..
Due to its weight, foildriving by nature is compromised in performance even for the very best prone foilers like James, Jeremy and Josh.
Due to this considerably lower performance level foildriving attracts a level of rider that the lower level of performance looks attractive to.
This mostly includes those trying to get competent at foiling in the waves without the time or patience to learn in other ways. It is now undeniable that for the most part foil drives have become the tool for greedy old buggers and kooks mostly.
Ask yourself would those pro foilers riding foil drives for promo actually buy one with their own money.
I am old myself and am part of the demographic for foil drives and I think they are a great temporary crutch but that is all. If you never throw away the crutch then your hamstrung for life. Yes I will probably get one when I am broken or over 70

I think what everyone gets wrong with mass generalisations like yours is that each discipline has its own use-case. Comparing prone to FD on a performance level is totally pointless. And there are Kooks in every discipline. Remember where the term originated. FD people are largely having a great time and aside from having no place on the lineup, I can’t see any other reason to bash them. Except out of jealousy.

Its the marketing of the company that likes to compare prone with FD and after all that is exactly what they are marketing, a shortcut to proficient wave foiling. The term Kook is a comparative one and by nature foil drivers will be in this group when compared to other foilers. We must all be Kooks at one stage but most likely regularly if your an ambitious participant in life. Just be careful FD doesn't keep you there when it comes to wave foiling.

I have prone foiled since 2017 and am still a regular surfer. If i was Jealous i would just buy one but I am not old enough yet to accept that lower level of performance it would cost me. As I age, the equation will change but by then the plague will have made its impact in most populated areas. I have also watch just a few FD guys like the OP transition to their next step from foil drive.

The first foil drive annoying his mates on an isolated peak without surfers is having a great time maybe with a little tolerance from his friends. Fast forward to now with maybe 10 foil drivers on the same peak and the dream is over. Now none of them are getting that dream that they paid so much for. Exclusivity gone. I am watching this occur in my own demographic.

Ron54 said..

Speedialer said..

AnyBoard said..
Due to its weight, foildriving by nature is compromised in performance even for the very best prone foilers like James, Jeremy and Josh.
Due to this considerably lower performance level foildriving attracts a level of rider that the lower level of performance looks attractive to.
This mostly includes those trying to get competent at foiling in the waves without the time or patience to learn in other ways. It is now undeniable that for the most part foil drives have become the tool for greedy old buggers and kooks mostly.
Ask yourself would those pro foilers riding foil drives for promo actually buy one with their own money.
I am old myself and am part of the demographic for foil drives and I think they are a great temporary crutch but that is all. If you never throw away the crutch then your hamstrung for life. Yes I will probably get one when I am broken or over 70

I think what everyone gets wrong with mass generalisations like yours is that each discipline has its own use-case. Comparing prone to FD on a performance level is totally pointless. And there are Kooks in every discipline. Remember where the term originated. FD people are largely having a great time and aside from having no place on the lineup, I can’t see any other reason to bash them. Except out of jealousy.

I think it’s a great Aussie product,these guys should be applauded for the time and effort they put into making an Aussie first.These guys are evolving all the time new products,they get pros to make their product look good,it’s called advertising.lf it gets old guys like me with herniated disk ,unable to prone,back on the water,what is the problem .Most guys riding them on the far north coast,are young professional guys,doctors,lawyers etc,riding swell,pulling out before they get to the crowd.Then there are people like me who ride rivermouth, small waves having a blast in ****ty waves.Sure there are kooks,but that happens in life, either be polite and explain surf etiquette,or tell them to get ****ed.But don’t put down a great product,because it doesn’t suit your application or you think your to cool.I say again it’s an innovative Aussie invention that has its place and needs to be supported and applauded.Not the tall poppy syndrome

I don't think anyone is arguing that foil drive isn't a great product with very good use applications. I think the original post is more a reflection of what it isn't .


Its great if foil drive is getting you in the water despite your injuries and or age. That's just one of the very good use cases.

Speedialer said..
I feel bad for you. At my local spot the foil drivers are also talented wingers, parawingers, prone foilers and especially surfers. And many of them rip. For sure there always a few guys on the fringe doing stupid stuff. But to have your spot dominated by gangs of disrespectful geezers running circles around you must be so depressing. At least it gives you something to look forward to in your old age.

I just ordered my second Foil Drive kit (HP battery and motor + mini pod). I sold my first kit half a year ago, and my wave count and days on the water dropped immensly.

I've been foiling since 2018. Firstly SUP Foil, afterwards wing foiling and prone foiling, and a bit of DW foiling when I have the time (no so much because of logistics).

Before FD I could only SUP or prone foil in the Summer when the waves were very small (prone) or small to mid (SUP foil). Catching waves prone foiling is a nightmare because I need very specific conditions with easy take-off, whereas with SUP foiling I could catch steeper and bigger waves. With FD I could ride anything any time ofg the year, even big beach breaks; I would catch waves way outside I surfed them before they got more critical on the inside, and even better I was now able to surf on a spot right next to my house: a fishing harbour with a long right that would break for only a few meters but with long non-breaking wave faces. I could ride these waves during high tide on 6-8 ft swells that would otherwise be impossible to ride prone or sup foiling.
Even on the ****iest day I could ride any wave and catch dozens in just an hour, not worrying about crowds (always away from the surf crowd) and conditions. Sometimes, if conditions wre good I would SUP foil next.

I also did a few upwind to downwinds (not as long as regular downwinds because of the battery), and it was super fun and great practice for SUP foiling. Also did a few pump sessions, but FD is not that good for that. I could pump big wings for a good stretch but not the same as regular pump foiling (I'm not a pump foiler). I also use it when I'm holidays on flat spots as an efoil with a longer cable, doing carves and 8s and just having a general good time.

I'm super excited to be back more ofter in the water and I'm also planning on using it in my new parawing journey (if I drift too far, if the wind dies or if I have trouble lifting).

I sell FD in Portugal ever since Gen2 was released. I liked the idea of Gen1 but the drawbacks were way visible, but I jumped on board immediatly when Gen2 was annouced.

I also use it to tech people to foil (flat water), since it hepls new comers to balance quickly on the foil and get air time.

As for my costumers, I have a few really good foilers that use Foil Drive and some begginers or older people that bought FD and are progressing much faster than normal. Some of them wouldn't be able to foil if it wasn't for assist foiling.

Windybear, yeah I hear what you're saying. And for you, it's obviously the right choice.
For me, I love it. I've got one of the older gen ones (Assist +) and while there's a bit of gear envy in attempting to justify upgrading, I know it's not needed. I've had it for 3 years now and don't regret getting it at all.
As a muppet, I hear all of what others are saying. I'm old, lacking talent and want an easy pathway, and FD does it for me. I'm still trying to learn how to pump foil, catch and ride waves and just bomb round and keep skills up when there's no wind around. Big on ensuring that foil drivers don't get a bad reputation, so am very respectful towards other water users.
No doubt, there's a big push to get the newest and greatest. But as we can see by the varying comments, it's about what suits you and your local conditions. I agree, don't get sucked in by the hype. But also keep your mind open to what it can provide.

Not sure why this is in Wingfoiling Forum. FD would not annoy wingfoilers.

Great tool to have in your kit if you are not young, dumb and full of…… and can pump for Australia. Elitist argument - I am young fit and can do anything so I am better than you.

Same as emtb issue which now is settled with most new sales being emtb rather than analogue.


FD has opened up so many areas it actually might have thinned out the crowd at established breaks. If used responsibly it is amazing 😀

Seen plenty of machismo prone foilers pumping around and around surfers so not sure the pests are just electric.


Not sure the OP was having a go at FD or just celebrating learning enough from FD to be able to do it without assistance. Great for him if that was his aim.

hilly said..
Not sure why this is in Wingfoiling Forum. FD would not annoy wingfoilers.

Great tool to have in your kit if you are not young, dumb and full of…… and can pump for Australia. Elitist argument - I am young fit and can do anything so I am better than you.

Same as emtb issue which now is settled with most new sales being emtb rather than analogue.


FD has opened up so many areas it actually might have thinned out the crowd at established breaks. If used responsibly it is amazing 😀

Seen plenty of machismo prone foilers pumping around and around surfers so not sure the pests are just electric.


Not sure the OP was having a go at FD or just celebrating learning enough from FD to be able to do it without assistance. Great for him if that was his aim.

The OP author is back 😉 my aim was to share my experience and to show that FD is certainly not a good or best tool for every situation. As many subsequent posts said, it depends on the use case. And some use cases are very strong (surf foil or downwind with waves - no wind) while others are a lot weaker in my opinion especially as other tools have progressed and improved (eg parawing, pump scooter). . I just took a look at the FD website and yes it is marketing but it would have you believe that it is fabulous across all foiling disciplines. Just like you get parawing brand claiming their new v2 or v3 system is the best yet, people want to wait for real-world reviews because they know half of it is just marketing. My intention was just to try to add a tiny voice into the discussion by pointing out my experiences where I thought FD was not a great tool.


the comparison to eMTB is not a good one I think as they are totally different - eMTB are pretty silent, and they don’t pose an immediate additional danger to other participants, and they don’t fundamentally alter the access to spots because fitter non-eMTB riders can just as well ride all the same trails as eMTB riders can