Wetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.

The best one is the one used no where near other people in the water or surf lineup.

I also feel the constant challenges, learning experiences and mini victories that the multiple disciplines of non assisted foiling offer is one of the best things about foiling.

Ok now that's out of my system.

FD: If you want maximum assistance, realistically most users buzz around on them like an e-foil. You pay for it in weight and drag but it does it best from a power and battery life perspective.

Duotone: More suited to using as a chip in device and not constantly motoring around. Lighter board weight makes it feel a bit more like "pure foiling" Remote is a little tricky to get used to.

TowBoogie: It's your personal jetski. If you have a spot where you can safely use one this is the highest performance option as once you let go of the rope you're using a standard lightweight prone/tow setup.

That’s quite easy to answer as each of the three assists listed are suited to different conditions


Tow Boogie needs isolated areas, towing into offshore swells. Best in smooth conditions as it doesn’t handle chop well. It gives the closest feel to prone foil surfing. It is banned in some areas so check your local regulations.

Duotone Assist is good for true surf use, chipping onto a wave, ride it and then prone back out. Gets most of the weight off the board though it deposits it onto your waist. Runtime is more limited compared to Foildrive hence the requirement to prone out through the break.
Not particularly suited to upwind/downwind due to runtime and funky controller. Must use the Duotone mast.

Foildrive adds weight to the board, might be an issue. Great for upwind/downwind with a long runtime on the larger battery. Allows for constant foiling while surf riding with up to an hour on foil. Can be fitted to any mast/foil setup. Can be used in surf assist or efoil modes.

I think the time to be asking questions is early. If you are thinking of an assist, talk to your local crew and get your friends to be critical of it before you drop $$$$. Think about safety, visibility, access. Both for yourself and others.

are you using the presence of other foilers to improve your safety? Does your presence put their safety and more importantly ACCESS at risk?
understand that your getting something from them and it's probably not appropriate to also be adding that risk.

i think another part is also that with the boogie everyone - rider and others- wants it out of the surf zone ASAP so the booger is up and back out QUICK while the FD slums it with us some and chats and shoots the **** because they can hang and do so and equalizing socially makes a big difference.

beached57 said..
i think the original question was about which foil assist system was the best, not about safety issues. but let's face it, it's the rider, not the toy, that generally creates safety issues. any foil assist system (and any kite, surfboard, paddleboard, etc) can be dangerous (or just annoying) if not used in the proper way/proper place.

True but seeing as the companies making the sales have made very little to no effort in educating their customer base (I applaud towboogie for implementing restrictions) who generally wouldn't have the ability to access and be a safety issue in the lineup without all the assistance.

They are eating up the profits while us foilers who love this sport are at risk of losing it due to these riders and their "toy"

I'm not totally anti assist they have a use case but I am anti assist anywhere near a lineup. Time and time again users of the devices have proven they either have no idea or even worse are too selfish to put the health of the sport first.

If education and or regulations were implemented higher up in the food chain we wouldn't be put in this position where we have to "rant" for the sake of the bigger picture.

Worth saying that you can run a boogie and leave it completely out of the surf zone. Remember - auto follow is totally optional.

I'm blessed with a completely empty wave most days, but if there's other riders in the mix (usually foil drivers or SUP people) - I just get early on a wave, leave the boogie way out the back, and either pump back out to it or just suck it up and paddle back out.

This of course gives you total domination on wave choice - so be kind and give others first dibs.

Wetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.

One point - for a bigger guys in the 100kgs+ range, the FD1 is underpowered and the FD2 max is not much better. Based on a couple of batteries worth of goes with a reasonable size non-trench board. The Duotone has less power again. You really need quite a lot of wave power to get to foil take off speed with these. The 70kg guys can ride sexy little boards and hop straight up with a quick burst of throttle but they just aren't as suited to the bigger guys. For me the only contender would be FD Fusion or else jumping to high mount LIFT X.

zarb said..
Worth saying that you can run a boogie and leave it completely out of the surf zone. Remember - auto follow is totally optional.

I'm blessed with a completely empty wave most days, but if there's other riders in the mix (usually foil drivers or SUP people) - I just get early on a wave, leave the boogie way out the back, and either pump back out to it or just suck it up and paddle back out.

This of course gives you total domination on wave choice - so be kind and give others first dibs.

I own a boogie in NSW and this is what is causing massive problems at the moment. Police involved in the Newcastle region and Maritime have advised life guards there will be no warnings just straight up 1500 fine for using one full stop.

South coast have now also had Maritime involved in multiple incidents also. South west rocks also with a recent warning on the use of the boogie.

Don't ride you boogie if there are others out surfing or foiling even if you leave it out the back. Even if you are 200 meters away. For the future of the sport I wouldn't be riding it at all if the beach or region isn't deserted of people otherwise we will never get some sort of approval in NSW.

FD users have the same attitude that its ok around other surfers as long as they stay away 50 meters but this is also illegal and about to blow up and can only screw us all over.

Please use you assist products on non surfed beaches which is what they were designed for.

www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/waterways-safety-and-rules/emerging-technologies/remote-controlled-or-autonomous-towing-dronesSeems definitive about boogies in NSW.

KBGhost said..

Wetscotty said..
Dreaming of a foil assist of some kind. Wondering if anyone has experience with all three of the bigger ones and which one they preferred. Foildrive, TowBoogie or Duotone? Thanks.

One point - for a bigger guys in the 100kgs+ range, the FD1 is underpowered and the FD2 max is not much better. Based on a couple of batteries worth of goes with a reasonable size non-trench board. The Duotone has less power again. You really need quite a lot of wave power to get to foil take off speed with these. The 70kg guys can ride sexy little boards and hop straight up with a quick burst of throttle but they just aren't as suited to the bigger guys. For me the only contender would be FD Fusion or else jumping to high mount LIFT X.

Mate thanks for that. Atleast you didn't lecture me on ethics. I've been windsurfing, supping, surfing and foiling for thirty plus years so I know how to respect locals. The power thing is something I hadn't thought of. And at 95kg it could make a difference.

Hey Wetscotty, did you end up getting a powered foil?

I've been looking for a while and found everything was underpowered and tricky to look after

I ended up with a Manta Evo
Heaps of power , no maintenance and I can fly with the batteries

Build one yourself - it's about 25% of the cost of buying a branded one. The brands are all using the same off the shelf components you can buy from those same manufacturers.
If you have a 3D printer and can follow basic instructions then building one is by far the best approach - it really isn't that hard or complicated.

Currently in the process of building a FlipSky system - 6374 motor, FESC68 mini ESC, VX5 remote. Parts cost for those items is about 600 dollars and makes up the majority of the expense aside from the batteries.

MeonAsh said..
Build one yourself - it's about 25% of the cost of buying a branded one. The brands are all using the same off the shelf components you can buy from those same manufacturers.
If you have a 3D printer and can follow basic instructions then building one is by far the best approach - it really isn't that hard or complicated.

Currently in the process of building a FlipSky system - 6374 motor, FESC68 mini ESC, VX5 remote. Parts cost for those items is about 600 dollars and makes up the majority of the expense aside from the batteries.

Considering you can buy a very good used FD Max kit, often with 2 batteries for under A$5k trying to build your own is a bit pointless. Even if it works it has zero resale value unlike the FD unit, just money down the drain.

Do I prefer riding without my FD? Yes.
Does it let me go foiling when I wouldn't be able to otherwise? Also yes.

The use case really depends on your location.

Hi Wet Scotty. I just saw your message so I'm hoping you've started your Foil journey but if not maybe I can help by describing mine?
I started on a Takuma Carver Efoil but quickly grew tired of the weight and then the electronic speed controller failed and Takuma went into bankruptcy so I did my $10k. I was hooked by this time so I bought an early Foil Drive housebrick battery that velcroed to the deck of my board. This lasted 6 months before I bought a later Foil drive that fitted between the board and mast base. This lasted a year then I moved to a Manta TakeOff Flow system. Why? Because it had better technology and a longer battery run time with a controller I could read. Now I use a Manta Evo with an endurance battery. It's way lighter than the TakeOff Flow unit and the technology is even better plus the back up is excellent. I broke a prop hub and was delivered a new one in 2 days! For the back up alone I would go with Manta or Foil drive not one of the other brands. The controller used by Manta and the tow boogie is the same so it supports a host of great technology including track logs which offer you a record of your runs to share and provide a safety feature for others to see where you have been.. I do big KMs and hours with my gear and am the global leader in distance covered .so that alone is an endorsement of the robust nature of the gear. I'm not a pro nor am I a complete kook but I get out there every day and last track log I did 10kms and caught 42 waves with my longest ride being 162m. I'm 70years old with 2 prosthetic hips and a prosthetic shoulder and rheumatoid arthritis. I mainly Foil by myself if I'm not surfing with friends but generally I explore the coastline and Foil points and bombies that you can not access on a surfboard. There's no need to Foil any where near other people coz the types of waves we can Foil preclude most other watercraft. I mostly use my Evo with the motor in the Assist mode close to the board and try to get high enough to glide on waves and ocean swells with out using my battery. Sometimes I get 1.5 hours out of a 50 minute battery.The solitude and aesthetics of a Foiling day on the ocean appeal to me. .and I'm sure to most other Foilers. I hope my yarn gives you a push in the right direction. Cheers Hazard