Goofcat said..
If they can't even get the paint right, I'm wondering how much deviation each foil is from the design specs. My guess is that two foils of the same model and size will ride differently.
Indeed. Now understanding this sport bit more, seeing that changing 0.5degree angle of attack makes a big difference makes me wonder how close those foils I have received actually to the original design.
Below is how much extra paint/production leftovers F2000 had left AFTER I first put it on (with 2 screws, 3rd screw is impossible to put on both F2000). I.e. initially that was going on all the way up, just got compressed by the fuselage. Yet still about 1-2mm left. Sure making the angle of attack way off of what designers intended.
And here is F1400. I unfortunately didn't make photos "before". I just took a knife and removed it to make F1400 mount correctly to the fuselage (again maybe causing whole system not be as designer intended). Note this is F1400 which F4 sent me second time. With photos(!) showing how nicely all parts fit together. And F1400 was "attaching" but still needed all that fine tuning. And since F4 did a manual quality check, went through trouble of making and sending photos, then this is the current state of quality F4 is happy sending to customers. i.e. this is not a foil straight from a factory and somehow missed a quality control. Those were MANUALLY inspected by F4 and assembled by F4 with photos sent as a proof how nicely all fits together right before sending foils to me.
Of course those are "smallish" issues in the big picture of not being able to even attach F2000 foil with all 3 screws (reason this whole thread started), those are possible to fix at home. That is why I didn't mention those initially. Yet now all those issues add up now, making me wonder how close those foils are to what was actually designed, where else F4 saved in production of those freeride foils?
Windbot said..
I hope you can safely get your money back and move on..
F4 immediately offered money back once I contacted them. Money was never an issue. I actually kept asking F4: is this correct? Am I missing something? When issue got identified I kept asking: ok just simply send me a mechanically correct F2000. My biggest issue is: F4 was not able to solve the issue. Kept me out of water for 4 weeks. And potentially will be sending such foils to customers in the future. Seeing 2(!) F2000 foils sent to me with identical problem. F4 solution was: you either deal with this like everyone else "we have thousands of such foils out there" or we are happy to return the money. (and I did move on to 4 letter brand from NZ starting with A. Very very happy foiling now)
RAF142134 said..
I don't think that you will gain much unless you remain 'neutral' as F4 is a pretty respected company as far as I can tell
Well, "company" is many people, does a lot of things and over time. F4 might have earned respect and is great in some areas yet have issues in other areas. That is normal. Nobody is perfect. And things do change over time, sometimes for vorse. There is no point hiding issues. The more we as customers highlight and share issues (and successes) a company has the better it is for all. The company has a chance to take that feedback and improve. The customers have a chance to make little more educated choices. Like weight all those "paid/sponsored" reviews F4 is pushing in the Internet about this freeride kit. (which I actually watched, liked and was part of my decision to buy F4 foil F2000/F1400 kit. And a sign of "paid" is that 3 reviews I bumped on F2000 in youtube actually deleted my comments about my experience. I guess it is bad for their business of earning commission from sales. I really appreciate that seabreeze has much more open approach) vs experience of actual customers paying full price. How things actually get delivered, how long it takes, how things actually get assembled, how quality everything feels, how F4 support deals with issues and do we get to "yeah, there was an issue but F4 support solved it in no time, great, love it" or "there was an issue and F4 was not able to solve it, this is their current quality standard. Some accept it. Some don't and get money back". With that in mind I shared my experience of buying F4 foils freeride F2000 F1400 kit from F4 Europe. And everyone sure can make their own decisions.
AandJ, thanks for posting this, I have to agree with you, it's amazing that this foil could have such a fabrication issue, it's a pity that some companies don't invest more in building a better relationship with their customers, especially those who communicate in good faith, however it seems that in the sport customers have got used to working around these kind of problems because of the performance they can get from certain equipment, I use GoFoil and some aspects are like stone age, assembly, fitting, lining up, there are also lots of youtube videos, BUT I keep with it because I have so much fun (and the positives far outweigh the negatives). like AUS said you can send it back and be done with F4 or just take a good file / reamer to the hole and be done with it, but I do hope that the manufacturers make more effort to build better customer relationships. 
